Canary Smartphone 2002

[Ed Hansberry]

<a href="http://makeashorterlink.com/?C21915AF1">http://makeashorterlink.com/?C21915AF1</a><br /><br />Looks like HTC (the maker of the iPAQ) has <a href="https://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/oet/forms/reports/Search_Form.hts?fetchfrom=0&form=Generic_Search&mode=edit&show_records=50&grantee_code=NM8&product_code=CANARY">filed with the FCC</a> for approval on a new Smartphone 2002 - the Canary.<br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/hansberry/2002/20021002-canary.jpg" /><br /><br />Some basic info:<br />• Smartphone 2002 OS<br />• IR port<br />• SD/MMC slot<br />• Record button for voice notes and attachments<br />• SIM card - so this is GSM<br /><br />There is more info in the "Display Exhibits" link, including the 1.7MB user manual in PDF format. Thanks to Racer-X for the link. There is another picture in the forum - click the More link. &lt;!><br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/hansberry/2002/20021002-canaryfront.jpg" />

[medic119]

Ok.
All I want to know is when I can buy a Smartphone!!!
I have been waiting more than a year now!

[Arne Hess]

The Good
+ Smartphone 2002 OS
+ IR port
+ SD/MMC slot
+ SIM card - so this is GSM :D
+ GPRS

The Bad
- No Bluetooth
- No MMS

Unclear
* Can it be used as a modem for Notebooks too?

[Arne Hess]

I have been waiting more than a year now!
Please queue behind me, I've been waiting for it for 2 years now... :?

[Monty Gibson]

Can you install programs onto a "smartphone" as you can with a PPC? Do they have CF slots, etc?

Thanks,
Monty

[st63z]

I have been waiting more than a year now!
Please queue behind me, I've been waiting for it for 2 years now... :?

Na-ah, it's a LIFO waiting stack :D

Anyways, I wonder if MS will add the BT once they can implement a solution that fully conforms to their vision of its future direction (which the whole industry seems to be moving towards)?

Today's BT profiles and usages will undergo a major shift in paradigm, no?

[entropy1980]

Looks a lot like the Sendo smartphone no?

[Arne Hess]

Can you install programs onto a "smartphone" as you can with a PPC?
Yes, you can.
Do they have CF slots, etc?
It has a SD/MMC slot since CF would be to huge for a mobile phone...

[jmulder]

I have been waiting more than a year now!
Please queue behind me, I've been waiting for it for 2 years now... :?

Although I haven't been waiting quite that long, I feel your pain.

Frankly, I'm fed up with the whole MS Smartphone thing. I first heard about the SP a year ago, and at that time I saw pictures of what appeared to be a finished product (Sendo). Then about a month ago (after hearing that Sendo finally submitted their phone for FCC approval, I saw that Samsung had already received FCC approval, and their phone would be available from Verizon "shortly" (either Verizon doesn't know about this or they are unwilling to discuss future products with someone who may want to switch to their service :? ). Now I hear that HTC has submitted their SP for FCC approval (which should only take 3-6 months). Microsoft's SmartPhone site has had a lot of updates lately, but it went nearly six months without an update!

Meanwhile, I only heard about the Danger HipTop a couple of months ago and it went on sale yesterday (see T-Mobile). Maybe it's just been flying under my radar, and I understand it's a simpler device, but c'mon! 2 months for HipTop and 1+ years for SmartPhone! Not to mention cost...

For what it's worth, I've decided to get a T68 and a bluetooth CF card for my 568. At least it's available today...

-Jim

[medic119]

I have been waiting more than a year now!
Please queue behind me, I've been waiting for it for 2 years now... :?

LOL.. Has it really been that long?

[Monty Gibson]

Can you install programs onto a "smartphone" as you can with a PPC?
Yes, you can.
Do they have CF slots, etc?
It has a SD/MMC slot since CF would be to huge for a mobile phone...

Okay, is it SD I/O? I just don't see the benefit of having this phone over a PocketPC Phone.

Thanks,
Monty

[Arne Hess]

Okay, is it SD I/O?
Don't know...
I just don't see the benefit of having this phone over a PocketPC Phone.
Pocket PC Phone Edition = Data centric with Voice support
Smartphone 2002 = Voice centric with Data support

[ARW]

Has it only been 2 years that I've been waiting? I'm tempted to say that I'm fed up with the wait as well, but I think it's because I come from the computer world instead of the phone world, so I'll hold off and just try to appreciate the openness of computing versus the overly regulated and proprietary world of phones.

