HanDBase 3.0 ships!

[Ed Hansberry]

<a href="http://www.ddhsoftware.com/handbase_ppc.html">http://www.ddhsoftware.com/handbase_ppc.html</a><br /><br />I gave you a preview of HanDBase <a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1728&highlight=handbase">back in mid-June</a>. Well, just over a month later, it is shipping. By far one of the coolest features is forms, shown below. I need to put it through its paces and will be doing a full review soon.<br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/hansberry/2002/20020725-handbase3.jpg" /><br /><br />Be patient on downloading. The last time they released a Pocket PC client, it slowed their servers to a crawl. They have since tripled capacity but now all Pocket PC <i><b>and</b></i> Palm HanDBase 2.x users will be vying for their slice of bandwidth.

[aBrentk]

Looking forward to your review, Ed, especially if you can provide some comparisons to other existing DBs that already provide forms (such as SprintDB Pro, which is what I've been using).

[GadgetMan]

Well, I upgraded to HanDBase Professional 3.0, the version that is advertised to come with Forms Designer.

Upon installation I discovered that the product is incomplete. Although it does have Forms Designer module for desktop, the Pocket PC equivalent is missing. When I tap on Forms icon on my PPC all I get is "Coming Soon!" message :( Same happens when I tap on Extras icon.

I could not find anything on their web site indicating that they were shipping incomplete product. I paid expecting full functionality, as advertised on their web site.

I think I should request my money back...

George

[Ed Hansberry]

Upon installation I discovered that the product is incomplete. Although it does have Forms Designer module for desktop, the Pocket PC equivalent is missing. When I tap on Forms icon on my PPC all I get is "Coming Soon!" message :( Same happens when I tap on Extras icon.
There are no "extras" yet - that is a place holder for future info. The PPC version of forms is coming soon and will be part of your package - no extra cost AFAIK. However, my desktop version doesn't have the forms package. :( I have an email into them on this. I understood that the 3.0 release would have forms on the desktop, so I await clarification.

[GadgetMan]

Ed,

I downloaded HanDBase 3.0 Professional this morning. The Desktop version came with Forms Designer module. However, the Pocket PC version came without it.

Now, when you look at DDH Software's web site there is no word that Forms Designer module for Pocket PC would be "coming later". On the contrary, they trumpet it all over the place that HanDBase 3.0 Professional INCLUDES Forms Designer.

They actually display a large button on the right side of the screen saying that you can upgade to Pro version, which INCLUDES Forms Designer (with words "Desktop Palm Pocket PC" displayed on top). Based on that ad I purchased the upgrade only to find out that the most important compoment (the main reason I decided to upgrade) is missing.

Also, down towards the bottom of the page they describe what components come with what version. Both Professional and Enterprise editions are shown as contaning HanDBase Forms, without indicating that the handheld versions are really not included.

All they had to say that Forms Designer would ship later and it would be free to all who purchase or upgrade to Professional version. They chose not to do so. Now, if this is not false advertising, then I do not know what is...

On top of that the manual which came with the software is incomplete (missing images) and I already found a major bug that prevents me from using an important database I imported from version 2.77. I already spoke to their Tech Support about that and they are to forward this problem - which they were able to replicate but not solve - to the developer.

George

[ddhsoftware]

Thanks guys for your straight up talk. Most of us have been without sleep for several days getting all of this v3.0 stuff onto the web site. From back at the HanDBase Summit in June we knew that the HanDBase Forms Pocket PC client would not be ready for release, and we announced it there, but neglected to be clear on the new website about this. Here's the official scoop:

- HanDBase Forms are supported by all three clients- HanDBase Palm OS, HanDBase Pocket PC, and HanDBase Desktop. Any 3.0 version of HanDBase will read and use forms if they (the forms .PDB files) are present on the device.

- The HanDBase Forms visual editor is available for HanDBase Professional and Enterprise packages right now on the desktop for both handheld platforms, and it is also available on the Palm OS. We're in development of the handheld version, but I would not expect this for at least another month or two. (The Palm OS version of the forms designer was in development from before the initial release of Microsoft's Pocket PC OS, so we have a little catching up to do!).

- On the web site we accidentally included the wrong info in the Pocket PC's software packages page of the site. I promise you this was unintended- several of us here are very anal about being sure the 'what's included' is accurate. We'd rather not sell an app at all than sell it and have an unsatisfied customer!

