What to do with wirelessly connected Pocket PCs @ home

[Andy Sjostrom]

As you know, I have begun a WiFi connected life! I've been thinking about what I can do now, and would like to kick around a couple of thoughts. I've identified three main scenarios that cover the new possibilities! Please, feel free to add your own!<br /><br />First, I can use my Pocket PC to control the home desktop PC. As the desktop PC is connected to the stereo, I can use the Pocket PC as remote control to the PC. I get the most out of the MP3s on the desktop PC's hard drive. Furthermore, I can control any of the applications running on my desktop PC, either using Terminal Services or by developing my own conduit application.<br /><br />Second, I can use my Pocket PC to connect to the Internet. All of a sudden I can reach web sites, e-mail, MSN Messenger. The Pocket PC is always online, since the WiFi is always on and my Pocket PC always sits in a separate docking station in the living room. Anytime I want, I can grab the Pocket PC, chill out on the couch and do anything on the Web. Instead of the morning paper, I use the WiFi connected Pocket PC and read the news.<br /><br />Third, I can challenge anyone in a multiplayer Pocket PC game. Just grab any of the other wirelessly connected Pocket PCs, find the best available seat around my house and let's play! Heck, invite other players on the Internet, too!<br /><br />My question to you now is: do you do these things? What things would you like to do in each of these three scenarios?<br />First, what desktop PC related activities would you like to be able to do from a WiFi connected Pocket PC?<br />Second, what would you be interested in getting ahold of, use or participate in on the Internet from your Pocket PC?<br />Third, what multiplayer Pocket PC games would you like to see and want to use in a WiFi network?<br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/breakfast_01.jpg" />

[Arne Hess]

My question to you now is: do you do these things? What things would you like to do in each of these three scenarios?
First, what desktop PC related activities would you like to be able to do from a WiFi connected Pocket PC?
Second, what would you be interested in getting hold of, use or participate in on the Internet from your Pocket PC?
Third, what multiplayer Pocket PC games would you like to see and want to use in a WiFi network?
Andy! I agree with all of the items you've listed (except gaming cause I don't play games on my Pocket PC at home).

1: Music, music and music! The killer for me but not only controlling the Desktop but also listening MP3 music if I'm in the bed, streamed from my Desktop!
2: E-Mail and Web AND MSN Messenger! Ask Giorgio for this. We have that kind of "competition" to use Messenger on every place of our houses. I think the only location where none of us used it (until now) was on the roof... ;-)
3: I don't like Games, not on the PC nor on the Pocket PC but this is another story...

[Ravenswing]

I've been using a Pocket PC with a WLAN for around 6 months.

Primarily it gets used for checking email and surfing. It's useful for looking up TV schedules and reading PPC Thoughts 8)

Gotta admit that I don't care much for multi-player games, and I don't really think PDAs were designed for the kind of gaming that makes a multi-player system interesting. Inadequate controls and the screen is too small. IMHO, of course, your mileage may vary.

Also, geek though I may be, I don't run Messenger all the time and remain connected. That's way too much like chucking away what little privacy I have left and definately smacks of not having a life outside of the Internet. That said, having Messenger available more or less anywhere can be quite useful. Let's face it, I have an answering machine on my phone so work can be ignored out of hours. The last thing I want is the bastards throwing messages at me instead! :cry:

[Andy Sjostrom]

Thanks, Arne!
What if you would check out Salcentral.com and Xmethods.com. Are there any Web Services in their directories that you'd like to be able to use from your WiFi connected Pocket PC?

[PJE]

I currently don't have WiFi for my iPaq, but I do most of the other things via a number (6) of 3Com Audrey touchscreens connected to a small PC running Homeseer (home control), IIS (web server), CDJ - CD Jukebox...

I can also access this system via WiFi from my work laptop.

With this system I use Snowcrash to access Winamp via any web browser for MP3 playback off the main machine (which is connected to my main hi-fi) - The Audreys can also play MP3s locally. I can also access 700 CDs via the cover art or other search criteria and control my hi-fi to broadcast the music over FM radio...

Together with the audio side, I can call up web pages containing the house floorplans with various lights and devices overlayed and by pressing the icon I can control them remotely...

