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View Full Version : What PDA/phone can pass the test?


Jason Dunn
08-16-2002, 08:30 PM
<a href="http://techupdate.zdnet.com/techupdate/stories/main/0,14179,2877510,00.html">http://techupdate.zdnet.com/techupdate/stories/main/0,14179,2877510,00.html</a><br /><br />David Berlind is sure an opinionated guy, and he shares opinions on how he feels the current crop of PDA/phone hybrids are lacking. Not surprisingly, the T-Mobile takes the bulk of the his slams. I agree with some of his points, but he's looking at it from the perspective of a heavy cell phone user - not as someone whose needs are data first and voice second. Rather than refute his points one by one on this site, I've E-mailed him and asked if he'd be interested in a head to head debate of his current list of requirements. Odds are he won't even respond, but we'll see. What do you think of his list?<br /><br />"Before getting to the list, I'd like to say something about convergence and what the T-Mobile device taught me. The T-Mobile device is powered by the Phone Edition of Microsoft's Pocket PC 2002 operating system. The group at Microsoft that is responsible for Pocket PC 2002 officially lives by the ethos that "software matters." When it comes to converged devices, I couldn't agree more. Software is the glue needed to marry a phone to a PDA in a way that produces a rich user experience that not only rivals the best phones and PDAs, but far exceeds them. After all, isn't the whole supposed to be greater than the sum of its parts? <br /><br />That said, I expected Microsoft's appreciation of software would help turn the T-Mobile device as well as other devices based on the Pocket PC OS into must haves. But I've lived with the device and the operating system long enough to say that its designers clearly lacked the inspiration needed to produce an exhilarating marriage. <br /><br />Even officials from VoiceStream admitted to me that their goal wasn't to produce the best phone. In separate conversations with Microsoft, I got the distinct feeling that they didn't think this device should be considered as a replacement for my existing phone. Excuse me? If adding Pocket PC-like PDA functionality to a telephone isn't an opportunity to produce the best phone money can buy, then I don't know what is." Source: Various

JonnoB
08-16-2002, 08:53 PM
I still wonder if this guy knows about the MS SmartPhone initiative? It is obvious what he wants is a SmartPhone device and not a PDA. If the focus is on making a great phone, then the phone is the foundation and PDA like features are added. If the PDA is the foundation, phone like features are added.

I believe it is possible to have the best of both worlds eventually... but I have not seen others come close yet, so why this anti-MS bent on first generation applications of this converging space? I think it is nothing but real anti-MS bias wrapped around by the facade of the media establishing a high-standard that no one is able to reach yet.

I can see the same thing happening with the Tablet PC. It will get trashed in the media.

Jason Dunn
08-16-2002, 08:55 PM
I say: "I enjoy reading your articles (http://techupdate.zdnet.com/techupdate/stories/main/0,14179,2877510,00.html) because you certainly have some interesting opinions, but I'm honestly surprised how much you're missing the point so badly on the concept of a PDA with phone features.

A PDA with phone features is not a phone. Period.

Modern day phones are tiny, with small screens, weak CPUs, and little to no decent software functionality. Most people pick them up, use them for calls, then put them back in their pockets. They are highly optimized devices because they do one thing - and there are distinct advantages to that. If you're a heavy phone user and you pick up a Pocket PC Phone Edition device expecting it to replace your cell phone, of course you're going to be disappointed! But if you're like me, someone who is a light cell phone user (less than 100 hours a month of talk time) but carries a cell phone everywhere anyway, a Pocket PC with phone functionality is perfect.

In reading over your list of requirements, there are many that I would like to refute. Rather than do it privately, would you be interested in some sort of "head to head debate" on-line column? I know my readers would enjoy it, and I can assure you of a lively debate. Let me know.

He says: "Sounds interesting, but no thanks. The majority of our readers say that in order for a phone to be a good phone, it better not be just as good as the best phone was 5 years ago. It had better hold its own against today's phones. Why, because if I get one of these, it's going to replace the one I carry with me know. I don't want to step back." - db

I say: "Compromise exists in everything. A laptop offers portability, but can't match the sheer power of a desktop system. A Pocket PC Phone Edition offers a richer data experience than a phone, but less battery life due to bigger screen, more powerful CPU, etc. Anyone who wants the best of everything without compromise isn't living on this plane of existence. ;-)"

JonnoB
08-16-2002, 09:16 PM
I would love to see a debate....

