Outlook XP will no longer come free with a Pocket PC [Archive]

Jason Dunn

08-22-2002, 10:20 PM

...but Outlook 2000 will. There's been some buzz lately about Microsoft pulling Outlook from the Pocket PC bundle. This made no sense to me, or many others, because ActiveSync can only talk to Outlook (perhaps it's more of a mumble). How could Microsoft ship a Pocket PC without a desktop client to sync against? The answer is, they aren't going to. They are, however, going to downgrade the software from Outlook XP to Outlook 2000. Fujitsu-Siemens shipping the Loox with NO version of Outlook was an error on their part. Why is Microsoft doing this? There are many reasons, but ultimately I believe it comes down to this: the team responsible for Outlook XP feels the value of their product is diluted when it's bundled with something else rather than sold on its own or sold as part of the very expensive Office XP suite. Also, with the next version of Outlook sporting a radically new UI, I think they want to drive the perceived value of Outlook up rather than keeping it bundled. This is not a decision the Mobile Devices team made, it's a decision made by the Outlook team. Apparently in the surveys they did, most Pocket PC owners already had a copy of Outlook. It makes sense to me - I never install Outlook off the Pocket PC CD because I already have it installed from Office. If Pocket PC users want Outlook XP, they'll have to pay $99 US to buy it - there is no upgrade for Outlook (that I could find). Right off the bat, the repercussions are fairly minor - I can't think of any features that XP offers that differ from 2000 in terms of what the Pocket PC can take advantage of. However, I see two problems that may crop up based on this decision: 1) Microsoft doesn't support old software forever. Being one notch behind the software curve means you have to deal with the bugs that they will have (hopefully) fixed in the current version of Outlook. 2) What will this mean for future versions of ActiveSync? Let's say Outlook 2003 supports a great new feature that the ActiveSync team wants to use, but Pocket PCs are shipping with Outlook 2002. Will our future ActiveSync experience be hampered by not having the latest version? What about those of us that will have the latest version of Outlook - will we be held back by the lowest common denominator of what comes in the box? Tell me what you think and cast your vote in the survey.

Konrad

08-22-2002, 10:33 PM

Funny you mention the "Outlook team." My father, Microsoft employee, once worked on Microsoft Exchange (server software) which often interacted with the Outlook team. Throughout the entire time he worked there, the Outlook team and there product was a standing joke. Whenever anything went wrong, it was Outlook's fault. Everybody made fun of Outlook programmers. And somewhere in the middle of Microsoft Exchange code my dad left the //comment "Outlook Sucks."

Their decision to bundle in Outlook 2000 may have been a result of some lasting childhood drama.

ojlittle

08-22-2002, 10:47 PM

Does that mean that future versions of Outlook may not be supported in Activesync? I always upgrade to the newest version of Office... I would hate to not be able to use the newest version of Outlook because my PPC says I can't.

Foo Fighter

08-22-2002, 10:52 PM

This seems like a rather anti-competitive move for Microsoft. Bundling PPC with crippled PIM software is going to cast a dark shadow on an otherwise good product. Hell, even Palm offers the latest version of its PIM to all users at no charge. Yet Microsoft wants me to shell out another $100 just to get the software that SHOULD have come with my handheld in the first place? I think not.

I hate Outlook anyway. What I would really like to MS do is bundle a beefed up version of Outlook Express (with simple calendar and Address book features built-in) for consumers. Something like Entourage for Mac. Then leave Outlook for the corporate market...where it belongs.

BrianCooksey

08-22-2002, 10:53 PM

MS certainly isn't the first vendor to allow a prior version of software to be bundled with another product.

In the end, I suspect this will not be a detriment to PPC sales. I can't think of many users that I know who bought the hardware to get Outlook.

Further, I plan to upgrade to Office XP even though Outlook XP was included with my iPAQ. However, finding that XP was bundled gave me "goodwill" feelings as a customer - a nice measure of intangible value for MS. (In fact, I probably won't install Outlook XP until I upgrade office)

Jason Dunn

08-22-2002, 11:07 PM

Jason Dunn

08-22-2002, 11:09 PM

Julio

08-22-2002, 11:15 PM

Hello,

Funny thing....