I would recommend that you don't get into this as you'll find yourselt (like myself) becoming obsessed with controlling EVERYTHING... :wink:

Regards,

PJE

[Garry [WMA]]

Streaming Television(well its supposed to be streaming the security camera but as the PC also has a TV feed why not)

[bitbank]

Andy,
I've been connected with Wifi for the past 2 years and find it is best to use on my HPCs, not my PPCs. I like to surf the web and check email in various spots around the house and surfing the web on the tiny PPC screen just plain sucks. I use either my HP720 or Intermec 6651. I guess this would put me in the category of people who appreciate the tablet PC.

I now have the PPC Phone edition and carry my PPC everywhere. I like having some of the PPCs features integrated into my cell phone, but besides writing software for the PPC, I find it difficult to find "real" uses for it in my daily life.

L.B.

[Arne Hess]

Thanks, Arne!
What if you would check out Salcentral.com and Xmethods.com. Are there any Web Services in their directories that you'd like to be able to use from your WiFi connected Pocket PC?
Looks like these guys have some pretty nice services but like you said also in other discussion, I don’t want to access any Internet “subsets” - at least not at home where I have the full bandwidth and a flat fee.
This services looks like good one for outdoor mobile access but at home I prefer to use Pocket Internet Explorer (for PDA optimized sites) or Access’ NetFront (for all other none optimized web sites).
Maybe a kind of Pizza delivery service app of my favorite delivery services would be nice, so I don’t have to lift my butt from the couch, walk to the kitchen, take the menu and call them but that’s it - for home use.

[Andy Sjostrom]

Ouch, Arne!
Major misunderstanding!! Web Service is not ISP service. A Web Service is a program running on a Web server that you can use from any device connected to the Internet.

So, given that explanation! What Web program listed on those sites would you like to be able to use from your Pocket PC?

[Andy Sjostrom]

PJE!
What system do you use to control your home equipment?

[Andy Sjostrom]

So, if the MP3 scenario is what many use the WiFi Pocket PC for, or would envision using it for, what remote control MP3 applications out there do you use?

[TopDog]

Personally I use my WiFi-PocketPC to check my mail, chat with friends on Messenger and check whats on TV (not watch TV, but the TV-program-guide, we have an excelent service for that in Norway, called PåVei specially designed for PDA's)

What I would LOVE to do, is play Snails against my friends wireless. Snails is by far the coolest game for this platform. Cool, turnbased games with multiplayer and a humoristic touch on TCP/IP must be the future in PDA-gaming in my eyes!

[that_kid]

I do alot with my wifi connected Ipaq. I have Iremote www.mcmajeres.com installed so I can control winamp and play the mp3's that are stored on my file server. I stream them using winamp on my mp3 server which is located next to my home theater setup. I then make use of winamp zones and I send one winamp session to another soundcard in my mp3 streamer. From there it goes to the windows media encoder on the same machine which lets me stream mp3's to any computer on my network or my parents network 350 miles away via vpn ipsec. I then send that encoded stream to my windows media server, this way i only have one server exposed to the net. I can listen to my stream from anywhere on the net. Net I have multimedia server which runs snapstream www.snapstream.com I have capture card connected to one of my dss recievers in my server closet. Snapstream will change the channels on the dss and record whatever i want. I can then stream this like music over the network (wired/wirless/vpn) to any other computer or pocketpc. I have another server which runs another capture card which connects to my cable hookup, I have windows media encoder on this server as well and I encode this stream and can view live tv on my ipaq over 802.11b. I also use my ipaq for instant msgr, and terminal services so I can administer any of the servers on the network. I would like add home automation to the mix eventually.

[Arne Hess]

Ouch, Arne!
Major misunderstanding!! Web Service is not ISP service. A Web Service is a program running on a Web server that you can use from any device connected to the Internet.

So, given that explanation! What Web program listed on those sites would you like to be able to use from your Pocket PC?
No, no - I think I got your right. However, personally I don’t want to run any web service based programs at home where I have the bandwidth and the flat fee. There I want to use “html” only on Web Browsers. If I would look for a kind of information provided by this Web Services first I would try to get that information with my Web Browser.
Let’s say weather: Instead of using the xmethods “California Weather Service” I would use “pda.wetteronline.de”.

As I said before, this service seems to be cool to be used wireless outside the home with tools like WebLiquid because of optimized screen resolution and even more important - less bandwidth usage but at home I would try the Web Browser first!