The webmaster is correcting this page right now so that it accurately reflects what's in each package. I apologize for any inconvenience this may cause and hope this doesn't reflect us as a company who is intentionally false advertising. Would never want that to be the case- quite the contrary. There were so many things being done at the same time here, unfortunately this probably won't be the last typo on the site.

To George and others, as with all of our products, we have a 30 day refund policy, so please contact us: Toll-Free 1-877 334 4608 x2 for a refund if you so desire. You can always purchase it again when the handheld version is available if you'd so desire, and I sincerely hope this has not changed the way you view our company to that degree.

Again my apologies for unintentionally posting this misinformation. Certainly was not intentionally misleading customers- that's not at all what we're about!

[Ed Hansberry]

Again my apologies for unintentionally posting this misinformation. Certainly was not intentionally misleading customers- that's not at all what we're about!
If I've muddied this up any I am sorry. Actually, I am still looking for the forms app on the desktop. :?

[Marcel_Proust]

It's too bad about the form designer not being available on the PocketPc yet, but the situation is not that tragic. You can still design the forms on the desktop. I rather have this than wait another month. Handbase is easily the best database program for the pocketpc. SprintDB is probably more powerful, but only to programmers. For the average and above average user, it's the way to go.
I am concerned about the bug someone on this reported. What was it? I am about to port over my databases and I guess I'll make backups first.

[Jimmy Dodd]

I downloaded the (free) upgrade from 2.7x to 3.0 which went well. Unfortunately, I didn't get the Forms Designer either. Very dissappointed about it. I'm pretty sure I had the Pro version before, but how can you tell?

---
Bwana Jim

[clach04]

I've not had chance to dload the new 3.0 version but from reading posts here it looks like forms desinger is not availble if you are a "normal" existing 2.x user.

Can any one clarify that the current 3.0 desktop version does NOT have forms designer but that you need the professional version (which has an offer of 14.95 for an upgrade for existing users).

It sounds like it is worth the upgrade to the professional version (for me at any rate) if this is the case. 15 bucks is pretty reasonable.

Chris

[Jimmy Dodd]

I agree that $14.95 is well worth paying. I still don't know how to tell what version I have, though.

I also tried to upgrade but I never got an upgrade option on my screen. Following the upgrade ad I logged in, only to be met by a screen that showed me what I had already purchased. No upgrade offer was present.

Maybe they're still updating the system for 3.0?

---
Bwana Jim

[GadgetMan]

First of all, thanks to David Haupert from DDH Software for clarifying the situation with Forms Designer for Pocket PC. I do not mind waiting for this module. I am also glad that DDH Software modified their site to explain that the missing module is still in development and will be available at the later date.

Please note that if you currently are HanDBase Plus user and choose free upgrade to HanDBase 3.0 on DDH Software's site, you will receive HanDBase Plus 3.0. This version does not include Forms Designer (neither desktop nor handheld version).

If you wish to obtain Forms Designer (currently only available for desktop module, Pocket PC version in development), you need to upgrade to either HanDBase Professional 3.0 (at a special discount price of $14.99 until the end of August) or HanDBase Enterprise 3.0. Once Forms Designer is released for Pocket PC, registered Professional and Enterprise users will receive it free of charge.

I personally went for HanDBase Professional as I really want both desktop and Pocket PC Forms Designer and consider $14.99 to be a very reasonable upgrade price.

One more thing. I had a very productive e-mail exchange with David Haupert this evening and must tell you that he is hard at work squashing some nasty bugs in desktop and PPC modules. Expect new release very soon.

Cheers,

George

[GadgetGuy]

I take the DDH comments posted here (to their credit) at face value---no deception intended. BUT look at the site! There are PPC graphics all over the place showing version 3 with Forms on a Pocket PC!

And there is NOTHING to indicate that this is, from a purchaser's standpoint, still vaporware.

It seems a little hard to believe that this was an "oversight." More likely, it was a business decision. "Heck, the Palm and desktop versions are done, let's launch!"

Now DDH is hardly the first software company to have its marketing communications ready before the software. But to not put a prominent statement in text that clearly contradicts all those images that imply that a product is for sale now when, in reality, it is no less than weeks, maybe months away, is plain not acceptable. And neither is the defense: Sorry we were too eager to be accurate. That is not a credible explanation.