Let the mud fly! :twisted:

Jimmy Dodd
08-16-2002, 09:22 PM
While I agree with you Jason, I don't think this "phone with PDA features" vs. "PDA with phone features" confusion is ever really going to be resolved logically. The sheer number of cell phones wielders vs. the number of PDA-packers is always going to mean that the reviews are done from a phone standpoint. Battery life will win over utility every time.

At this point in most people's minds there are phones, PDAs, and these new hybrids. Once the Smartphone hits the mainstream we may be able to differentiate between PDAs with phone capability and Phones with PDA capability. Until that happens the MS PPCPE will always be seen as a lackluster phone first, and a connectable PDA last (if at all).

Thanks for trying to set everyone right, but don't lose any sleep over it. Most people just don't get it and probably never will.

---
Bwana jim

dunneldeen
08-16-2002, 09:26 PM
I see the whole problem in this one statement.

"If adding Pocket PC-like PDA functionality to a telephone isn't an opportunity to produce the best phone money can buy, then I don't know what is."

The thing is, a Pocket PC Phone is not a telephone with PDA functionality, it is entirely the opposite, a PDA with telephone functionality. When you realize that, one would think that your expectations would have to change.

I think it should have read "If adding telephone functionality to a PDA isn't an opportunity to produce the best PDA money can buy, then I don't know what is." But then, that wouldn't have matched the rest of his article :wink:

JonnoB
08-16-2002, 09:40 PM
'Perception is reality'

I think that Bwanajim's comment is correct. Most people will expect one thing and get another just because that is what they know. That expectation will change with the SmartPhone and people will realize the differences. It should be said however, that David Berlin should know as an observer of the industry - well enough on his own to make the distinction. He slams the T-Mobile device with his best disparaging remarks while treading lightly on anything negative he may say against Palm based solutions.

I believe it is only partly about customer expectation/perception and more about putting down anything Microsoft does.

fundmgr90210
08-16-2002, 09:45 PM
It seems that a lot of energy has been spent recently by the friends and contributors of this site on putting a positive spin on the HTC unit's less than stellar reception. I didn't know this device was so important to PPC's success?

PlayAgain?
08-16-2002, 09:52 PM
I can see the same thing happening with the Tablet PC. It will get trashed in the media.

I beg to differ. There isn't much around at the moment that does what a TabletPC will be able to do. It is breaking new ground (IMHO).

However, when Microsoft finally get to release their smartphone, it'll be joining an already established market. With the T68, 7650, 9210, 9290, 9210i, P800, 7210, Treo and others which will be already on the market, what Microsoft will be pushing as new will be old hat and the public will think "Hmmmm, there's nice - but just more of the same".

Don't believe me? Just look at Andy's excitement over recordable ringtones - that's old technology that people have been enjoying for years yet Microsoft seems to think it's a new idea!

But TabletPC stuff? Not many (if any) people have already done that, it's new. So in that field, I say "Go Microsoft!" and I think the media will back Microsoft in that innovation.

Sorry, a little off topic but I'm sure you'll have no trouble ignoring me :cry: !

JonnoB
08-16-2002, 09:55 PM
It seems that a lot of energy has been spent recently by the friends and contributors of this site on putting a positive spin on the HTC unit's less than stellar reception. I didn't know this device was so important to PPC's success?

Reception by the press or reception over the air?

I doubt that the HTC will be the last of its kind. What will indicate success in the phone industry will be what the landscape looks like for smartphone devices 12-18 months after they are launched. The PDA+Phone market will be more mature and distinct by then.

It is too early to say it is a success or failure, but I have little patience for 'industry analysts/commentators/pundits' speaking in a position of media authority who haven't the slightest clue to how these devices are meant to be used and nary mention that there is both a phone centric solution and a PDA centric solution to meet different tastes/needs.

JonnoB
08-16-2002, 09:58 PM
Sorry, a little off topic but I'm sure you'll have no trouble ignoring me :cry: !