[PJE]

PJE!
What system do you use to control your home equipment?

The system I use basically consists of:

HomeSeer home automation software (www.homeseer.com) controlling lights and appliances via X-10 powerline interfaces (CM11a www.x10.com). Homeseer has its own built-in webserver or you can use IIS. It has a number of standard web pages, but you can develop/modify them for the screen format you need. Homeseer can also run scripts and macros to produce very complex automation systems.
CDJ (www.nirvis.com) - CD Jukebox makes use of the Slink-e interface to control my Sony 300 & 400 Disc CD jukeboxes, as well as my amplifier. The unit also has a two way IR sub-system which allows it to control most IR devices. This is software available via the Homeseer website (forum) to link the CDJ system to Homeseer and to run the system via the webserver. A program automatically generates all the interlinked pages for the albums in the system.
Showcrash control of WinAmp - This winamp add-in allows winamp to be controlled via a web browser, and you can write your own pages code for the screen size you need. I wrote all mine for the 640x480 touchscreen available on my Audreys.

All this runs on a small PC (Shuttle Spacewalker) running Win2K.

I hope this was of help.

Regards,

PJE

[Andy Sjostrom]

That_Kid!
One word: WOW! You really have gone deep on streaming media! Hats off to you! After recovering a bit more from my WiFi nightmares, I might try it! :wink:

[Andy Sjostrom]

Arne!
So, if I could wrap these primitive functions into a smooth Web UI requiring just your Pocket Internet Explorer -- would you then be interested? If so, in what services?

[GadgetDave]

All of the above - and I'm ashamed to admit, with WiFi at home I've been known to work - both with my PDA and notebook - much to the chagrin of my wife. :(

But even better, I'm working toward a way to use the PPC to control the new home theater we're building in the basement - not just RC for the TV, Stereo, etc, but controlling lights, programming (via the PC), etc. I've looked at X-10, etc as options, and haven't decided on anything yet. I want an all-in-one interface (probably build it myself).

However, the bigger one I'm interested in is being able to control/monitor my home security system with it ... anyone know of stuff for that?

[that_kid]

GadgetDave

I want to do the same thing, I haven't found anything yet but I'm still looking.
It seems that there are alot of things which can be done with the pocketpc and all we need to do is pull all the pieces together to make it happen. I'm starting a business dealing with video editing and music production. I find that the pocketpc is usefull for this. I can play edited videos for "future" clients to show them my work. I can also let them listen to cd's that I've produced all with the pocketpc. Plus my parents (both have ipaqs) can also show their work wirelessly to people. My mom does photography and video. My dad does sound and audio/video repair. Wifi is great, I have some other wifi stories but they don't deal with pocketpc's so I'll hold off on those 8)

[RyES]

I have been working on this project in college where we are developing a wireless imaging system. We ended up using 802.11 for now, but we also can connect using a CDMA 1xRTT PC card my company makes (get one! it is a Novatel Wireless card from SprintPCS). Anyhow I can now take pictures and within a few seconds the picture is captured, transfered, edited, organized, then published. The wireless transfer makes it much more convenient, and experimenting with developing the automatic organization is cool. I go to University of California, San Diego, and one of the groups there do locationing with 802.11. So, later we are going to make the wireless imaging system automatically organize the images by location too. That will be interesting.

my wireless images are up at:
http://www.jusspress.com/month.php?name=Iflabs

here is a link to the locationing project at UCSD:
http://activecampus.ucsd.edu

locationing with 802.11 is kinda interesting, it was actually first implemented by Microsoft research I believe, but there is a bunch of research on locationing using a number of wireless technologies in the CS world

[Jason Dunn]

RyES - great stuff! If you're interested in writing an article about what you're doing, please drop me a line - I'd love to publish it!

[denivan]

I don't have WiFi, but I use my GPRS + Bluetooth connection alot for surfing and chatting (MSN). The coolest place to chat is in the bath ;)

I'm still looking for a list of optimized websites that fit the pocketpc screen. Does anyone know some kind of list? What websites do you use on your pocketpc ?

[Jason Dunn]

http://www.mymobilestuff.com is a good place to start - best resource I've seen for optimized sites.