It was my original palm-size pc that got me to start using Outlook in the first place - I was originally using Netscape Mail to store contact information. Outlook was available to me through work - but I did not have a copy at home. When I upgraded to pocket pc and got outlook at home in that manner, then I was also finally able to sync with outlook at work and home.

I think that this new plan is a mistake for Microsoft. I would guess that most people are like me - outlook available at work but not at home. I would say that:
1. the cost of a ppc is high enough that the latest version of outlook should easily fit within it
2. not bundling the XP version means Microsoft is not putting its best foot forward
3. it will be confusing to non-technical people to have multiple outlook versions and the differences in UI that accompany different versions. Usually its programs get easier to use with each new version. Also, most of my non-technical friends/family members try to use the same programs at home and at work - because that simplifies the whole process for them and lets them get on with achieving their work goals - instead of fiddling with their computer's oftentimes confusing parameters.
Jason: thanks for clearing this up.

Julio

splintercell

08-22-2002, 11:22 PM

Hell, even Palm offers the latest version of its PIM to all users at no charge.

Hmm..."PIM"..I suppose, if you want to call it that. And they most likely bundle it, because apart from giving it away, nobody sane would ever pay for it. :wink:

Foo Fighter

08-22-2002, 11:25 PM

Oh heavens Foo, you are SO melodramatic! :roll: What exactly is "crippled" about Outlook 2000? Name one Outlook XP feature that a Pocket PC user would NEED that Outlook 2000 doesn't offer?

The fact that this isn't the latest version of Outlook makes it crippled from a value standpoint. I wouldn't buy a PDA based on the desktop software it comes with, but one would expect to get Outlook XP with their PPC, considering that Outlook 2000 has been dead and buried for quite some time now. Will Microsoft continue to bundle O2000 even after the next generation of Office hits the market? That's not going to look very good.

I don't think this decision by Microsoft is very nice to consumers, but I also don't think it's catastrophic either - let's keep things in perspective shall we? :D

No, it isn't catastrophic, but it is definitely a negative when you are paying a premium price for premium hardware.

hollis_f

08-22-2002, 11:28 PM

This would be a great time for some of Micro$oft's competitors to try and hit back.

Imagine something like a combination of Intellisync with Lotus Organiser for $50.

thenikjones

08-22-2002, 11:45 PM

Foo Fighter

08-22-2002, 11:46 PM

This would be a great time for some of Micro$oft's competitors to try and hit back. Imagine something like a combination of Intellisync with Lotus Organiser for $50.

Yikes! Organizer is a dinosaur. It was the first PIM software I ever used, and it was an excellent piece of software for its time. But Lotus lost the edge and fell far behind Microsoft in feature integration and functionality (Organizer still can't handle e-mail).

The sad truth is, there really isn't a solid competitor to Outlook since Microsoft won the office suite wars. I use Palm Desktop simply because it is more streamlined and offers a much better UI to Outlook. But that may change with the next generation Office. I can't wait for the beta to come out! :)

Ravenswing

08-22-2002, 11:52 PM

I wouldn't buy a PDA based on the desktop software it comes with, but one would expect to get Outlook XP with their PPC, considering that Outlook 2000 has been dead and buried for quite some time now.

Hardly 'dead and buried'. While Microsoft might like to think that Office 2000 is dead and gone, a lot of companies will still be using it, particularly outside the US. That's assuming they shelled out the money to upgrade from Office 98! :roll:

Outlook XP has way better functionality as a personal PIM and email client than Ol2000 had, but in a corporate environment there's nothing to gain from OlXP other than the ability to paint your appointments pretty colours.

So, Microsoft are stiffing the people who could benefit most from a free copy of Office XP (consumers), while keeping their primary intended customers (corporations) happy 'cos they don't give a damn anyway. Might even be able to reduce the (bulk) unit cost slightly.

Wes Salmon

08-22-2002, 11:53 PM

considering that Outlook 2000 has been dead and buried for quite some time now.ACK! I've been using Outlook 2000 now for a number of years, I was wondering what the rotting flesh smell was. ;)

splintercell

08-23-2002, 12:13 AM

I use Palm Desktop simply because it is more streamlined and offers a much better UI to Outlook.

i.e. it lacks most of the features, has no integration with other useful apps, and looks plain ugly? :?

