Random XDA musings, part 2

[Jason Dunn]

Now that I'm living the connected life with Tanto my XDA, there's a specific issue I want to spur some discussion on. It involves the issue of presence, and I'd like to hear your thoughts on it. I think that as more and more of us get connected, this will become a real issue, and I'd like to make my stance on it now. In some ways, it's a matter of etiquette.<br /><br />The issue is this: I've seen a pattern among people that get a mobile connection, usually via GPRS. They register another Passport account and sign in as "Name (Mobile)". The end result is that I end up with them in my contact list twice, and at some point both are logged in. So which one do I contact? Which one is the person really at?<br /><br />Instant messaging services like Windows Messenger (MSN Messenger) are about one thing: presence. Even if you have Messenger installed on multiple computers or devices, when you sign on to that device, it signs you out of the other ones - you are active only on the device you are using, which is the way it's meant to be. Looking at my contact list is the equivalent of looking around the room and seeing each person sitting in front of their computer or carrying their connected Pocket PC in their pocket. If you're logged in, you're there (unless your state is set to away, etc.) If I see you on the list, I know you're connected, and if I send you a message you'll get it sooner or later. Now the exciting thing about IM is that it simply reports your on-line presence - not what device you're using, nor where you are. When I see that <a href="http://www.flashenabled.com/mobile">pt</a> is on-line and I send him a message, I don't know or care where/how he's on-line - just that he's there.<br /><br />So the question is, why have two Passport accounts? Why tie the concept of IM to a device instead of to your presence? The only logical reason for this might be if you want to have two unique contact lists that don't intermingle, but barring that, I question why people do this. So what do you think? Am I missing something here? You dual-Passport people, speak up! <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif" />

[TBone]

I accumulate an extra name every now and then when I forget my password. &lt;grin> Usually I figure it out after a week or so, though.

[Arne Hess]

Am I missing something here? You dual-Passport people, speak up!
Okay, okay Jason... I know I'm one of the guys in your list with two accounts... ;-)
The reason is easy:

- Yes, the desktop list isn't the same like the PPC list. While I allow near everybody to see me on the desktop I don't want it on my PPC
- MSN Messenger on PPC doesn't supports everything the desktop version supports, so many people tried to send files in the past to my PPC
- The user on the other side should know that replies might needs longer cause I'm using a stylus
- I want to show everybody else, that I have an xda/WDA in my hand... :lol:
- I want to increase the user count of Passport to help MSFT... :lol:

No, if I could differentiate between desktop and PPC in the Messenger client and give different user access to the list, depending which device I'm using and the available MSN services would be displayed, depending on the weakest Messenger client, I would use only one in future.

[jmulder]

OK, I'll hang my head in shame...I have 2 passport accounts. :cry:

In my case, I'm trying to move from one passport acount to another. I recently signed up for a service that I wanted attached to my own domain rather than a Hotmail account, so I got the second passport. Let me tell you, I'm paying for my infraction...what a pain to deal with MSN explorer and a new passport. :shocked!:

Now that I've confessed to my sins, I agree with you completely. What good is it to have Messenger if it doesn't contact you wherever you are. In fact, if I ever get a Smartphone 2002, I'll use it for Messenger while at work or "out", and my PC when I'm at home. (And I'll only use one account, I promise!)

-Jim

[igreen]

Perhaps it is to keep their two lives separate. That is their "work" life and their "personal" life. I do something like this with email. I don't sync my Ipaq with my work INBOX because A.) MS didn't allow the PPC OS to sync via different services to different mail accounts...a very annoying thing. B.) As a result I don't want my personal and work email intermingling. Perhaps it is similar with IM. While at work behind the "Snooped" Corporate IT firewall, they are MR X, and on their free time elsewhere they are MR Y.

[splintercell]

I used to have to ICQ accounts for that reason: one for my PC and one for my handheld when I still had OmniSky. Apart from not giving everybody the second account name and thus limiting the mobile messages to only the ones I deemed important, I also thought it helped my friends realize whether I was on the road or not. I was never logged in as both simultaneously - I'd either be "mobile" or not. I wish IM clients added a status option such as "Using Handheld" to the usual "Away", "Busy" and so forth, because then I'd just use one account and people could tell where I am.

[kdross]

I have two Passport accounts... one for my desktop, and one 'Mobile' one, too. My primary reason is because I use MSN Messenger a lot, and when I ActiveSync my handheld, if I had MSN Messenger open in the background, it logs in and forces me out of my desktop MSN Messenger.