[paqman_lover]

Here's a few things i'd like to do with my PPC:

1) Remote Start my car from anywhere. In the winter time I like to start my car 10 minutes before i want to leave so it's warmed up. Even if i buy a remote unit this doesn't help me when i'm at work and the car is to far away for the remote to work.

2) Tell my VCR/Digital Recorder to record a show from anywhere. Say I'm at work or shopping and realize I wanted to record a show. I would whip my PPC out, call up TV listing and tap on the show i want. The VCR/Digital Recorder would then record it.

3) Wire audio throughout my house to my PC and be able to use my PPC to run it. This would include specifing which rooms are to play the music and have each room be able to run independently so a sibling,parent, child could listen to what they want in whichever room separately from me at the same time.

[Jeff Rutledge]

I've been known to work - both with my PDA and notebook - much to the chagrin of my wife. :(

I do the same thing. In fact, I work from home 1-2 days per week on average. It's great. I love it that I can use my WiFi card in my laptop, combined with VPN, to access all my critial systems at the office. Gotta love being able to earn a day's pay while sitting in the back yard.

And my fiance doesn't mind at all. When I work from home, I usually putter around the house tidying up and I usually make dinner. So she doesn't mind at all. :wink:

[Jonathon Watkins]

The coolest place to chat is in the bath ;)
Depends how hot you like your baths. :lol: Personally I like mine scalding hot. :oops: NOT a good place to drop one though! 8O

I would have thought that the condensation, heat & steam would not do much good to the unit either...... unless you wrapped it in a clear waterproof bag. Hmmm - a selling opportunity for someone there.... :wink:

I just want to control MP3s and browse wirelessly at the moment. Once I get Terminal server hooked up I will look at what other things are worth doing. You still can’t beat a good 19 inch monitor for a lot of stuff (unless you have a 22 inch TFT).

[splintercell]

I have a Wi-Fi card on my iPaq, and yet at home I hardly use it, save for the occasional E-mail check and wireless diagnostic run. I don't really see the point - the IR on the pda is too weak to use as a remote (I don't have a 3900 series), the kitchen has a highly tweaked Audrey, which does its job well, considering how cheap it was, and all around the house I tote my laptop. Why should I look at a tiny 3.5" screen when I can have 15" with stereo sound, better resolution, regular full-featured applications, and at only a few pounds. I can use a VPN tunnel to get to work and Remote Desktop Connection to access my work and home computers, my home printers are networked, so the pda really has nothing left to do.
Watch TV? On an anemic little screen? If I can have a flat tube Wega display it with THX surround sound? Play games? Again on the dinky screen, where I have to squint, when I can boot up my XBOX, PS2, or PC which have more video memory that the pda does total? Umm, no.
The pda is great on the road and even in the field at work, but at home it goes on its nice place on the shelf until the next day.

[[Cruzer]]

RyES, Wow another San Diegian here and goes to UCSD as well. But I work at UCSD and was part of this project that I believe mentioned on
here earlier but here is the link with more info:

http://www.calit2.net/news/2002/4-1-bbus.html


Pretty much its using Qualcomm's CDMA2000 1xEV (aka Hornet) and
an SMC Barricade to do the NAT'ing for the clients.

RyES shoot me a PM I would like to see more of your stuff.

Thanks

[T-Will]

I currently don't have WiFi for my iPaq, but I do most of the other things via a number (6) of 3Com Audrey touchscreens connected to a small PC running Homeseer (home control), IIS (web server), CDJ - CD Jukebox...

I can also access this system via WiFi from my work laptop.

With this system I use Snowcrash to access Winamp via any web browser for MP3 playback off the main machine (which is connected to my main hi-fi) - The Audreys can also play MP3s locally. I can also access 700 CDs via the cover art or other search criteria and control my hi-fi to broadcast the music over FM radio...

Together with the audio side, I can call up web pages containing the house floorplans with various lights and devices overlayed and by pressing the icon I can control them remotely...

I would recommend that you don't get into this as you'll find yourselt (like myself) becoming obsessed with controlling EVERYTHING... :wink:

Regards,

PJE

PJE that system sounds awesome! Would you mind posting some pictures of your setup and the programs you use on your Audrey screens? Thanks!

[dagpetersson]

Ok Andy!
Welcome to the wireless world with your PPC's.

I don't know how I will be classified, but presumably as a wireless nerd...