Will T Smith

08-23-2002, 01:16 AM

Perhaps they'll offer an upgrade coupon for those users who wish to use the newest version.

Of course, if you already have OfficeXP installed, it's kinda a mute point.

I could see Microsoft's point that packaging Outlook with EVERY PocketPC can lower it's value. I know I have multiple Outlook 2000 disks lying around from various upgrades or service plan redemptions. I would speculate that a lot of other folks do as well. What happens when you have an EXTRA license, well you pass it on to a friend.

Another possibility is that Microsoft could lower the licensing fee on PocketPC since OfficeXP is NOT included. The reasoning being that they will pick up money on upgrade sales. Or, some folks might just decide to upgrade their entire office suite since their already making a trip to the store.

In any case, this type of policy would actually be "non" monopolistic. Why? Because other vendors now have an opportunity to compete in this space. After all, why would other vendors wish to invest serious money when ActiveSync/Outlook XP disks are as plentiful as AOL promotional disks.

If Microsoft drops the licensing fees so that PocketPCs can get $40 cheaper, I say hooray. It will help PocketPC better compete with Palm and Clie on pricepoint.

You know, I would speculate that perhaps Dell computer might have some influence on this. After all, if Dell wants to bundle PocketPCs with their systems ... AND the consumer is already purchasing an Office License, then they are effectively paying for Outlook XP TWICE. This might very well be how Dell intends to make money on it's $299 PocketPC. ... Just a thought.

Steven Cedrone

08-23-2002, 01:25 AM

Perhaps they'll offer an upgrade coupon for those users who wish to use the newest version.

Unfortunately, the upgrade price and the new license for Outlook are the same price. I don't think you'll ever see an upgrade coupon, I'd love to be wrong though :wink:

From Microsoft web site:

http://www.microsoft.com/office/outlook/howtobuy/default.asp

Order Just Outlook 2002
If you just need a copy of Outlook 2002, you can order it online. The prices* are:

$109 US for new users
$109 US to upgrade from a previous version of Outlook
* Reseller prices may vary. To see if you qualify for upgrade pricing, visit the upgrade eligibility page.

Steve

Sven Johannsen

08-23-2002, 01:39 AM

Outlook 2000 has been dead and buried for quite some time now.

Hmm, maybe I should leave my Fortune 500 company. I got Office 2000 on W2K about a week ago as part of the slow move from Office 97 on NT. I guess real businesses upgrade all 5000 desktops as soon as the newest release is out.

As far as what does Outlook XP offer over Outlook 2000? HTTP mail support. Does that matter? Not now, but if MS evers lives up to the 'soon' that they have been promising the hotmail connector for inbox, which I assume would sync with Outlook like the rest of the inbox does, and to get HTTP mail into your Outlook inbox you need to have Outlook XP....well....

Jason Dunn

08-23-2002, 01:46 AM

If Microsoft drops the licensing fees so that PocketPCs can get $40 cheaper, I say hooray. It will help PocketPC better compete with Palm and Clie on pricepoint.

I know you're just speculating, but I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you - the cost of the Pocket PC OS is a surprisingly small chunk of the overall Pocket PC price. I doubt we'll see even a slight price drop due to this.

adamz

08-23-2002, 02:07 AM

Doesn't anyone remember when the early Pocket PCs/Palm-Sized PCs didn't come with Outlook at all??! They came with "Schedule +"... which I certainly never used.
'Course, back then I just told the syncing software to use Outlook which was already on my computer.

MikeB

08-23-2002, 02:13 AM

They are, however, going to downgrade the software from Outlook XP to Outlook 2000

After using both, and especially after dealing with the activation police when I wanted to switch the computer I synchronized with, I am not sure that is a "downgrade" :)

Mike B.

BTS

08-23-2002, 02:33 AM

I think most of us will have some flavour of Office on our computer which will already have Outlook so it's not really a big deal. Why not package Intellisync and let the user choose the PIM of their choice? I would love to be able to sync to Groupwise without having to buy an extra package.

Timothy Rapson

08-23-2002, 02:57 AM

Disgusting, cheap, and greedy.

The $40 billion worth of our money sort of disgusting, cheap, and greedy.

takotchi

08-23-2002, 03:31 AM

They should just make the PocketPC sync with Outlook Express, which is always free, and forget about giving away Outlook altogether.

