Smartphones to trump PDA Phones?

[Ed Hansberry]

<a href="http://techupdate.zdnet.com/techupdate/stories/main/0,14179,2878099,00.html">http://techupdate.zdnet.com/techupdate/stories/main/0,14179,2878099,00.html</a><br /><br />This has been going through my mind since I saw my first Stinger prototype back in late 2000. What do I want? For a PDA to be useful, it has to have a screen large enough to use. 320X240 is about as small as you can go realistically. But that means a 3 inch screen and that mandates a pretty large device when compared to a cell phone. Foo Fighter sends in this link that seems to be right on point with my personal concerns about an all in one device. The Pocket PC Phone is not for everyone, no more than a Pocket PC + cell phone is right for everyone. This report projects that ultimately, smartphones will outnumber wireless PDAs by a 2:1 margin in 2006.<br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/hansberry/sendoz100.jpg" /><br />What do you think? I sort of feel like the odd man out not having or desperately seeking the T-Mobile Pocket PC Phone. Personally, I crave a bluetooth enabled Smartphone 2002 device that I can slip in my pocket but still use to get my iPAQ online when I want to do some heavy duty lifting. I'll probably be in the two device camp for some time to come.

[JMountford]

I am right there with you Ed.

[splintercell]

Right on. A smartphone with pim and unified messaging capability, a storage card slot and either built-in or add-on Bluetooth.

[CTSLICK]

I am with you as well Ed. Recently made the decision to pass on the T-Mobile PPC/Phone in favor of the bluetooth enabled T68. Call it a positioning move while I search for the perfect bluetooth enabled PocketPC. Bottom line, I carry my cell phone ALL the time therefore I wanted it to be small but "connectable" with my PDA. I am actually working on the process needed to keep my calendar and tasks synched up on my PDA and my cell phone. That way I always have my calendar and tasks with me no matter what device I have with me.

[ThomasC22]

I've been thinking the same thing as you for some time now for several reasons...

1 - I like to be able to look at my PDA while I'm on the Cell. Phone. Be it to play games or browse data if I'm on a long call I generally look to my PDA for distraction which is something I'm not able to do if its up to my ear.

2 - Ideally, I like the idea of seperate devices having separate batteries. Which means more talk time and more PDA time for me.

3 - I...and I know this might be a shocker to some...actually leave my PDA at home some of the time (mostly at the Gym) and would still like to have my phone with me.

4 - I can't think of anything that a PDA/Phone CAN do that a Bluetooth enabled PDA + a Bluetooth enabled phone CAN'T do.

5 - I like my phones small and my PDA screens big.

6 - Touchscreens break easily, cell phone screens don't.

7 - I like number pads on my cell phone. And that is PHYSICAL number pads, not on screen ones AND for that matter not ones that are attached to whole thumb keyboards. I just want a regular, run of the mill, 12 key numberpad.

I think thats my list for now, all that being said, being that I don't really know of any bluetooth phone currently available to me I may have to settle for a convergent device sometime in the future (I'm currently using my new Samsung A500 with my Toshiba e740 but really want Internet on the go).

[mikeschmidt]

I would have to see the software on the Smartphone. I don't want to carry devices that are too similar. I would feel stupid keeping the contacts/calendar/tasks sync'd between 2 devices I would have with me most of the time.

Currently, the Laptop/PDA/phone combination is a good division for me. (With bluetooth between)

Of course with ever increasing power and features there are people who use their PDA instead of their laptop and I am sure there will be people using their Smartphones instead of the PDAs.

As the cameras improve on these devices I think we can throw the family camera into the convergence mix.

If I bought a Smartphone, I would probably sell my PDA and invest in a mini-laptop (Similar to what Sony sells without the Memory Stick expansion).

- mike

[brntcrsp]

Preach it! I've been thrawrted with frustrations about the slow to release smartphones. I'm not concerned one way or the other if it's a Microsoft product or some other product. But, my ideal solution is to have a phone that lets me read my email, hope online to check small things, and maybe play a few games. I want to sync my contacts on the phone between my desktop, and a PDA. I want to carry a phone first and a PDA second. Until that time I feel like I'm just treading water, instead of paddling to that mythical wireless shore.

[normaldude]

I prefer separate devices.