Currently my only fear is that we'll never see a CDMA SP2K2. Samsung has one, but it's not a guarantee that Verizon will accept it and it supposedly doesn't do AMPS, which is probably a deal killer for me.

I'd hate to go back to Palm, but the Kyo 7135 should be available within a months time and it would probably accomplish largely the same things as a SP2K2.

[Monty Gibson]

Okay, is it SD I/O?
Don't know...
I just don't see the benefit of having this phone over a PocketPC Phone.
Pocket PC Phone Edition = Data centric with Voice support
Smartphone 2002 = Voice centric with Data support


I see. Arne, pardon the stupid question that follows about the PocketPC Loox; but, does it have SIM card capabilities? I am sure that it has to in order to be a phone and to be compatible over here in the U.S. markets, correct?

Thanks,
Monty

[Dean]

I just downloaded the users manual. Looks like you will be able to use this as a modem for a notebook.
It also has the standard calendar, e-mail, contact, solitare, etc programs built in...apparently can play music.
133 Mhz Processor, GSM/GPRS TRIBAND
Built in stero sound jack
plug in SIM card
1000 MAH Lithium Ion battery

So...when can I get one???

[JMountford]

Here's the deal. We who want Smartphones from MS have been waiting for quite a while. And guess what we still are! In America CDMA is the most widely used frequency for wireless, yet all we even have to look forward to is Samsung's ugly brick Flip Phone. Don't get me wrong, I am at least glad we have an option. Problem is my carrier is Sprint PCS so I have to wait for at least a month after Verizon starts carrying the Samsung Before Sprint will have it.

What's worse is my sister works at Verizon in customer service and can't find so much as a fart about the Samsung Smartphone.

And what about GSM/GPRS phones? So far we have seen pics and specs for TI, Sendo, and now HTC. And I am sure I have seen or heard about Canary long ago, but what do I know? Any way these phones are not even close to an actual date. Meanwhile the markets keep getting worse and worse.

We do not even know if a single one of these Four Phones even has SD I/O!!! None have Bluetooth or WiFI. SO what the Hell are we sitting here going nuts about them for?

Well mainly because we are techies and the promise of something great is enough to hold us. But how much will we be dissapointed?

Probably more than we will admit.

So are Smartphones Smart? Not really. BUt we will keep waiting.

BTW for those of you who are new to the Smartphone thing or unsure what they are capable of here is a real quick run through.

All MS Smartphone devices are supposed to come with a way for them to connect to a computer as well as Active Sync. This is not supposed to be an accesory you have to buy seperately.

There are developers working on Smartphone Apps as we speak, (or type). These apps will probably hit the market long before the devices do. The devices will have memory for installing to, but not a lot. Expect around 16 meg 32 max. The ringtones are supposed to be wav which means that you could use anything and everything and make your own! There is no built in Office support only Outlook type things, like Contact, Appointments, notes, memos, and email. MS Smartphone also comes with a form of Internet Explorer. The screens on the devices will all be color, but not touch senitive, as the idea for Smartphone is one handed operation. (Don't ask what MS expects you to do with the other hand as right now we are taking it up the bumm waiting for the device.)

Ok well that is a brief runthrough. If I missed something sorry, but no one is paying me for my time so bite me. :wink:

Allright all have a good day.

[Paragon]

How "smart" can they be? Anything that takes this long to come to market can't be all that bright!

Dave

[Janak Parekh]

FWIW, most cell phones take ridiculous amounts of time-to-market. For example, the Motorola v.8160 took a year-and-a-half(!) between demo and it showing up in Verizon stores.

I wonder how the Pocket PC Phone got to market so quickly... or maybe it was conceived and developed very quietly?

--bdj

[brntcrsp]

We do know that at least one of the GSM Smartphones has SDIO.