Really, though, who doesn't have Outlook? I have always had it one way or another.

Then again, I don't know if I could have got Office XP if I didn't get it free (no, I didn't pirate it, I was an Office 10 beta tester (::gets assassinated by Microsoft goons::))

Foo Fighter

08-23-2002, 03:42 AM

While Microsoft might like to think that Office 2000 is dead and gone...

That's kind of my point. To my knowledge, you can no longer buy Office 2000. Enterprise customers can still license the software (I think), but for all intents and purposes, OXP has replaced the 2000 suite.

Foo Fighter

08-23-2002, 03:51 AM

They should just make the PocketPC sync with Outlook Express, which is always free, and forget about giving away Outlook altogether.[/b]

That is exactly the way I feel, but first some improvements need to be made to OE before it can "replace" Outlook. As I said earlier, Microsoft should target Outlook Express for consumers (an improved version) and target Outlook for the corporate space as they are doing now.

Really, though, who doesn't have Outlook? I have always had it one way or another.

A great many people I know don't have or use Outlook (at least for home use). And thank God for that.

I've used Outlook for years (since the 97 release). But I got tired of having to settle for second rate software (in my opinion). Microsoft has produced some of the best and worst software on the market. Outlook falls into the latter category. NGO could change that. It looks very promising.

Then again, I don't know if I could have got Office XP if I didn't get it free (no, I didn't pirate it, I was an Office 10 beta tester (::gets assassinated by Microsoft goons::))

Funny you should mention that. I got Office 2000 Pro for free back in 99 when I took part in a huge 3 hour long online survey for Office users. Anyone else get it that way?

Rob Alexander

08-23-2002, 03:56 AM

:sleeping: I can't think of many things about the PPC that would worry me less than this. I have an Office XP license for my computer, but I use Office 2000 because the 'improvements' in XP aren't worth the time to pull out the CD from the rack 2 feet behind me and do the install. I've never installed Outlook from the PPC CD and never will, so I really don't care which version they include. I'd lean toward agreeing with those who say they should build basic PIM functionality into Outlook Express and then skip Outlook altogether. (Not skip support for it, of course, but just not include it with PPCs.)

JMountford

08-23-2002, 04:02 AM

My Goodness,

What a circus.

Honestly I liked Outlook 2000 better performance wise. I have had nothing but grief from Outlook XP. But I do like the XP UI.

That being said. I am really starting to dislike the way MS treats it's "Mobile Customers". Are we really so unimportant. I mean I know MS doesn't get squat for each license. Still, do we mean so little in the scheme of things. What ever became of integrity? Did MS ever have it? No upgrades to Active Sync. Limited features in MS integrated Apps. Hardly anyone on staff to deal with the Pocket PC OS. On the Average I love MS Apps, but their business of disregarding customers leaves me cold.

Heck they don't even give a crap what their own "MVPs" have to say according to the things I read from the MVPs.

And to think I used to want the distinction. Anyway. This is just more proof that MS really does not give a rat's left butt cheek about Pocket PC or it's users.

And if you are going to pipe up with "yes they do" I want proof, other than some MS head honcho propaganda speech.

Foo Fighter

08-23-2002, 04:04 AM

i.e. it lacks most of the features, has no integration with other useful apps, and looks plain ugly? :?

Lacks the features, yes. Has no integration? That depends on what you mean by integration. Ugly? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I find the streamlined UI to be much MUCH more usable that Outlook's bloated over-beveled..button crazy UI.

Here's an example. Look at Outlook's Task entry window:

Foo Fighter

08-23-2002, 04:06 AM

Now compare it to Palm Desktop's cleaner, more efficient To Do entry:

cpoole

08-23-2002, 04:59 AM

I use pocket informant for my contacts and tasks...
I use outlook for my email.

I would guess that 90% of my data entry is done on the pocket pc (not including email)... I could easily do the other 10% there as well. I mainly use outlook as a backup for my contacts and tasks.

Whatever version is bundled is not a problem as long as I can sync the contacts and tasks (for backup).