Tempting...

scrinch
08-16-2002, 10:04 PM
I read Berlind's article and honestly don't find much wrong with his wish list. Where I think he is mistaken is that he apparently expects to find these features in convergence devices this early in their development. It has taken 20 years, with generation after generation of hardware and software, (and billions of devices manufactured and sold) to bring cellular phones to where they are today. PDA's have only really seen significant development for less than 10 years, and they are obviously still far from being technologically mature. It is unreasonable to expect a hybrid between these two technologies to be mature and fully featured this early in their development. Look at all the alternative solutions being tried....operating systems, input modes, screen technology....not to mention the simultaneous development of the 3G networks and their commercialization. H*ll, the "communicator" manufacturers don't really even know what the devices are going to be used for on the 3G networks...how can they build an optimized device yet?

Nonetheless, I think Berlind is doing us all a favor by compiling a list of what many people would like to see in some next-generation devices. I just hope he doesn't scare too many away from supporting the development of the technology by buying this generation.

pt
08-16-2002, 10:06 PM
It seems that a lot of energy has been spent recently by the friends and contributors of this site on putting a positive spin on the HTC unit's less than stellar reception. I didn't know this device was so important to PPC's success?

i'm a "friend" of this site. i can care less about this being a success, i've got a great device.

here's my story. i've had just about every phone, wireless and pda and / combo in the last 3 years.

i just moved from my t68 and ipaq combo to the pocket pc phone, if it sucked i'd go back. but it doesn't, i love it.

i think these reviews are accurate.

http://www.brighthand.com/newsite/features/tmobile.html
http://www.the-gadgeteer.com/tmobile-review.html

if another phone / pda comes along that's better, i'd ditch this one.

cheers,
pt

Brad Adrian
08-16-2002, 10:50 PM
'Perception is reality'

Well, EXPECTATION is reality. I think this battle of helping people "get it" is going to quickly venture down the same avenue as helping people "get" why the Pocket PC operating system is superior to Palm's. Many of these reviewers are not PDA users and do not expect to be playing with an enhanced PDA, they're expecting to have an enhanced phone. Expectations are too deeply rooted in personal experience and history to be easily realigned.

pt
08-16-2002, 11:01 PM
Expectations are too deeply rooted in personal experience and history to be easily realigned.

well said.

tom kelly from IDEO was interviewed and they were walking around a hardware store...it was great to watch. IDEO designed parts of the palm and handspring amongst other stuff.

fiberglass ladders are better in every way compared to wooden ones, but you'll always see people buy wooden ones. plastic funnels, better in most ways--people still like metal ones. long reach lighters for lighting grills, better than matches...but people will always buy matches...

some things won't change, well--at least some people's expectations that is. a champagne cork could be redesigned making it 10x better, but there's something kinda magical and nice about the struggle to open one, the cork, the whole thing. that won't change. other things may.

once something has phone abilities, it'll be held up against the customary phone experience. not have real buttons to press is something some folks won't be able to get past. that said, sometimes people flock to stuff you wouldn't expect. tons of people use ear pieces now, there were many motivating factors, but it happened, so if the results justifies the actions people will learn (and embrace) stuff. lots of people learned grafitti, lots of people learned to type.

cheers,
pt

Dance Monkeyboy
08-16-2002, 11:29 PM
People will change when they begin to perceive a value in changing. Rabbit ears gave way to cable and satellite. VCR's gave way to DVD's even though Laserdisk was a failure. I still remember rotary phones and cell phones that you carried like a briefcase.
Smartphones and PDA's with phone capabilities will become accepted eventually. The reason is simple: connectivity. People like to Instant Message and they can't do it from their existing phones. People like to get fast access to web information and they can't do it with their existing phones and booting up a laptop takes too long. Don't get me started on the plethora of location based games that will be coming down the pipeline (for kids and adults.)