So HanDBase on PPC fans, what can you download now that will produce forms? Looks like the Pro version which is a step-up from the Plus that many of us have now on our desktops. But what will that forms-enhanced file look like on the CURRENT (and, ah, only) PPC version?

Dunno.

Now, I have owned HanDBase Plus less than a week having purchased it within three days of downloading the demo. (And I uploaded an applet to the Gallery that very day [Happy Camper for campground afficiandos].)

I am recommending HanDBase all over the place. And really appreciate its great performance and inexpensive purchase price. A superb value.

But I'm afraid enthusiasm over the hot-looking new product got the better of these fine folks at DDH. Outcome: Premature promotion (inadvertently?) masquerading as an offer to sell that which does not yet exist.

I would have thought that these smart data base programmers would have been more disciplined and careful.

Perhaps someone can write a helpful little applet with fields such as:

Field 1--Checkbox: Graphics reflect actual product features
Field 2--Checkbox: Web site describes current state of actual products being sold
Field 3--Promotional Language
Popup (appends):
Clearly delineates which products can create forms
Indicates upgrade path for desktop forms creation
Describes what happens to new Forms enhanced files on old versions
Etc.

Aside: I see that my eagerness to purchase this past weekend will cost me $5 extra dollars to get the Pro version today rather than waiting less than a week for the Version 3 Pro upgrade (I paid $29 this past Saturday; the Pro version upgrade will now cost me $15 but a new bundle is $40 total. (Yeah, I can call, waste my time and a rep's to get the $5 credit or return the original blah blah blah, but that seems goofy.)

End of rant.

[Ed Hansberry]

BUT look at the site! There are PPC graphics all over the place showing version 3 with Forms on a Pocket PC!

And there is NOTHING to indicate that this is, from a purchaser's standpoint, still vaporware.

It seems a little hard to believe that this was an "oversight." More likely, it was a business decision. "Heck, the Palm and desktop versions are done, let's launch!"

In fairness, Pocket PCs can use forms, just not create or edit them yet. They did launch knowing PPC wasn't done - Palm and desktop were and there was no reason to hold up those markets for Pocket PC, which is still a small segment of their business. HDB3 was over 2 years in the making for Palm. Very difficult to do on that platform. They built HDB 2.x for PPC in their spare time :wink: last year while working on forms for Palm and will have forms for the PPC ready in 4-8 weeks.

I agree their should be a big yellow star somehwere saying "PPC Form Creation coming soon!" but if you build forms on the desktop, they work on your device, hence the screenshots.

[GadgetGuy]

In fairness, Pocket PCs can use forms, just not create or edit them yet.

Thanks, Ed, for the clarification. This does make a difference. A bit of explanation and clarification would go a long way toward DDH making its offer clear.

Marketing 101: Customers buy more when they understand the value they're receiving for their money.

To reiterate: the HanDBase product is a superb product and tremendous value. And I'll bet Version 3 with Forms is awesome.

Looking forward to more information about it so that we can all make intelligent choices about using the product.

[Marcel_Proust]

Ed,

I downloaded HanDBase 3.0 Professional this morning. The Desktop version came with Forms Designer module. However, the Pocket PC version came without it.

Now, when you look at DDH Software's web site there is no word that Forms Designer module for Pocket PC would be "coming later". On the contrary, they trumpet it all over the place that HanDBase 3.0 Professional INCLUDES Forms Designer.

They actually display a large button on the right side of the screen saying that you can upgade to Pro version, which INCLUDES Forms Designer (with words "Desktop Palm Pocket PC" displayed on top). Based on that ad I purchased the upgrade only to find out that the most important compoment (the main reason I decided to upgrade) is missing.

Also, down towards the bottom of the page they describe what components come with what version. Both Professional and Enterprise editions are shown as contaning HanDBase Forms, without indicating that the handheld versions are really not included.

All they had to say that Forms Designer would ship later and it would be free to all who purchase or upgrade to Professional version. They chose not to do so. Now, if this is not false advertising, then I do not know what is...

On top of that the manual which came with the software is incomplete (missing images) and I already found a major bug that prevents me from using an important database I imported from version 2.77. I already spoke to their Tech Support about that and they are to forward this problem - which they were able to replicate but not solve - to the developer.

George


gadgetman - could you tell us what the bug is?