I don't want to start answering MSN Messenger messages on my handheld when my I'm really sitting in front of both devices.

[rubberdemon]

I guess this is also an issue depending on how you're paying for your bits. If it's all you can eat, then I'd be much more likely to let anyone access me who can also access my home IM account. If I'm being gouged by a telco (much more likely), then I would be likely just to give my mobile IM account to people I want to reach me anywhere, and save a few k.

That said, when I had a few weeks with a GPRS card, I kept my regular account because it was very cool to be able to tell people I was in a park or on the ferry when we were chatting... and as someone said, why spend the bucks if nobody knows you are a king or queen geek?

[brntcrsp]

I used to do this sort of thing, until I became more proactive in updating my profile depending on location. Yes, I would agree that it is time consuming and a little irksome, but with some good housekeeping habits you can manage your IM connection fairly well. I for one always change my Messenger Name depending on what device I'm at or where I'm sitting. i.e. At the office I'm brntcrsp - work, on the Pocket PC brntcrsp - PPC, at home brntcrsp.

When I move from one location to the next I also block those that I don't want contacting me while I'm on a particular machine.

The only good thing about preserving two accounts is when you want to IM yourself for something. For example, setting up a separate Passport will enable you to transfer files between your machines, and run remote desktop, via a request. Benefits to be had, as well as disadvantages.

[mgd]

Arne has pretty much summed it up for me. If would be great if Messenger supported configurable profiles--like cell phones.

[Jason Dunn]

Interesting concepts - thanks for sharing everyone! So the consensus seems to be that the need for two IM profiles is to work around the limitations of the software. If you could define who could see you based on the device you're using, with a more robust contact list manager, it would be easier, right? Or if the IM software would report to the other person what device you are on and therefor what they can't do (ie: send files).

Ok, so it's not quite as clear cut as I thought. ;-) I'm still only going to have one - it's a moral issue for me. :lol: :wink:

[Wes Salmon]

I got my second IM account because my first (which is 5 years old, before Microsoft Instant Messenger even existed) is bombarded by spam non-stop. I use messenger for my job and I didn't want to see "See Brittany's BARE ..." email notifications pop up in a window in the corner of my screen every 10 minutes or so. :D

(Yes I know I can filter spam and delete it automatically so I never see those notifications, but I like having ~2.3MB of spam in my hotmail inbox which only accounts for email for the past 5 days or so. Maybe one day Hotmail will lock my account like they have threatened to do for almost a year now and start bouncing my email back to spammers, then I'll finally start getting off of some of these lists.)

Having a mobile specific persona makes sense due to the fact that the two clients support different things and there's no need to send a netmeeting request to my Pocket PC MSN client.

[heliod]

I am one of those that is still FIGHTING for NOT getting a second address (although I have one in ICQ and one in Messenger). But:

KDRoss wrote:

I have two Passport accounts... one for my desktop, and one 'Mobile' one, too. My primary reason is because I use MSN Messenger a lot, and when I ActiveSync my handheld, if I had MSN Messenger open in the background, it logs in and forces me out of my desktop MSN Messenger.

The fact that Microsoft plugged messenger in Outlook express, and somehow, in my XP machine, this leaves something on memory even after I logout of email and Messenger, keeps Messenger trying to login at home every 15 minutes some days, and this bothers a lot when you are using yuor mobile and always being thrown out of Messenger.

BTW, regarding what was said by Arne, I am really enjoying using the new Portrait version as a substitute for my messenger client.

[sweetpete]

The fact that Microsoft plugged messenger in Outlook express, and somehow, in my XP machine, this leaves something on memory even after I logout of email and Messenger, keeps Messenger trying to login at home every 15 minutes some days, and this bothers a lot when you are using yuor mobile and always being thrown out of Messenger.

BTW, regarding what was said by Arne, I am really enjoying using the new Portrait version as a substitute for my messenger client.

