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View Full Version : Is The Virtual Keyboard Finally A Reality?


Brad Adrian
09-19-2002, 07:01 AM
<a href="http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,539778,00.asp">http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,539778,00.asp</a><br /><br />Here's an ExtremeTech article that provides a few more details about the Canesta "Virtual Keyboard" that was first hyped back in March. It sounds like a pretty snazzy product, but I'm still a bit skeptical about whether it will ever actually reach production.<br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/adrian/virtualkey.jpg" /><br /><br />The concept is that a chipset projects an image of a keyboard onto a flat surface and then detects finger movements, translating them into keystrokes. The developers admit that there is a learning curve involved for users, especially for touch-typists. They also claim that an experienced user can reach typing speeds of up to 80 words per minute.<br /><br />Impressive, huh? Take a look at the rest of the article and let me know how excited you think we should be about this.

JonnoB
09-19-2002, 08:02 AM
The link is broken, try this (http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,539778,00.asp) instead.

One of the recently-hired persons on my team was in management consulting prior to her current position in my group and was working on this project. She said the technology is real, but they needed help marketing the solution and they were agressively getting help. I would say that this is really going to happen. I need my tactile feedback of a real keyboard, but I guess someone could get used to this in a pinch.

CoffeeKid
09-19-2002, 09:05 AM
Colour me a skeptic...

I type about 95wpm on a thinkpad keyboard, about 90wpm on a logitech desktop keyboard (says something about the quality of thinkpads), and about 75wpm on a stowaway. I'd be faster, but the driver for the stowaway for the iPaq blows - lots of lag time and missed keystrokes.

I tried the belkin, and my mistake ratio was very high. I've tried the keyboard on a Fujitsu P1000 and ditto (it's smaller than the belkin layout).

But at least all of these keys have tactile feedback. I'm fairly convinced that 80wpm on that hologram keyboard is next to impossible... at least for touch typists, but I think for anyone really...

Then again, I've seen some RIM users who just fly though that thing, only with thumbs... :)

Mark

nwarren
09-19-2002, 09:57 AM
Is this really best marketed at 'touch typists' ? I'd have thought more PDAs are in the hands of the 'look & peck' crowd.

Touch typing also 'implies' high volume, but PDAs were never designed to be high volume input devices.

If this technology works, I'd expect to see this hit the add on full-size keyboard market quite significantly. Most of the PDA users would probably be happy to achieve 20-30 wpm, and if they don't need to carry around any extra hardware to achieve this, then it's a no-brainer.

I'm not holding my breath, but I am on the edge of my seat with interest!!

Ravenswing
09-19-2002, 11:20 AM
They demoed the prototype of this on Tomorrow's World (UK technology program, for those not in the know) about 6 months ago. It worked (which is novel for TW, noted for it's attempts to demo voice control systems and other goodies way before they were ready).

It's a neat idea until you start thinking about the problems.

You need just as much space as a real keyboard, a flat surface at that so you can't use it on your lap and airplane fold-down tables are likely to be a bit cramped. You save carrying extra weight and an extra box, but the power consumption is likely to be, well, not low.

Touch typists are going to loathe it. No key feel, and you'd have to be quite careful about finger positioning. I don't think 80 words per minute is anything to write home about, but it's a while since my sister did RSA typing.

I think it's more of a novelty than a useful tool, rather like voice controlled word processor software.

Ravenswing
09-19-2002, 11:22 AM
Then again, I've seen some RIM users who just fly though that thing, only with thumbs... :)

You know the Japenese are calling their kids the Thumb Generation :?

sponge
09-19-2002, 11:25 AM
Note: Tomorrow's World is also on TechTV: http://www.techtv.com/tw
You could probably find it by searching for there.

One thing that bothers me is the mockup pic, or at least, why is the beam coming out of the iPaq's body. But it doesn't seem to be vapourous.. so meh.

sheik
09-19-2002, 01:23 PM
It is a shame that the image of the keyboard is projected using an etched lens. If they had the technology to project a dynamic image then this could be a very cool interface method.
For a start, the input system could be customised to your heart's (or hands'!) content.
You could then have different layouts to suit your current task. Large up and down arrows for scrolling, a glidepad for mouse movement, giant numeric pad and arrows for spreadsheet work etc.
Extrapolating further, there is no reason why you couldn't project some of the user's output too. It might be nice to see the line of text you are typing appear on the desk just above your hands. This would be a very comfortable way of working for some writers.