- Small PDA
- Laptop
- Small Tri-Band GSM Mobile Phone like Ericsson T68

All connected by Bluetooth.

Reasons:
1) This way, my mobile phone serves as the connectivity for both my PDA & Laptop.
2) The combo PDA/Phone devices are annoyingly bulky for talking over long periods of time.
3) It is common that you'll talk on the phone, but want to use your PDA (reading info to your friend over the phone). To accomplish this, the combo PDA/Phone device needs a headset, which is awkward to transport in one's pocket or unravel.

[David McNamee]

What do you think? I sort of feel like the odd man out not having or desperately seeking the T-Mobile Pocket PC Phone.
I'm right there with you, Ed. I have no interest in owning a Pocket PC Phone. I'm too heavy a voice user for it to be a good solution for me.

I'll probably be in the two device camp for some time to come.
Likewise. To me, there are two distinct funtions: mobile "work" and mobile communications. My Pocket PC is for mobile "work." That includes writing, data collection, web surfing, etc. I'm hoping that the Smartphone will be the solution for mobile communication. I desperately want a device that has support for voice, e-mail, USENET, SMS, and Instant Messaging. I also want it to be a digital modem for my Pocket PC when I need to transfer data or hit the Web. If the Smartphones do most of that well, then they'll be a huge success.

[jdhill]

What do you think? I sort of feel like the odd man out....
Yes, Ed, you are indeed odd !!! But we still like you anyway. :wink: :wink: :wink:

[handheldplanet]

I have to agree here. I've been using the T-Mobile PPC for about a week now, and I'd exchange it for a bluetooth-enabled smartphone + PDA in a second.

The T-Mobile lacks in a number of areas. First of all, it's not a good cell phone - the headset and speakerphone are definitely sub-standard (I can't hear them and they can't hear me!). I also agree with ThomasC22 - buttons are nice. I also look forward to having voice-activated dialing again too.

Of course PPCPE is great for downloading emails and writing emails.

I recently picked up a Toshiba Genio e550g, and I love the big screen on it. My ideal combination will be the e550g (with a bluetooth card) + either a T68 or a Sendo Z100. Of course, I'll probably have both the T68 and the Z100 so I'll carry the e550g+T68 most of the time and the Z100 while working out or going somewhere where it doesn't make sense for me to carry a PDA.

The reason why a smartphone will never replace my PDA entirely = text entry. I can't imagine responding to emails on that thing. It takes me long enough to do SMS!

[marlof]

Having been able to use both the iPAQ 3870 / Ericsson T39 Bluetooth connected combination, and the hp Jornada 928 wda all-in-one Pocket PC 2002 Phone Edition device, I am the odd one that prefers an all-in-one.

I don't use my phone much for voice calls, I use it mostly as a modem for my Pocket PC. I love having this modem built into my PDA (which I carry anyhow), and don't mind the lesser phone functionality.

I do feel that both the Smartphone 2002 and the Pocket PC 2002 Phone Edition should function as a modem too, e.g. for my laptop when I'm on the road.

That said: I want a Smartphone 2002 too. For those moments when carrying a Pocket PC is just too much, and a small subset of your features would be enough. Your data. Never leave home without it.

[Brad Adrian]

The fact that so many people are on board with you, Ed, shouldn't be surprising. We've all kind of gotten caught up with the notion that "converged" devices will predominate and that they will all be the same thing -- a data-centric PDA/phone like the PPC Phone Edition. It shouldn't be that hard for us to recognize that there will be a continuum of device types, ranging from completely voice-centric to completely data-centric.

I have some specific preferences and desires, but the bottom line is that the *majority* of North Americans interested in a converged device will gravitate toward a Smartphone-like device. We are a voice-centric society.

Now, in other areas like Japan...

[fmcpherson]

And to add to what Brad said. It seems to me that SmartPhones might be the first real need for good voice-to-text software. T9 works in some cases, but I find it combersome for some text input. The amount of data that you work with on a SmartPhone might make it very practical for a voice recognition.

[nobody]

Right on. Sign me up for a smartphone.

[Kemas]

At the company I work for I am in charge of new wireless devices and technologies. It is my job to stay on the cutting edge. I find though that my advice is not heeded at the moment nor wanted... either from employees or from our vendor.