The convergence of numerous technologies is taking hold RIGHT NOW and we are only at the nascent stage. Nationwide networks with CDMA or GPRS will provide data to most anyone in an urban setting. New versions of PalmOS and PPC PE along with faster, smarter ASIC's in phones will make for better, quicker devices with more powerful technology. The power you will hold in your cellphone in 2004 will likely surpass the processing power of computers 3 years ago. Battery life will experience some movement forward as the need grows and the cries become deafening. Less expensive screens and more intutive interfaces will result. Bluetooth is here to stay and will make headphones (hearing aid size earbuds, actually) a reality. All of the technology will be utilized in an efficient, user-friendly manner that will make adoption of the next generation of communication technology a reality (and something that we will eventually wonder, "how did we get along without this?")

This next generation will last for several years, nearly a decade, before we begin to see bionics take off with communication capabilities. Think: built in phones and communication devices right into the human body.

Jason Dunn
08-16-2002, 11:35 PM
I didn't know this device was so important to PPC's success?

The future of all PDAs will be in having integrated wireless of one kind or another. 24 months from now, a non-wireless PDA will be rare. So, yes, this is an important evolution worth discussing. My apologies if were boring you. :roll:

GadgetDave
08-17-2002, 12:45 AM
David Berlind is sure an opinionated guy

Generally, I find Mr. Berlinds comments lacking perspective and completeness. He sometimes seems to have an anti MS bias, and certainly while he can be seen as a promoter for people who live on the bleeding edge (some of us :D ) he generally seems to have no clue from the perspective of us who also set standards and practices for major corporations. Corporate people see this stuff very differently - sometimes even differently in their personal life and work life.

That being said, he makes several points that are worth thinking about - and as has been said in this thread already, this is the first of many of these devices, and obviously, improvement will come. But this one is a pretty good shot at it (from my few hours with one).

We'll see what the next 12 months brings ...

DrtyBlvd
08-17-2002, 01:13 AM
Following JD's post - that the pda with connection abilities serves two purposes; voice or data; someone somewhere made the point that they wouldn't buy one unless it replaced their cellphone - which it is never going to do; so whats the problem? People want it to? Then those same people will have to tolerate the differences, right?

No one is going to buy a pda to replace their phone unless of a certain ilk; and that is a small market...

Far easier to have a 'stylish' phone, that will enable connection with your pda, than one thing trying to do two things less effectively perhaps? Now teach the phone to sync wahey...interesting... an ideal? Maybe a 7650 and an ipaq, I don't know - but I think thats the way it's going to go for the next ten years - with 'both' (or all three if WiFi gets a good foothold)

Separately -
You know what gets me? The thought of my stubble on the screen. The thought of someone with a [i]beard trying to use one. Someone who suffers from Acne. Bring on the hands free I guess.

fmcpherson
08-17-2002, 04:00 AM
Here is the problem. The device name has the word phone in it. That one word is setting an expectation that the device is not designed to meet.

The funny thing is, what if the device only had data capabilities? Then the complaints would be, why didn't Microsoft include support for voice, if even by a handfree mic. It may be a no win situation.

JonnoB
08-17-2002, 04:07 AM
Here is the problem. The device name has the word phone in it. That one word is setting an expectation that the device is not designed to meet.

The naming convention I think is correct.
Pocket PC Phone Edition :
The name with 'Phone Edition' is a qualifier.. It is a Pocket PC of which there are multiple editions... this being with some phone features, so it is the Phone Edition. It is a Pocket PC first.
SmartPhone:
SmartPhone however says what it is, a phone first, with some 'Smart' features. This is a phone made smart... but mostly just a phone.


The funny thing is, what if the device only had data capabilities? Then the complaints would be, why didn't Microsoft include support for voice, if even by a handfree mic. It may be a no win situation.

I am sure those complaints would surface. It could actually be a perfect device (it isn't) and because it had a MS logo, there would be plenty of people who would chant how terrible it is.

fundmgr90210
08-17-2002, 07:29 AM
I didn't know this device was so important to PPC's success?

The future of all PDAs will be in having integrated wireless of one kind or another. 24 months from now, a non-wireless PDA will be rare. So, yes, this is an important evolution worth discussing. My apologies if were boring you. :roll:

I agree, ufortunately this flavor of wireless device apparently aint the answer.

BTW, no reason to get offended. I never said I found it boring, just curious.