[Marcel_Proust]

Well I went ahead and converted the my databases to the new format. Luckily I made a backup. Many of my databases were corrupted by the conversion process. Fields were shifted and lost. I assume it's the same bug as the one mentioned above.
I don't mind the form designer not being included in an early release, but I hate buggy and damaging releases.
I am still excited about this product and await the fixes eagerly. But beware - do NOT use it until they have ironed these problems out.

[GadgetMan]

Marcel,

Actually, all my databases (17 of them, some with links to other databases) converted OK, except for one which got one formula in calculated value field changed due to a bug.

So, here are the two bugs (identified in both desktop and PPC modules) I found so far:

- Unable to select "Previous" checkbox in Calculated Field configuration window, so that value from a field in the previous record could be used.

- Field defined as Integer limited to three digit entry (e.g. if you have field called YEAR with its type defined as Integer you could not enter the full year, e.g. 2002, in that field).

DDH Software are aware of these bugs. They are currently fixing them in both desktop and PPC modules and should have the revised versions of the software packages available for download by Monday.

Cheers,

[ddhsoftware]

GadgetGuy,

I apologize that I wasn't clear enough in my previous posting. HanDBase Forms are supported on the handheld, but you need to design them on the desktop (for now!). So the screenshots of a form running on the Pocket PC are indeed doable and possible with the current version, though you would have to create it using the desktop app.

Another area that may cause confusion is that you don't need HanDBase Pro to use a form that was created. So if someone creates a fancy looking applet complete with forms, then all HanDBase 3.0 users, regardless of which version they have can run those forms. We did it this way, because we didn't think people should have to pay for this feature unless they are using it to design forms. In a corporation, generally the IT people would be the only ones designing forms, so why make every user pay for that feature?!

Hope this clarifies things. I imagine we'll have to further tweak the text on the web site to explain this better!

[ddhsoftware]

BwanaJim,

Sorry for the confusion- the HanDBase Pro is a new package that we just released, so it's pretty safe to say that most people don't already have it!

It contains several new products/technologies over the normal and Plus versions of HanDBase, including a conduit to sync to Access, an enhanced conduit that can sync multiple users to the same PDB file (or Access file for that matter), and the forms designer which runs on the desktop only right now, but forms can be run on the Pocket PC.

We are offering every registered user of HanDBase or HanDBase Plus the upgrade to Professional for 14.99. Hope this helps!

[Marcel_Proust]

Marcel,

Actually, all my databases (17 of them, some with links to other databases) converted OK, except for one which got one formula in calculated value field changed due to a bug.

So, here are the two bugs (identified in both desktop and PPC modules) I found so far:

- Unable to select "Previous" checkbox in Calculated Field configuration window, so that value from a field in the previous record could be used.

- Field defined as Integer limited to three digit entry (e.g. if you have field called YEAR with its type defined as Integer you could not enter the full year, e.g. 2002, in that field).

DDH Software are aware of these bugs. They are currently fixing them in both desktop and PPC modules and should have the revised versions of the software packages available for download by Monday.

Cheers,

I am still trying to uncover what bugs corrupted my databases. I am running a complicated medical record tracking system, with patient records, visits, medical information, and billings all linked. They do use 4 digit years, and do use calculations from previous fields, but I don't know if that's what ruined the database. The conversion process on the pocketpc hung up. The desktop version corrupted the databases. I hope these bugs will be fixed soon and the new version is reliable. They have a great program but some of their work on reliability in the past has not been quite up to par with the best. I made backups thanks to your notification of a bug - and a little miffed I can't use the upgrades sooner as forms would be nice.

[Ed Hansberry]

I am still trying to uncover what bugs corrupted my databases. I am running a complicated medical record tracking system, with patient records, visits, medical information, and billings all linked. They do use 4 digit years, and do use calculations from previous fields, but I don't know if that's what ruined the database. The conversion process on the pocketpc hung up. The desktop version corrupted the databases. I hope these bugs will be fixed soon and the new version is reliable. They have a great program but some of their work on reliability in the past has not been quite up to par with the best. I made backups thanks to your notification of a bug - and a little miffed I can't use the upgrades sooner as forms would be nice.
Contact their support team directly. It is possible your 2.x database has some corruption in it that the 2.x app doesn't care about and the conversion is getting confused, or they could have a bug in their conversion app. Either way, I'd send them everything you could and let them take a look at it. If it is a bug, chances are, you are not the only one bitten by it and they'd appreciate the info.