The vendor, in this case Sprint PCS, believes that converged devices like the PocketPC Phone are the wave of the here and the now as well as the future. So much so that they are not planning on using the Smartphone at all. They will be offering java based phones, but those will be down played. I tell them time and time again that these large bulky devices, when compared to today's mobile phones, will not do well. They tell me that businessmen across the country will buy these up in a heart beat if they have any brains at all. Which might be true for a while, until these "smart" businessmen and women realize they have to carry this to dinner at night, the baseball game on Sunday and even the local bar while they are looking to "hook-up." I just don't see that catching on... Americans are very picky, very demanding and most of all judgemental. We see someone carring a large device like this all the time and we are going ot make fun of them. Plain and simple. During the day at work it will be cool.... at lunch it will be less cool and at the bar that night it will be down right not cool. Less we not forget convience, there is nothing convient about these unless you carry your PDA 24/7.

I have thought the concept was silling since day one and will continue to think so. I love my PDA and carry it a great deal, but I don't want to have to carry it all the time. My phone on the other hand I do carry all the time and want to. Small is better. With a PDA, large screen is better.

Now, if we can bluetooth enable both units so that I can tie directly into either and sync the data... that would be great. When I make a phone call I am not pulling out my PDA and when I want to enter the price of my steak dinner and a night on the town I want to be able to read the screen easily and enter the data seemlessly......... then put it in my pocket and not worry about it ringing.

Ladies and gents.... the informed population believes this to be a bad idea... but the telecom companies and the PDA makers (who want the mobile phone market bad) are telling the less informed folks that this is the way to go. Unfortunetly the public listens to them and not us.....

Further evidence that carrying a PDA can lessen your ability to be "listened too". How ironic, once you think about it.

Kemas

[paulbiba]

I had a Kyocera Smartphone and thought this was a great idea, until the Palm part of it broke. I found myself without a phone and a Palm for the two weeks it took to get it fixed. Talk about withdrawal symptoms!!!

I'll never use a converged device again.

[adamz]

7 - I like number pads on my cell phone. And that is PHYSICAL number pads, not on screen ones AND for that matter not ones that are attached to whole thumb keyboards. I just want a regular, run of the mill, 12 key numberpad.

Haha! I rarely use the number pad on telephones. Back in the Windows CE 2.1 days, I used the UTMF dialer integrated into the Contacts program. Tap 'n Hold on a contact, choose "Dial", hold the PDA up to a phone reciever, and it dials the call. At home, I use Outlook to dial phone calls.
Numeric dialing pads were a work-around interface for not being able to contact some one by their name. It's more work to remember a person's number and then type it in with numeric buttons than it is to select the person in Outlook.

With a two piece PDA/phone combination, you'd have to look at your PDA, then look at your phone, type in the first 4 digits of the phone number, look back at the PDA, look back at the phone, etc., etc. Granted, bluetooth helps allieviate that as well, but having it all in one is a much more elegant solution.

How painful would it be to carry around a PIM device, a cell phone, a blackberry device for email, an MP3 player for audio, an eBook reader device, and a laptop for internet/writing?

I think the ability to contact some one via a telephone or email or IM or videophone simply by choosing their name from an Outlook database that is syncronized with your PIM server/desktop or Copy/pasting a phone number found in a Website or telephone directory is a major step forward. Wake up and smell the 21st Century! :) I don't identify people by numbers, why should telephones? Yes, I know there are cell phone phonebooks, but they don't include address information, nor can they automatically display the address location on a map.

Voice recognition is of course another good UI for this. I'm sure it will be available in all PPC Phones someday. It is in the Jornada WDA after all.

I love being able to carry one all-powerful device and not worry about not being prepared. The one time I went out with friends and only took the cell phone, naturally we got lost. Had I had the PDA, I could've opened up the map. Even with the cell phone, I usually use a headset, so having that plug into the PDA makes no difference to me. I think it's a chore to have to hold a cell phone up against my head… plus, what if I need my hands for something else, like steering the motorcycle?

'Course I have nothing against the Smartphone 2002 devices. They'll be great for people that don't write emails or input text into their PDAs.

[PlayAgain?]

I quite agree that Smartphones will sell more than PDAs, and that should really be quite obvious to anybody who is interested.