Marc Zimmermann

08-23-2002, 06:00 AM

Now compare it to Palm Desktop's cleaner, more efficient To Do entry:
So what's the point? There's a lot of features missing in the Palm Desktop dialog, so it's naturally looking cleaner.

humphrey22

08-23-2002, 06:49 AM

Outlook 2002 is a sort of stop gap between Outlook 2000 and Outlook XP. You do get the Hotmail Inbox, Auotfill typing, better Email Account Settings management, MSN Messenger integration, you can find and manage your Data File--.pst file--(Inbox, Contacts, Taks, etc) much easier.

Also MS was having serious challanges getting Enterprise customer to upgrade to Office XP. MS even extended the deadline they said was quite firm before. I have a feeling that if Outlook XP was included onto PPC CDs this would have affected the Upgrade Assurance program since MS is really targeting Enterprise customers with the Pocket PC more so than consumers.

marlof

08-23-2002, 07:21 AM

Name one Outlook XP feature that a Pocket PC user would NEED that Outlook 2000 doesn't offer?

If I'd have to name one, it would be dismiss all for notifications. It made my mornings a lot easier. Next to that there's a better Exchange/POP integration, but I doubt that is something many would benefit from as in that situation it's most of the time the company that decides on the PIM anyhow. Or MSN Messenger integration. That's a good thing in XP as well, and I think many would use that (although I don't). To be perfectly honest: I prefer Outlook 2002/XP over Outlook 2000. But still, I use Outlook 2000 at work, and it's a very decent PIM in my point of view. I wouldn't mind using that for the next year or so. :)

Pony99CA

08-23-2002, 08:21 AM

Outlook 2002 is a sort of stop gap between Outlook 2000 and Outlook XP. You do get the Hotmail Inbox, Auotfill typing, better Email Account Settings management, MSN Messenger integration, you can find and manage your Data File--.pst file--(Inbox, Contacts, Taks, etc) much easier.

So Outlook 2002 is not Outlook XP? I got Outlook 2002 with my iPAQ 3870 and assumed this is what we were talking about. I guess I haven't kept up with this. :lol:

What Pocket PCs did come with Outlook XP?

Steve

Joff

08-23-2002, 08:24 AM

$99 is a bit of a joke :lol: . At this price, would surely look at other options. May be it is a good move from Microsoft for the competition.

Pony99CA

08-23-2002, 08:46 AM

Here's an alternative viewpoint:

Outlook 2000 - install on as many PCs as you like
Outlook XP - install on 1 PC, need to activate, lot of hassle to install on another PC

So what, you say? Well, there is a thriving market in 2nd hand PDAs - I have never had a new WinCE machine, and I'm on my 4th - and the Outlook program is a vital component. Outlook XP makes it very difficult to sell on the package to someone else. Outlook 2000 solves this problem.

I wondered about this myself. When I got my iPAQ 3870, I gave my 3650 to my wife. The first thing I did was install Outlook 2002 my daughter's laptop (which is where my wife is supposed to sync) because that computer did not have Outlook at all.

After that, I went to install Outlook 2002 on my laptop over my old Outlook 97. Imagine my surprise when I found that I couldn't do that because my copy of Outlook 2002 was already registered. :evil: Even worse, I couldn't uninstall Outlook 2002 from my daughter's laptop and then install it on my laptop because uninstalling didn't unregister it with Microsoft. I eventually had to call Microsoft to get an install key for my laptop.

I think using Outlook 2000 will benefit those users who want to synchronize with two computers, too. Why should a user have to buy two copies of Outlook because they want to synchronize with their desktop and laptop?

Is this the reason M$ has made this change? Probably not, but it isn't the 100% fiasco some here think it is.

I agree that this doesn't seem to be a fiasco, but I can easily believe this is the real reason Microsoft is doing this. If the only reason they won't include Outlook XP is because it "devalues" Outlook XP, why not include Outlook 2002 instead of Outlook 2000? (I'm assuming XP and 2002 aren't the same product -- see my previous post.)

This may be a way for Microsoft to allow multiple installations of Outlook without seeming to condone piracy. Of course, maybe I'm being too charitable with Microsoft for once. :lol:

Steve

Pony99CA

08-23-2002, 09:01 AM

I think most of us will have some flavour of Office on our computer which will already have Outlook so it's not really a big deal.
Spoken like a true business user. I bought Office 97 a long time ago, so I did have Outlook 97, but I suspect there are many people (even some corporate users) who don't have Office.