I realise these ideas aren't particularly practical now due to technology and power limitations - but it is nice to speculate about what we'll be using in a few years!

Paragon
09-19-2002, 02:14 PM
I think that this is one of the products that we too quickly judge it based on what it is today. Not on what it's potential is.

I think the potential for this product is very good. How many people out there use a keyboard with their PDA? How many think it's a PITA carring this thing around, unfolding it, plugging it in.....

I feel quite confident that the developers of this product will be able to bring a version to market that we will all be very glad to use. Just let them fool with it for a bit, and see what they come up with.

Dave

Brad Adrian
09-19-2002, 03:17 PM
I feel quite confident that the developers of this product will be able to bring a version to market...
Sure, I'm not necessarily saying that this will never come to market, but there's been enough hype about it that I am very leery of their timeline. This is at least two years away from regular production, IMO.

Paragon
09-19-2002, 03:24 PM
Do you like the idea though Brad?. Do you see it working and being excepted?
Dave

bblock
09-19-2002, 05:03 PM
I wonder how the image will project from a typical PDA, if it's built-in? Will all the PDAs have kickstands now?

I think I could get used to it, although I can see the error rate (I'm around 85 WPM) going up.

Jason Dunn
09-19-2002, 05:44 PM
I think this is a great idea, but consider the hurdles they have to overcome in getting it adopted:

1) Body redesign by OEMs to include an IR projector
2) Body redesign by OEMs to include a way to keep the device standing up, but also at an angel so the screen can be seen
3) Support from Microsoft at the OS level (which the Stowaway keyboard still doesn't have in perfect form)

I don't think we'll see this for several years yet, and I'm not sure the company will last that long.

BrianCooksey
09-19-2002, 06:29 PM
I have to say I would rather have this than lugging around one more accessory. My objection is that by the time I start carrying lots of sleeves (depending on purpose), keyboards, CF wireless NICs, etc. for a trip of any duration, it's like bringing a second laptop along...

I've occasionally wondered while watching a fictional character type on a non-tactile surface if I could do it productively. After playing various forms of musical keyboards, I think the answer is yes, especially if I can establish some sort of "home" position reference for the hands...

So what other applications do you guys see for this technology besides PPC? I suspect there are probably some "killer", but they just haven't registered metally yet...

BrianCooksey
09-19-2002, 06:32 PM
I like this as an alternative to the full-screen previously keyboard mentioned here.

If you have the option (luxury?) of a flat surface, this still lets you see the app to which you're inputting...

Lotto
09-19-2002, 07:26 PM
I think battery life is gonna suffer bigtime! They are going to have to beef it up soon.

mcsouth
09-19-2002, 07:57 PM
Some people have mentioned the tactile feedback of a real keyboard that you would miss - what about the possibility of very real injury to your fingers and joints, due to "typing" against a solid, non-giving surface? Let's face it....a good keyboard with good tactile feedback cushions the force of your fingers, so that you can type for quite a while without strain in your hands and wrists - no chance of that here. Most keyboards also have some slope to them as well - heck, my wife insists on using a MS Natural keyboard at home, to provide better hand position while typing.

I could see this being an alternative for quickly keying in contact information, a quick memo, etc, but I'm not sure how practical it would be from a confort and health standpoint for extended text entry. And if quick text entry is all you need, the thumb keyboards seem to fill that niche already.

Interesting use of technology, but I'm not convinced of its practicality.

Marcel_Proust
09-19-2002, 10:04 PM
this is interesting but a bit pie in the sky and unclear if usable. i say go for it.
but please, please, i hope some companies are listening - none of the new generation of pocketpc and phone pocketpc whatever they are called have good keyboards. we need some more form factors - like the

hp 565/567/568 - the greatest ever!
the zaurus keyboard (great design - not the best quality)
that sony (flashy design! god only knows the model number they change them so quickly)
treo (a bit too tiny)
RIM (the one that started it all and prob still the standard)

I see nothing like this in the new PocketPC batch. They are missing a market. Can you hear me Toshiba.