I have seen a number of normal mobile phone users who have already switched to the Nokia 7650, and others, who want a little more than a normal Smartphone, are holding out for the SE P800 or the already rumoured Nokia 7650i.

The market is becoming obvious. Whenever people have seen me use a PDA, they've been intrigued, but not enough to identify its functionality with their needs. When they see me use a Smartphone, things are different, they ask how much it cost and where they can get one from and they really connect with it.

I suppose that this is probably because it is so much like what they are used to! Sure, their current phone may not have the advanced functionality of a 7650, but they have already been gently exposed to very basic PIM functionality in the address books and simple calendars available in phones like the 7110, 6210, 8210, 8310..... you get the picture.

This, as well as the imaging capabilities of the current Symbian and SonyEricsson crop are allowing users to have a new experience, one that allows them to capture moments, share moments and remember moments (like the sunset I saw down in Llanmadoc one evening - see below). It also allows them to efficiently share schedule and contact information. They're basically doing what we geeks have been doing for ages, but now that it is at a level they understand (thanks to intuitive and well thought out UIs), it is finally catching on.

Smartphones and the excellent services that come with GPRS connectivity are already catching on in the high green hills of Wales! And if they're being used in Wales, well then! They must be popular!

And I so agree with the post that said that he associates people with names and not numbers! It's great to have a photo of a caller pop up instead of just a name! There are some friends I phone nearly every day and I still don't know what their telephone number is since I've offloaded that information from my brain to my phone!

[gracar]

I would not swap my Nokia 6310 / iPAQ 3870 combination for a single device. The mobile is great if I just want a phone and the combination works well when BT is enabled (and I found that straightforward to implement).

I want to add additional services to the 3870 (the Navman 3400 Voice GPS will soon be available) and I don't think it's going to be that easy having the phone and the GPS operating simultaneously. When additional services come along the attraction of a combined unit will diminish I believe.

How many of the new T Mobile users also use a mobile - just occasionally?

[dunneldeen]

I spend a lot of time on my cell phone because I am on-call for my job. I also use my PDA a lot to manage my day-to-day business. However, while my Company won't buy me a PocketPC device (palms are ok, but I don't want one :) ), they will buy me a phone.

This actually matches my preferences perfectly, since I would much prefer 2 devices connected via bluetooth as opposed to 1 device. Plus, I want my PDA to do a LOT, and the current selection of PocketPC Phones seem too much of a compromise. You end up getting a device that is way too large, or has lousy screens/memory. I wouldn't even think of switching to a Smartphone, I'm not sure I would even want one as my bluetooth phone.

All that said, my wife is definately in the heavy phone user catagory. But she likes the basic functionality of my PocketPC (contacts, calendar, email, etc.) I definately see myself buying her a smartphone when they become available.

[PPCRules]

I'm with Ed, and this 5 - I like my phones small and my PDA screens big. is the situation in a nut shell.

For what I use a PDA for, I couldn't go with a smaller screen. And while I am not a heavy phone user, I wouldn't want to use my PDA for even those calls. One simple example: A good modern phone should be able to be charged once a week, and depended upon to be ready to go any time in between. Don't know about you, but my PDA needs to be charge about every day; and, I don't see that improving much very soon, without growing the device.

I think alot of the convergence excitement will die out after real people are using the rev 1 devices for real purposes for a while. The only repeat buyers will be those who think the next one out will be the ultimate device that finally gets it right. Everyone else will get a Smartphone, and only some of those will feel they need to carry a PDA.

[Mobile Bob]

Great posts by everyone! I can't dispute any of the points anyone has made so far. As of now, I find myself in both camps: single device and multiple devices. I truly favor being a one device guy, but this is not always practical.

When carrying either my book bag or laptop case (about 50% of the time), I will have my laptop, e740 (with Bluetooth CF card), and T68i. When going to the gym to work out or to somewhere that is unfriendly to a PDA (like the beach), I will only carry the T68i (this could be a bluetooth SpartPhone in the future). Everywhere else (about 40% of the time), i'll only carry the T-Mobile PPC Phone. I happen to be more data-centric than voice-centric, but the few phone calls that I do get are either very important or urgent, so I must have a phone with me at all times.