Which brings me to the poll. I think it needs more options. For reference, here is the current poll:

Did you already have Outlook XP prior to getting your Pocket PC?

O Yes, I had Outlook XP from another source or Office XP

O No, I didn't own Outlook XP prior to getting my Pocket PC.

O No, I don't own any version of Outlook other than what came with my Pocket PC.

What about people who don't have Office XP but did have another version of Outlook than the one that came with their Pocket PC? I fall into that case, so apparently I can't vote :-( (unless Outlook XP is the same as Oulook 2002 -- but I addressed that in another post). I feel so left out right now.... :lol:

Steve

farnold

08-23-2002, 09:15 AM

Fujitsu-Siemens shipping the Loox with NO version of Outlook was an error on their part.

Jason, is this a statement from your side, from MS or from FSC? Would be nice to understand it...

Besides, I think M$ is just messing it up again. First the penalize their customers without any notice at all, and then they will fail to realize that they hurt their own PocketPC product. I wonder, which idiot in Redmond came up with that stupid idea... OK, Outlook 2000 does almost the same that 2002 can do, but is it a smart move to make sure you keep two versions under maintenance?

AhuhX

08-23-2002, 09:44 AM

Now compare it to Palm Desktop's cleaner, more efficient To Do entry:
So what's the point? There's a lot of features missing in the Palm Desktop dialog, so it's naturally looking cleaner.

I didn't realise "cleaner" has become a synonym for butt ugly? LOL :lol:

Showing the two side by side seems sort of counter-productive to Foo's argument. I'd take any version of Outlook over that horrid bit of UI design anyday! :)

marlof

08-23-2002, 09:53 AM

(unless Outlook XP is the same as Oulook 2002 -- but I addressed that in another post)

Outlook XP = Outlook 2002

Marc Zimmermann

08-23-2002, 10:17 AM

Fujitsu-Siemens shipping the Loox with NO version of Outlook was an error on their part.

Jason, is this a statement from your side, from MS or from FSC?

I'm not sure about the LOOX, but it sure was a manufacturing error with the Yakumo PDA alpha that's sold in Germany.

Ravenswing

08-23-2002, 10:36 AM

(unless Outlook XP is the same as Oulook 2002 -- but I addressed that in another post)

Outlook XP = Outlook 2002

For the anal among us: Outlook XP = Outlook 2002 = Outlook 10. :wink:

Ravenswing

08-23-2002, 10:43 AM

Now compare it to Palm Desktop's cleaner, more efficient To Do entry:

So Outlook allows you to set a lot of things that Palm's Desktop software doesn't. Hence the Palm input panel for tasks contains less input objects. Hence it is 'cleaner'.

That is an argument for home users sticking to Palm systems. They don't need all those extra features that Outlook gives them.

Actually, what peeves me most is that half of that stuff doesn't actually sync to my Pocket PC! Outlook lets me set a Task In Progress flag, or actually state what percentage of a task is done. I used to use it, but since I can't sync that data between computers using my iPAQ, I gave up bothering.

A beautiful case in point is Appointment Colours. Not only don't they sync, but they are inaccessible through the Outlook Object Model, so you can't set the damn thing from VBA! I do sometimes wonder which bits of Microsoft talk to each other.

Timothy Rapson

08-23-2002, 12:46 PM

[quote=thenikjones]I eventually had to call Microsoft to get an install key for my laptop.
Steve

Paladium will fix this. Or maybe MS will just come up with a way for them to tie the OS or Outlook directly to our checking accounts and take whatever they want from it each month. :idea:

splintercell

08-23-2002, 01:07 PM

Showing the two side by side seems sort of counter-productive to Foo's argument. I'd take any version of Outlook over that horrid bit of UI design anyday! :)

Thank you! :D

splintercell

08-23-2002, 01:11 PM

I got Office 2000 Pro for free back in 99 when I took part in a huge 3 hour long online survey for Office users. Anyone else get it that way?

Count me in. It stated it would be a 4-hour survey, and with their artificial slowing down of the process, it took something over three. Full version including FrontPage and all. Of course, that was before we had legal work copies I could use at home, but I was still excited anyway. :)

Pony99CA

08-23-2002, 02:57 PM

arkman

08-23-2002, 03:27 PM

A little bit of a rant here....