Sendo has announced Bluetooth support for the Z100 Smartphone, which will be enabled by a plug-in module into the memory slot. The SDIO (Secure Digital Input/Output) card is a small expansion card, which allows wireless connectivity to a Bluetooth headset or Bluetooth enabled devices.


http://www.sendo.com/news/newsitem.asp?ID=58

[kaiden.1]

I was just over to the T-Mobile store to check out the PPC phone. It has some real querks. A friend of mine that works there who has been demo-ing the phone told me that he has to reset it about every other day because after a while it just boggs way down. We were thinking that maybe it's windows part is writing some kind of temp files or something when ever you make a lot of calls. But it just doesn't run very good after a lot of use. I had to wait literally 5 seconds after pressing the start button before it would launch?

I really think that the Smart phone is the way to go, if you want the phone combo. I know I wouldn't have the patience to deal with the PPC combo, not with what I saw and heard. I wonder if others have been having simular problems? :x

[pt]

I was just over to the T-Mobile store to check out the PPC phone. It has some real querks. A friend of mine that works there who has been demo-ing the phone told me that he has to reset it about every other day because after a while it just boggs way down. We were thinking that maybe it's windows part is writing some kind of temp files or something when ever you make a lot of calls. But it just doesn't run very good after a lot of use. I had to wait literally 5 seconds after pressing the start button before it would launch?

I really think that the Smart phone is the way to go, if you want the phone combo. I know I wouldn't have the patience to deal with the PPC combo, not with what I saw and heard. I wonder if others have been having simular problems? :x

they most likely don't have it configured right, installed some bad software, the usual fate of a demo unit.

i have one, it runs for weeks without a reset, it's solid.

cheers,
pt

[Paragon]

A friend of mine that works there who has been demo-ing the phone told me that he has to reset it about every other day

Geeez I reset mine at least everyday. It's kinda like having a shot of good Port everynight. It just clears out the fog. Who's to say the Smartphone won't be querky once it's out.

Dave

[ThomasC22]

Geeez I reset mine at least everyday. It's kinda like having a shot of good Port everynight. It just clears out the fog. Who's to say the Smartphone won't be querky once it's out.

Dave

Well, and I don't know how true this is, but Microsoft's claim has always been that the Smartphone 2002 (then Stinger) was taking so long because they were bug testing it because "people are less inclined to put up with their cell phones crashing".

Being that MS has had working prototypes for over a year and a half (maybe more) I'm inclined to believe that it has been well tested (or atleast I hope)

[Paragon]

If they have been testing working models for 1 1/2 years and haven't released it that tells me they are still testing it.......they still don't have the bugs out of it yet. :roll:

Not a good sign!

Dave

[Rob Alexander]

Well, and I don't know how true this is, but Microsoft's claim has always been that the Smartphone 2002 (then Stinger) was taking so long because they were bug testing it because "people are less inclined to put up with their cell phones crashing".

Am I the only one who is disturbed at a quote that says MS thinks we are less inclined to put up with our phones crashing? :? Thanks but no thanks. My Nokia has never crashed. I don't want a phone that crashes less than my computer. I want a phone that doesn't crash at all. If they're not even trying to reach that goal, then I don't want one at all.

[Daniel]

I've played with one of the prototypes, they have a long way to go I can tell you that much! The UI is weird, the buttons are in the wrong place and change around depending on what screen you're in. By that I mean that the buttons (sometimes) perform opposite functions when you change screens so you have to move your hands around a lot and you often cancel when you meant to select & stuff like that. I hope that MS and their SP partners sort this kind of stuff out or the SP will quickly become the "StupidPhone" once it hits the streets.
I will not buy any kind of smart phone device unless it has BlueTooth, I don't know about everyone else but I use BT a lot, I don't want to have to carry annoying cables all the time. Despite reports to the contrary I have had no issues with different manufacturers products communicating, it all just works.
The one nasty flaw in BT is that when you go out of range everything stops, that is fine but when I come back into range I have to manually tell my PC that I am back. That just seems silly to me, I think ISVs should be writing software that polls for paired devices at configurable intervals.
I want a smart phone but am seriously thinking about the P800 (if it ever comes out) or maybe a Nokia. They have BT and expansion although I think I saw somewhere the other day that the P800 will have Memory Stick! Someone please correct me! I'm not going to wait for the SmartPhone to get out of pergatory for ever!

Daniel

[Wuss912]

Well, and I don't know how true this is, but Microsoft's claim has always been that the Smartphone 2002 (then Stinger) was taking so long because they were bug testing it because "people are less inclined to put up with their cell phones crashing".