As has been stated on this board many times (and many of the reviewers in the media don't seem to understand), there is no one device or group of devices that is right for everyone. How fortunate all of us are to have these convergent devices coming out that offer us so many choices. :D

The claim that SmartPhone devices will outnumber wireless PDAs by 2:1 by 2006 seems very reasonable to me. The population as a whole (at least in North America) is definitely voice-centric. As a user, this means nothing to me because I still have to find the device, or combination of devices, that is best for me. As a soon-to-be professional programmer, however, this means a great deal. Should I decide to write programs for mobile devices in the future, i'll naturally want to focus on markets that offer the most opportunity. I'll definitely be giving the SmartPhones a try once they become available.

[Jason Dunn]

I think the 2:1 figure is optimistic for the PDA side of things - I expect Smartphones to kill off "dumb phones" in a few years and dominate sales over PDAs by a factor of 8:1 or more. PDAs aren't something that the average person needs or wants. Until, as a society, everyone has a more powerful need for data this simply won't happen. Not everyone needs their email as badly as WE do. :D

[ricksfiona]

1) This way, my mobile phone serves as the connectivity for both my PDA & Laptop.
2) The combo PDA/Phone devices are annoyingly bulky for talking over long periods of time.
3) It is common that you'll talk on the phone, but want to use your PDA (reading info to your friend over the phone). To accomplish this, the combo PDA/Phone device needs a headset, which is awkward to transport in one's pocket or unravel.

Exactly how I feel. I'll get a smartphone only to use when carrying a PDA is too much. The smartphone would be used just for quick references to my calendar and have all of my contacts. It would HAVE to have bluetooth and be a tri-band GSM. I would need too much expandibility for a smartphone to remain small.

[draiken]

Reading trough all the posts... an Idea came to my wicked mind...

Let's play with the concepts here...

Today: Phone + PocketPC or T-Mobile style all in one... or a solo SmartPhone, or a Smartphone + PocketPC

Maybe Someday:
A more flexible device...
A smartphone, with a full pocketpc brain+OS inside but with a smaller screen, bluetooth for a headset and a memory/expansion slot.

Then... add a Mira like device (the stuff M$ is talking about detachable lcd's trough 802.11b) 4 inch screen (or more) that connects to the phone via bluetooth or something wireless. This would be smaller than a current pocketpc, having just the screen, battery and maybe expansion slots

This way, you have a phone (carrying all your data, programs, MP3s and games...) and when you need it, a "big" screen for reading, typing, gaming, browsing, etc...

The catch... having enough battery on the phone to compare to phone-only devices, and the GUI should adapt (like a laptop with an external monitor) to the phone screen, and the external screen.

This way you could eliminate having 2 "independent" devices with similar features, -> less total cost, and keep the phone a phone, but with all your data and stuff inside, and add the "big" screen only when you need it.

Just my .02

[Rob Alexander]

Wow, I'm surprised how many people are supporting the phone + PDA position in this thread. My general impression from ealier threads was that I was in a serious minority in that preference. For me, a convergent device would be more cumbersome than helpful. I don't want to carry a larger device all the time, but I always want my phone with me. I also want the option not to look like a geek sometimes and leave my iPaq behind. Others have mentioned, and I agree, that I use my iPaq when on my mobile so I don't want them in the same device. And I like that my phone has a nice long battery life and wouldn't want to be out of communication just because I'd played one too many rounds of the latest game in my PPC.

What I'll be looking to achieve is a small (real small, like my Nokia 8250) mobile phone with bluetooth, along with both a PPC and an ultra-mini laptop both with bluetooth. Then I can mix and match for my needs of the moment, but the phone will always be there.

On the other hand, my wife uses her Jornada 99% for PDA stuff, with just a few games and ebook readings on top. She'd love a Smartphone and would happily toss the PPC if she could have a nice color phone with PDA functions. I imagine she's way more in the mainstream on this than most of us here, and I agree with Jason that Smartphones are likely to outnumber PDAs by a large margin. I'd bet on his 8:1 prediction over the 2:1 guess any day.

[krisbrown]

Slightly off topic, but a real concern.
Phones are getting more and more complicated and even high street gsm phones can hold Mb's of info, smartphones like the sendo will be able to hold tons of data and people will no doubt put a lot of personal info in them, including pics, diaries, passwords address's ,friends e-mails telephone numbers (obviously).
These things are so easy to lose or more likely get stolen when thieves realise their value.
I have just recently deleted all the personal info I put in my T68i after losing the phone for a few days and getting it back, luckily it was just down a friends couch, but during it's loss I started to think that my whole life was on that phone, including some risque pics of the girlfriend!!!!