Pony99CA
08-17-2002, 08:22 AM
I say: "I enjoy reading your articles (http://techupdate.zdnet.com/techupdate/stories/main/0,14179,2877510,00.html) because you certainly have some interesting opinions, but I'm honestly surprised how much you're missing the point so badly on the concept of a PDA with phone features.

A PDA with phone features is not a phone. Period.

Modern day phones are tiny, with small screens, weak CPUs, and little to no decent software functionality. Most people pick them up, use them for calls, then put them back in their pockets. They are highly optimized devices because they do one thing - and there are distinct advantages to that. If you're a heavy phone user and you pick up a Pocket PC Phone Edition device expecting it to replace your cell phone, of course you're going to be disappointed! But if you're like me, someone who is a light cell phone user (less than 100 hours a month of talk time) but carries a cell phone everywhere anyway, a Pocket PC with phone functionality is perfect.

In reading over your list of requirements, there are many that I would like to refute. Rather than do it privately, would you be interested in some sort of "head to head debate" on-line column? I know my readers would enjoy it, and I can assure you of a lively debate. Let me know.

He says: "Sounds interesting, but no thanks. The majority of our readers say that in order for a phone to be a good phone, it better not be just as good as the best phone was 5 years ago. It had better hold its own against today's phones. Why, because if I get one of these, it's going to replace the one I carry with me know. I don't want to step back." - db

I say: "Compromise exists in everything. A laptop offers portability, but can't match the sheer power of a desktop system. A Pocket PC Phone Edition offers a richer data experience than a phone, but less battery life due to bigger screen, more powerful CPU, etc. Anyone who wants the best of everything without compromise isn't living on this plane of existence. ;-)"

Why didn't you at least mention that SmartPhone is what David wants? You criticized his review without pointing out the alternative he really should be looking at.

Personally, I don't get why someone would want a Pocket PC Phone Edition PDA as a phone. I'd use it as a PDA and for online connectivity only, and still carry my real phone when I went out. Around the house, however, I'd only carry the connected PDA.

Over at Brighthand, they had the "one piece" vs. "two piece" debate at least twice, and I view myself as a 1.5 piece person. A PDA with a Bluetooth link to a phone might be OK when I went out, but not around the house.

Of course, maybe I only feel this way because I haven't actually tried a Phone Edition device.... If someone wants to send me one to prove me wrong, though, I'm game. :lol:

Steve

Jason Dunn
08-19-2002, 04:36 PM
Why didn't you at least mention that SmartPhone is what David wants? You criticized his review without pointing out the alternative he really should be looking at.

I'm quite sure he knows about the SmartPhone devices, but if he mentioned it in his article, it would be an acknowledgement that Microsoft recognizes the two distinct groups of people and their needs, and that would undermine Berlind's whole rant, because he's have to explain the differences, and in doing so he'd be explaining what I'm trying to communicate to him: a Pocket PC Phone Edition is NOT primarily a phone.

Pony99CA
08-19-2002, 05:00 PM
Why didn't you at least mention that SmartPhone is what David wants? You criticized his review without pointing out the alternative he really should be looking at.

I'm quite sure he knows about the SmartPhone devices, but if he mentioned it in his article, it would be an acknowledgement that Microsoft recognizes the two distinct groups of people and their needs, and that would undermine Berlind's whole rant, because he's have to explain the differences, and in doing so he'd be explaining what I'm trying to communicate to him: a Pocket PC Phone Edition is NOT primarily a phone.

Yes, but even so, by pointing out it out, you're not only saying that Pocket PC Phone Edition devices are not primarily phones, you're also pointing out that there are devices that are primarily phones.

If he didn't know about them, pointing it out would help him. If he does know about them, you're pointing out that some of his readers already know about SmartPhones and that he should discuss them.

But perhaps it's just a matter of differing styles. I like to give as much information as I can and "destroy" something as many ways as possible. :-)

Steve

Jason Dunn
08-19-2002, 05:27 PM
Yes, but even so, by pointing out it out, you're not only saying that Pocket PC Phone Edition devices are not primarily phones, you're also pointing out that there are devices that are primarily phones.

You're right, I made an error. My apologies.