I have two WiFi AP (no radio shade) and one bluetooth AP, so I am always connected... :D

I use it for Mail and MSN and some WebServices (only test).
Not so much "surfing" because so many webpages is not designed for handhelds (to many frames etc).

Soon I will also use it to control (with bluetooth) a recording software that is under contruction (in C#) (I will give you more information later... :wink: )

/dp

[T-Will]

How much are the Audrey's going for these days and are they tweakable? Does it have a terminal service client built-in?

[BrianCooksey]

We have a couple of databases we use to manage our home school efforts. My wife uses her PPC over wireless to access them during the school day.

In her case it's actually very impressive. Until she was able to do this, she wasn't interested in using a PPC at all. Now she even uses MSN Messenger.

In the evening, I use it to check up on the kids' status.

Now, I couldn't take it from her if I wanted to...

[Jonathon Watkins]

I was with the Audrey team at 3Com they day they heard it was cancelled. The Register broke the story and they heard about it officially 2 days later. :evil: 8O :roll: Typical of 3Com – disorganised and indifferent. :?

Audrey was a nice piece of kit – but 3Com couldn’t sustain the investment. Too ambitious and slightly ahead of it’s time. The fact that it only officially supporter palm didn’t help either. I take it that getting it working with PPCs is what you mean by ”highly tweaked”?

[PJE]

How much are the Audrey's going for these days and are they tweakable? Does it have a terminal service client built-in?

I bought a couple at $90 from TigerDirect, followed by another two, and then six more 'spares' at $20 each (of which 5 were fully working and two had never been powered on)! - Ethernet adapters were extra. I've got rid of a few over the months (friends & family), and I currently have 6 in the attic since I recently moved house - I hope to get them down next month.

There is a VNC program for the Audrey which works well as you run it at 640x480 - it seems to have trouble with larger sizes (althuogh this may have been fixed by now).

I usually use the Audrey as a remote web browser connected to the various 'web' servers running on my network.

It's a shame that the Audrey never took off. If it had a Ethernet port and a proper CF slot as standard (and WiFi would be nice) it would have been more successful. I think the main reason it didn't take off was that 640x480 is too low resolution for a modern computer - although it's fine for custom applications :wink: - and the QNX operating system could not run many other programs (for the general non-expert user).

Regards,

PJE

[splintercell]

I take it that getting it working with PPCs is what you mean by ”highly tweaked”?

Actually, not at all. In fact the kitchen Audrey replaces the need for carrying a mobile device in there. My counterpart used to tote her iBook into the kitchen for downloading recipes and quick e-mail checks, but the back and forth was sort of annoying. The tweaking mostly involves getting rid of a majority of the stock Audrey apps, installing a different browser, e-mail client, task and file managers, mapping network shares to play MP3's from one of the networked PC's...that sort of thing. Since the Audrey is QNX-based, you can telnet and ftp into it, which is a nice feature.

[commander66]

I use my IPAQ 3850 with a Socket WLAN Card and it´s great.

In the office I synchronize my mail with our Notes Server. We are using
Extended Systems XTND Connect Server which I set up for the company. I also remote control our servers with the Terminal Services and VNC.

At home I use it for mail, web browsing ( reading PPC Thoughts :wink: ) and remote controlling my XP PC. I also have Messenger & ICQ running on it. Sometimes I stream MP3s from the XP PC to the IPAQ which is then connected to my home audio system. Works :lol:

[CoreyJF]

I do a lot of streaming, some of it MP3. I appreciate what the other person had said about rather using large screens and full devices for videos and such, but for me it is all about portability. Not all of us like to be tethered to the insides of our homes. On a beautiful light, I want to sit outside under the stars and still have modern conveniences. If I am not listening to my MP3 collection, I turn on Spinner to an acoustic rock channel, launch windows media encoder and tune in from outside. I will also stream audio books from audible.com or TV recorded with snapstream. I chat on Instant messenger with old friends and of course check my email. I don't play video games. I am considering setting up some sort of home automation, but I am not sure I want to continually carry along my ipaq with pc card sleeve and wifi card. It might have to wait until I get a built in bluetooth or wifi model.