[woa1]

Most seem to focus on the 80:20 voice:data or vice versa solution.
I would like a 50:50 or 60:40 Voice:Data all-in-one solution!
The 80:20 Data:Voice solutions like the Pocket PC based devices are too big and lack real keypads to be good voice devices.
The MS Smartphone devices while great at voice (size, real keypad etc) are too limited to be good data devices. No Handwriting Recognition or miniature keyboards means they are very limited for data e.g. email or even typing websites and entering Contact/Calender info even with T9 input. They also aren't software expandable enough yet (no excel etc).
The perfect compromise for my 60:40 ideal device is looking more like the Palm OS based phones (e.g. the Kyocera 7135 or Samsung SCH-i500 or even a Treo 300 - search http://www.infosync.no for more info on these devices if interested).
These are not much bigger than regular cellphones and have real keypads for voice use. They also have handwriting recognition (and a miniature keypad on the Treo) so I can actually write and not only read emails on the device. They should also be able to run all the standard Palm Apps so I can run my spreadsheets, financial calcs, wordprocessors, games etc all in one device which should also work great for voice.

Compare the two Samsung smartphones SCH-i500 Palm-based to SPH-i600 MS Smartphone based products and unless the MS based phone is cheaper, I am not sure what its advantages are (well, excluding the SD memory slot).

Not the ideal solution for everyone but just my two cents!

[nishka]

I think Smartphones will easily trump PDA phones.. I like phones that are the size of a phone.. The current crop of PDA phones are just simply too big and obnoxious to slip into my pocket or clip on my belt..

I was about to update my calling plan and phone, but I am now going to wait for the new Samsung CDMA smart phone to hit the market. It looks like a home run if the size is reasonable!

[Dale Coffing]

Ok, that shows your colors now Ed that you aren't an obsessed geek.... I attend my geek-aholic meetings weekly :lol:

[scottmag]

Hmmm, maybe I'm the only one who disagrees here. But I think that smartphones like this will be a complete failure in the marketplace. In fact, from the amount of time that has past since the "Stinger" introduction, and the amount of money, time, and effort that has gone into production over those years, I'd say it's already a failure.

It's just wishful thinking by a pro-PocketPC crowd. Just days ago Ed was complaining that the mainstream press didn't get that the Thera and the T-Mobile device were "data-centric" and thus should not be judged so harshly against regular voice phones. That's a common opinion here but it is not what the typical consumer thinks. It is called a phone and it is sold by a phone company. Mobile phone users want a small easy to operate phone and only a very small percentage (outside of markets like Japan) want any data features at all. So now the crowd has shifted to praising the smartphone format and imagining that the PPC Phone Edition will still fill some valuable niche.

Think about the typical mobile phone user for a minute. Do you think that that person has and uses Outlook at home? Does he or she want to synchronize a phone? I mean these are the type of people that have no idea what technology their phone uses. I see people all the time here in North Carolina in Cingular stores and mall kiosks. The sales person will be telling them how many thousands of night and weekend minutes they get but nothing about the fact that the phones are GSM and they will be roaming on another company's network outside Cingular's east coast GSM island of the Carolinas. These people don't want data, they don't want synchronization, and they surely don't want Outlook.

The other familiar refrain of the pro-PPC crowd is that the enterprise market will drive market share gains. Well, I don't know anyone whose company chose and bought their mobile phone. I know many people whose companies pay the bill though. Phones are personal devices. Who would want their IT department issuing them a phone? No one, I would say.

I don't want to bash these MS smartphones before seeing them in action. I am actually very interested. But I think it's a fantasy that the larger market of ("voice-centric") mobile phone users are going to want anything to do with this.

Scott

[krisbrown]

Soo true Scott, all these programs are going to have to be dumbed down to a level at which ordinary Joe can use, they are far too geeky, even Outlook,
if you don't agree, take a letter ,look at it ,then look at Outlook, same thing 10,000X more complicated.
Microsoft need's an influx of Homer Simpsons in it's R&D , it would be a far better company for it.