Am I the only one who is disturbed at a quote that says MS thinks we are less inclined to put up with our phones crashing? :? Thanks but no thanks. My Nokia has never crashed. I don't want a phone that crashes less than my computer. I want a phone that doesn't crash at all. If they're not even trying to reach that goal, then I don't want one at all.

my siemens s40 locks up sometimes.
but it sounds like you dont have any tolerance for your phone locking up. just like most people

[Brad Adrian]

Please queue behind me, I've been waiting for it for 2 years now... :?
Yep, Arne. Remember when we held that first prototype in our hands in September 2000? Who would have thought it would take this long?

[Arne Hess]

Yep, Arne. Remember when we held that first prototype in our hands in September 2000? Who would have thought it would take this long?
That's what I was talking about... The sample in September and since this days I'm not dreaming of a white Christmas anymore but about a Smartphone 2002 in my hands...
Maybe we are lucky (at least here in Germany/Europe) and we will hold a SMP 2002 on white Christmas in the hands... ;-)

Why I'm hoping for it? Because this story here: RUMOR: Microsoft wants to release Smartphone 2002 before Christmas this year (http://www.ppcw.net/stories.php?story=02/09/06/0477334)

[AhuhX]

Am I the only one who is disturbed at a quote that says MS thinks we are less inclined to put up with our phones crashing? :? Thanks but no thanks. My Nokia has never crashed.

You have been lucky then. I used to have one of those old clunker Nokia 6210's? and that crashed. I now have an 8210 which I absolutely love, but it has also crashed.

It was really weird when it crashed too. Everything kept going, but it refused to receive a signal or acknowledge then network. Eventually it dawned on me to just switch it off and back on again. You get so used to them working that I went into cognitive dissonance and refused to acknowledge it just needed a reboot! :)

[Scott R]

Well, and I don't know how true this is, but Microsoft's claim has always been that the Smartphone 2002 (then Stinger) was taking so long because they were bug testing it because "people are less inclined to put up with their cell phones crashing".
Well, that explains why it's taking so long. MS doesn't have much in-house testing expertise. They probably had to go outside the company to get qualified testers. ;)

Scott

[Rob Alexander]

Am I the only one who is disturbed at a quote that says MS thinks we are less inclined to put up with our phones crashing? :? Thanks but no thanks. My Nokia has never crashed.

You have been lucky then. I used to have one of those old clunker Nokia 6210's? and that crashed. I now have an 8210 which I absolutely love, but it has also crashed.

It was really weird when it crashed too. Everything kept going, but it refused to receive a signal or acknowledge then network. Eventually it dawned on me to just switch it off and back on again. You get so used to them working that I went into cognitive dissonance and refused to acknowledge it just needed a reboot! :)

Wow, I had no idea this was common. 8O I wouldn't even have known what a crash on my phone looked like until you told me. My Nokia 8250 has never crashed and the only time my previous Errikson did, it was not so much crashed as dead (i.e. needed the repair shop). Wuss912 is right, though, I tolerate crashing on the computer because I understand the variety of things I'm throwing at it with lots of programs written by different people. But my phone is a dedicated device with specific hardware and software completely controlled by the manufacturer. There's no excuse for it to crash and I'd quickly rid myself of one that did.

And that's where I get concerned about the SP concept. I accept that it may crash sometimes because you'll be able to load and run programs so the manufacturer doesn't have complete control. But MS's benchmark of what they're trying to achieve shouldn't be 'crashing less than a PC', it should be not crashing at all. You'll rarely achieve more than the goals you've set, so the goal should be set high. For me, it's the same old story. I don't want to run applications on my phone. Just give me a solid GPRS Bluetooth phone and a nice Bluetooth PPC and I'll be happy. My phone can do its phone thing and my PPC can do the rest. (Not happy now because GPRS costs so darn much here! :cry: )

[tewmgd]

Orange will lanch a HTC phone by the end of the year in UK and in the following months in the rest of Europe, seems it can be Canary ?

http://news.com.com/2100-1033-960796.html

Matthieu

[fsnoles]

You can install programs only if you have a digital certificate that the phone (and the provider) allows. For instance, I believe the Orange phone is "locked down" and you must get programs from Orange.


Can you install programs onto a "smartphone" as you can with a PPC?
Yes, you can.
Do they have CF slots, etc?
It has a SD/MMC slot since CF would be to huge for a mobile phone...