You can turn off the annoying auto-logon in both OE and XP. I have done both so this doesn't happen and I recommend you to do the same. To do this go to the Messenger options and turn off "Run this program when Windows starts" under the preferences tab. Then go to the options in OE (Tools :arrow: Options) and de-select "Automatically logon to Windows Messenger"

Back to Jason's question ... I took a stance against people that have dual accounts and blocked one of the 2 and told them why. It's annoying as hell because most people don't manage their online status and figuring out where to message them is maddening :evil:
I found some people just don't know that you get logged off the other location and were grateful. Others have reasons such as the ones stated above (and some are valid). I've been hoping and waiting for more robust features, but each new version has brought small changes. I would love to have a OS aware clients that grey out features at the other side, but I don't understand this selective blocking :? :?: To each his own

[Arne Hess]

Interesting concepts - thanks for sharing everyone! So the consensus seems to be that the need for two IM profiles is to work around the limitations of the software. If you could define who could see you based on the device you're using, with a more robust contact list manager, it would be easier, right? Or if the IM software would report to the other person what device you are on and therefor what they can't do (ie: send files).
Yes, you got it but I want to have both. Several contact lists, depending on the device/profile (like work, home, mobile) I'm using (best to be done automatic) and that kind of service recognition, depending on the devices/IM versions...
Also there is space for improvements on the PPC PE IM side like sending a SMS to offline contacts with predefined texts like "Please connect to MSN IM" and also self created messages.

[scottmag]

Great discussion, guys. I think that although Jason framed the questions as specific to Passport and MS Messenger, they apply to Yahoo, AIM, and the others as well.

I think that this situation is similar to having multiple phone numbers. Having phone numbers tied to locations is an anachronism and should go away with the advancement of mobile technology. After all, you want to call a person not a location. It's obnoxious to have to try someone's work number first, then mobile number if they do not answer, then wonder if they are at home or if you should call back to the office number to leave the message there.

For IM, it does seem that it is a software/system limitation that prevents users from having one ID that can be "handed off" from a desktop to a mobile device. But there is also a personal component that would keep some from using the option even if it were available (i.e., personal vs. work contact lists).

I think a workaround is to use a status message when logged in via a mobile device. Most IM clients will show status in the buddy list so create one called "Mobile." I would have it function like a detailed away message and return a message indicating how I was logged in. For example, create a status called "Mobile" that returns the message "I am currently logged in via such-and-such device and may be unable to respond to you immediately. Please do not try to send files or long messages to me at this time." That also gives you some breathing room about response time so you do not have to reply if it is inconvenient or dangerous to do so. You could also choose to ignore work-related messages on personal time this way.

Not a perfect solution, but better than maintaining two separate accounts.

Scott

[Pony99CA]

I don't use MSN Messenger (although I do have a Passport account); I use AOL Instant Messenger (and AOL itself). I have several screen names -- one that everyone knows, which I generally use when I'm on AOL, and another "secret" name that only a few people know (those I never mind IMs from).

I found that if I just used AIM under my main name, I'd get a bunch of IMs from people I didn't feel like talking to at the time. So I started logging on under my secret name, and told the people I never minded chatting with that name.

Yes, sometimes that leads me to being logged on under both names if I'm on both AOL and AIM, but I tell people that if they see my main name logged on, they should IM me there.


I think a workaround is to use a status message when logged in via a mobile device. Most IM clients will show status in the buddy list so create one called "Mobile."


AOL and AIM already do this. There's something called the AOL Mobile Communicator (I think), and if someone is logged on using one, IMs from them show up saying they are mobile users. I think clicking on the mobile icon even gives suggestions on chatting with mobile users (be brief, expect longer delays, expect terser replies, etc.).

Steve

[dunneldeen]

I must admit that I have a lot of on-line chat presence. 1 AIM login, 3 MSN logins, and 1 ICQ login.

AIM because I have a LOT of buddies who use only AIM
ICQ because I have had it for a LONG time, but I don't use it much.
MSN because it has the best mobile client, and seems most common among family and non-techie friends (it comes with the XP OS after all.)

My 3 MSN accounts are Work, Home and (yes) mobile. Seperate Home and Work accounts seem obvious, so I won't say more. The reason I have a seperate Mobile account is because I do a lot of yo-yo'ing between "at my desk" and "in a conference" or "walking around." Having the same account on my desktop and mobile devices would surely be better for my contacts, but is murder to log into one and out-of the other every time I sync my pda. What I need is for MSN messenger on my PC to detect that I've logged in on my PDA and stop, then detect that I have logged out of my PDA and start the PC connection back up. It seems like something microsoft could build into the application. Or if somehow the backend servers in the MSN messenger network could be told that a person's 2 accounts are related and to send messages "here" if active, otherwise send "here", based on user preference.

A simple example of this is the AT&T Instant Messanger, which can be told (on the backend) to send a message to your pager if someone sends you a message while you are off-line.

Maybe someone can write an application that frequently looks for your PDA presence, and connects/disconnects your PC connection appropriately. That would be nice too.