At the office we use Outlook 97/2000/XP with shared calendering (via shared folders), but no Exchange server (thank you). Much to my dismay the shared folder option has been removed/crippled in Outlook XP. So we are stuck with an older version of Outlook, or attempting to go with something else.

Where am I going with this? I really wish there was a "true" Outlook replacement that allowed me to use it in the Enterprise, use it at home and allow me to use it with my PPC.

I'm slowly switching all my home computing over to Linux. I love Ximian Evolution, but cry that I can't use it with my PPC. I've also been watching The Kompany's (http://www.thekompany.com) development of their PIM app - Aethera. I'm using a beta on Linux and they are supposed to be releaseing a version for Windows. I'm hoping that somewhere down the line there might be PPC support.

All in all...I would love to do away with Outlook. I'm not a MS basher I just loath being dictated too.

Foo Fighter

08-23-2002, 03:59 PM

DrtyBlvd

08-23-2002, 04:02 PM

Bundling PPC with crippled PIM software is going to cast a dark shadow on an otherwise good product...

Oh heavens Foo, you are SO melodramatic! :roll: What exactly is "crippled" about Outlook 2000? Name one Outlook XP feature that a Pocket PC user would NEED that Outlook 2000 doesn't offer?

I don't think this decision by Microsoft is very nice to consumers, but I also don't think it's catastrophic either - let's keep things in perspective shall we? :D

Personally I'd like to see the ability to colour code appointments - I don't believe it does that on the PPC?

On a separate note, what actually is the difference between OXP and whatever version it is that I have? I can't find where it would tell me, so am assuming it is plain old Outlook - any ideas? Am I wrong in understanding from peoples comments that you can install Outlook for the pda from the desktop office version? I'm a little confused here.... not for the first time, I grant you :lol:

humphrey22

08-23-2002, 04:18 PM

Click on "Help", then "About Microsoft Outlook".

DrtyBlvd

08-23-2002, 04:44 PM

I'm talking about the pda version - which doesn't show anywhere I can see, even in the 'Help' ?

Jason Dunn

08-23-2002, 05:32 PM

If the only reason they won't include Outlook XP is because it "devalues" Outlook XP, why not include Outlook 2002 instead of Outlook 2000? (I'm assuming XP and 2002 aren't the same product -- see my previous post.)

They are the same thing - so your point kinda' goes out the window... :wink:

Jason Dunn

08-23-2002, 05:36 PM

At the office we use Outlook 97/2000/XP with shared calendering (via shared folders), but no Exchange server (thank you). Much to my dismay the shared folder option has been removed/crippled in Outlook XP. So we are stuck with an older version of Outlook, or attempting to go with something else.

I was deeply ticked off when they removed it too - I had my church office running on this feature for sharing information, and they ripped it out to force people to buy Exchange servers. Bastards. :evil:

I did find a rather innovative solution though: http://outlook.4team.biz/ - not perfect, but works like a charm for most things.

Jason Dunn

08-23-2002, 05:38 PM

On a separate note, what actually is the difference between OXP and whatever version it is that I have? I can't find where it would tell me, so am assuming it is plain old Outlook - any ideas? Am I wrong in understanding from peoples comments that you can install Outlook for the pda from the desktop office version? I'm a little confused here.... not for the first time, I grant you :lol:

Outlook 2002 = Outlook XP = Office 10

In your desktop version of Outlook, under the HELP menu, select ABOUT. That will tell you what version you have.

Outlook 2000 will now be shipping with all Pocket PCs.

Pocket Outlook on the Pocket PC (which is collectively Calendar, Contacts, Tasks, and Notes) cannot be installed on a desktop PC.

Hope this clears things up! I had no idea my initial post was so confusing. :wink:

Jason Dunn

08-23-2002, 05:40 PM

pendragn

08-23-2002, 05:48 PM

(unless Outlook XP is the same as Oulook 2002 -- but I addressed that in another post)

Outlook XP = Outlook 2002

For the anal among us: Outlook XP = Outlook 2002 = Outlook 10. :wink:

OK, that makes more sense. I found it hard to believe that Outlook 2002 was not Outlook XP given that Office XP came out in 2001 (I think). But with different names and a poster who implied the two were different, I wasn't sure.