[SteveClawson]

This thread has given me some ideas I hadn't thought of....great!
I use both a Cisco PCcard and a Dlink CF card WiFi into a D-link base at home, found that both cards work well, though the Cisco gets better range at the expense of being a a battery hog. Since I work in radioTV most of my uses are media, but I use it at home for:
1) Basic web browsing of news and info sites (like this one). I'd rather sit on the back deck than at my home office chair to catch up on what's going on.
2) Monitoring and testing the streaming media services we're developing for use on PPC (as well as other platforms) at the TV radio station I work at. We do a lot of the radio satellite networking in our group, so the web streaming distribution is kind of a natural extention of that. We have a stream set up specifically for PPC of our AM station (WBNS, Columbus OH, sports talk format) at the website, and I'm encouraged that our streaming stats show a small but growing minority of listeners using PPC to listen to Ohio State and Columbus Blue Jacket Games.

http://streamdata.dispatchbroadcast.com/1460TheFanLivePPC.asx

will take you straight there if anyone wants to test...it's a 22k bitrate. It isn't a 24x7 service yet, but we're close.
For video, we're working on live streaming of our TV station (a CBS affiliate) for PPC...but the legals behind AFTRA talent in commercials is the real reason it's not a public thing yet - need to fully automate every commercail replacement with "web frienldy" ads before that happens. (We have figured out full replacement automation for the radio side). The beta stream runs at 207k, straight master control feed from the router so the quality is pretty good (there are real GI-GO issues when reducing the video to PPC size).

http://stream.dispatchbroadcast.com/10TVLive.asx

will get you there if you'd like to test - don't yell if it ain't there; it's a beta so we knock it down to tweak things occationally.
3) To remote administer servers. This is a godsend. With a combination of Terminal services, VNC and pcAnywhere, I can get to about 18 of the 20 computers in our room to fix problems, all from the PPC. Works on a dial up if needed (but a lot slower). There is something about changing groups of satellite receivers from carrier to carrier across a couple of states from a PPC...just like you were at the master control.
4) I'll use it to listen to other online radio as others have mentioned...I'll run Real player into WM encoder on my desktop, then listen to the WM stream the desktop spits out (Andy, this is a great way for people in the States to listen to SR P3 while working around the house). Use the PPC just like a transistor radio.

[rzanology]

Hey guys...I just ran out and bought a CF wifi card for my ipaq. the things I've been reading about wifi made me do it :). But not that I have it, im finding out this stuff isn't too easy. One of the things I really wanted to do was just be able to walk around and sniff some one's connection out and check e-mail and surf the web. I have the sniffing part down, but I have noooo idea how I use their connection to get online. my card is a net gear MA701 and the sniffing tool im using is ministumbler. The name of the access point comes up in mini stumbler, and the link light on the card is solid, but when I try to connect to AIM or surf a site it doesn't have the connection to do so. can anyone help me out or atlease send me to a site that has a Hot-to. Thanks guys.

[luebster]

Hey guys...I just ran out and bought a CF wifi card for my ipaq. the things I've been reading about wifi made me do it :). But not that I have it, im finding out this stuff isn't too easy. One of the things I really wanted to do was just be able to walk around and sniff some one's connection out and check e-mail and surf the web. I have the sniffing part down, but I have noooo idea how I use their connection to get online. my card is a net gear MA701 and the sniffing tool im using is ministumbler. The name of the access point comes up in mini stumbler, and the link light on the card is solid, but when I try to connect to AIM or surf a site it doesn't have the connection to do so. can anyone help me out or atlease send me to a site that has a Hot-to. Thanks guys.
Don't take this the wrong way, but don't expect anyone here to explain it to you. There are questions as to the legality of such a proposition. Yes, people do it...but don't expect us to tell you how. Try Google. There is another thread (don't have the link) in this forum debating the legality and ethics of this issue.

[Steven Cedrone]

There is another thread (don't have the link) in this forum debating the legality and ethics of this issue.

That thread is here (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8867&start=30)...

Steve

[mdshoos]

Andy,

I thoroughly enjoyed reading about the things you have done with your pocket pc and would love to learn more. I would love to listen to MLB Baseball games live with pocket pc. Also, i do not understand the use for watching TV. What are the steps i need to take in order to accomplish this ?? i have a wireless network at home and the pocket pc is a dell Axim X50v. Sharing files from desktop to pocket pc would be helpful also.

Thanx for the time
Mike