Wasp
09-19-2002, 10:19 PM
I have a Targus Stowaway for my Jornada. Its compact when not used and can work on an airplane table. It has minimal impact on my Battery. I haven't seen the speed issue, but I am probably a much slower typist. To me, this is the real product. If the Driver has isssues, fix the driver.

I also had the thumbpad keyboard for a Jornada. I was less than impressed with that product. The buttons were very small and I never could type quickly with it. I ended up using Fitaly to type instead of it. The thumbpad keyboard also covered up my shortcuts buttons.

This product is cute but not particularly useful. If I need a large flat space to use it, I now start to have portability issues. I got the super-sized battery pack for my Jornada in order to have a nice long PDA life. This product will probably drain it in an hour.

Jonathon Watkins
09-19-2002, 11:43 PM
What would be nice in a few years would be positional gloves with bio-feeback and built in Bluetooth. I.e. I type in mid-air and get the feeling of hitting keys while the info is sent staight to the PPC.

Positional gloves are around at the moment but are a bit bulky and clunky.

Imputting anywhere would be nice, though the gloves would have to be light. Maybe a ring on each finger would do the job too and be lighter. This could be a universal input method for PC and PPC as well.

Marcel_Proust
09-20-2002, 03:19 AM
What would be nice in a few years would be positional gloves with bio-feeback and built in Bluetooth. I.e. I type in mid-air and get the feeling of hitting keys while the info is sent staight to the PPC.

Positional gloves are around at the moment but are a bit bulky and clunky.

Imputting anywhere would be nice, though the gloves would have to be light. Maybe a ring on each finger would do the job too and be lighter. This could be a universal input method for PC and PPC as well.

i would hold off buying until xmas 2012 for the direct neural interface if i were you.

byancey
09-20-2002, 07:49 PM
I've occasionally wondered while watching a fictional character type on a non-tactile surface if I could do it productively. After playing various forms of musical keyboards, I think the answer is yes, especially if I can establish some sort of "home" position reference for the hands...



Actually, this is where this keboard may have a real advantage for a touch-typist. When I type, I don't need to see the entire keyboard. I simply need to know where home keys 'F' and 'J' are located, and the rest takes care of itself.

As such, it seems to me that a significant amount of power savings could be gained simply by having an option to project just a dot for F and a dot for J rather than projecting the entire keyboard. Granted, without tactile feedback, I image this would take some getting used to, but it seems do-able. I've typed on membrane keyboards with very little tactile feedback without having any real problems.

--
Bryce

Jonathon Watkins
09-20-2002, 09:01 PM
What would be nice in a few years would be positional gloves with bio-feeback and built in Bluetooth. I.e. I type in mid-air and get the feeling of hitting keys while the info is sent staight to the PPC.

Positional gloves are around at the moment but are a bit bulky and clunky.

Imputting anywhere would be nice, though the gloves would have to be light. Maybe a ring on each finger would do the job too and be lighter. This could be a universal input method for PC and PPC as well.

i would hold off buying until xmas 2012 for the direct neural interface if i were you.
It all depends on the location of the interface. :wink: I have heard good things about the telepathic interface sheduled for fall of 2015!

Godsongz
09-20-2002, 10:03 PM
I could see this being an alternative for quickly keying in contact information, a quick memo, etc, but I'm not sure how practical it would be from a confort and health standpoint for extended text entry. And if quick text entry is all you need, the thumb keyboards seem to fill that niche already.

How much extended text entry do you do with your Pocket PC? I know I do very little. Contact info and such most of the time. Once in a while I'll use my iPaq to takes note during a class and something like this might come in handy. I don't personally like thumb keyboards, they may fill the niche but only until a better solution presents itself.

I'm not entirely conviced this is it though. I'm a hunt 'n peck typist and probably always will be. I type with 6 fingers and the other 4 just watch. My biggest problem with a solution like this one is that my fingers would always be blocking the projection of keys closer to me and I'd have to keep lifting my hands out of the projection area to find the next key to tap.