The way MS explained it at the Office XP launch was the bundle is "Office XP". The components are "Word 2002, Excel 2002, Outlook 2002, etc". Technically there is no such thing as Word XP or Outlook XP. Outlook 2002 comes with Office XP.

At least that's what they said then.

tk

scottmag

08-23-2002, 07:31 PM

Funny you should mention that. I got Office 2000 Pro for free back in 99 when I took part in a huge 3 hour long online survey for Office users. Anyone else get it that way?

Yep. If I recall correctly the survey software would not let you answer the questions too quickly just to make sure you were not clicking through the thing just for the prize. I also got Office 95 Professional for free after giving MS some feedback during the Midnight Madness download for an early version of IE. (2.0?) Then I somehow finagled a free upgrade to Office 97. They all sit in a desk with Lotus SmartSuite (free of course) since I now use a Mac. Boy it was painful to have to pay for that copy of Office X. :)

But, to get back on topic, I am so glad to be rid of Outlook.

Scott

curious

08-23-2002, 08:28 PM

Does that mean that future versions of Outlook may not be supported in Activesync?

I would seriously doubt it - that would be incredibly foolish of them to do. :? Nah, they're smarter than that...I think. :wink:

More important: how long will future versions of Activesync continue to support Outlook 2000? would be an awfully sneaky way of forcing folks to upgrade to XP or whatever comes next!

Pony99CA

08-24-2002, 01:22 AM

Spoken like a true business user. I bought Office 97 a long time ago, so I did have Outlook 97, but I suspect there are many people (even some corporate users) who don't have Office.

Considering the staggering market share that Office has, I find this very hard to believe. I know a lot of companies that use Office but not Outlook - they use Notes or another PIM-type app. But Office is always there, even in non-profit agencies.

But you're talking about companies. I'm talking about individuals who buy Pocket PCs for their personal use (like me). I only mentioned companies because I suspect there are still some that choose something else (Corel Office, for example) or that only buy one of the products (like Word 2002).

Also, don't confuse market share with penetration. Market share tells how many people use a specific product out of all people using products of that class. Penetration tells how many people use a product out of the entire base of PC users.

I'm sure Microsoft Office has a high penetration in corporate offices (but not 100%), but I suspect the penetration for home users is much less.

Steve

farnold

08-24-2002, 02:01 AM

Fujitsu-Siemens shipping the Loox with NO version of Outlook was an error on their part.

I still like to understand, where the statement comes from. Anyone has an answer to this?

Jason Dunn

08-24-2002, 04:57 AM

I still like to understand, where the statement comes from. Anyone has an answer to this?

I'm not sure what you're looking for here - the official word from Microsoft is that all Pocket PCs from now on will ship with Outlook 2000. Therefor, if the Loox came with NOTHING, that's an error by the people who created it, yes?

farnold

08-24-2002, 06:13 AM

the official word from Microsoft is that all Pocket PCs from now on will ship with Outlook 2000

Thanks for the information, Jason. That was exactely the part I didn't know and therefore asked. I must have missed this statement from MS... :oops:

AhuhX

08-24-2002, 12:38 PM

You guys are comparing features....I'm comparing UI. I don't use even half of the features built into Outlook. What matters to me is usability. How fast I can access and input information. For me Outlooks "features" obfuscate its usability. But that's my opinion.

Well actually both myself and another person pretty much said the Palm Desktop UI is plain horrid and ugly. I'll add that it is also the kind of interface that would be crippled by the addition of any more functionality to it, since it's so primitive. It's the sort of the interface you would see circa Windows 3.1, or on a Palm. No wonder you love it... ;)

I agree Palm Desktop is old and broken, but when you compare it to Outlook's clunky UI, it's a lesser of two evils.

Um, you should have said "when I compare" because other people clearly have differing opinions. See when I compare the two it is clear Palm Desktop looks like the love-child of an in-bred Hill Billy and the village idiot; Ugly and simple.

On the other hand, since you can't sync a Pocket PC to anything but Outlook this is a moot point.

On the other hand, yes you can. Try using one of the various 3rd party tools available to sync a Pocket PC to anything, but Palm Desktop.

Boy do we miss out... NOT!