Site evolution & a true mobile version

[Jason Dunn]

This could be potentially the most controversial post I've ever written, but here goes. I'm planning on introducing a significant change to this site quite soon, and I wanted to start some discussion on it. Last year I had a "subscriber" option, but I didn't offer the subscribers any added value for their money. Needless to say, I've re-thought that concept and came up with something better.<br /><br />Since moving to real forum software, I feel this site has taken great strides in becoming more useful...to everyone except those on a Pocket PC. The forum templates are certainly not Pocket PC friendly, and for those of you who want to read and respond to comments both offilne and online, it's not ideal.<br /><br />I love spending my days working on this site, but I have to find a way to keep up the level and quality of content, but also pay my bills doing so. The various affiliate programs we've tried have thus far have been a little underwhealming (though I dearly appreciate your patronage). All the content on this site has always been free, and once you're used to having something for free, you won't want to pay for it. I'm also reluctant to turn the entire site into a "subscribers only" offering becuase I'd really like to keep evangelising the Pocket PC and "hiding" information from people isn't a good way to do that. Guess where I'm going with this yet? I thought you would.<br /><br />We've been working on a mobile version of this site, and it's coming along really nicely. The plan is to charge for access to this mobile version of the site. You can visit the desktop version of the site with Pocket Internet Explorer, or sync the site with AvantGo or Mazingo, but to get the optimised version with full mobile forum access, you'll need to subscribe. Access to the mobile version will be tied to your profile, not some strange URL or a username/password.<br /><br />So there you have it. Is that something you'd be willing to shell out a couple of bucks for a month? Is the mobile version of the site in an optimised fashion enough, or would you also need to see exclusive content that the desktop browser visitors wouldn't see? I'm somewhat reluctant to create an "us and them" site, but I'm open to feedback. I'm including a poll on the page to see what price points you'd be comfortable with.

[pt]

i'll be the first to step up and support the site, this great news. it's really important that we -all- support community sites we love.

i pay for infosync right now, so this is more than acceptable and welcomed. it's worth it. why? because i read this site everyday, i use it for my job, i quote it all the time, i use the stats, i keep up to date, i use the high-res pictures from the site in my presentations. when i'm held hostage waiting in line, waiting in meetings, waiting for anything i read the site. i have a cable bill and i pay for a wired, nytimes, and other print subscriptions and i sure don't seem to have a problem with paying for those, so why the hell should i not pay to support something i really enjoy. even if i didn't use it, it's worth it.

can't wait jason! looking forward to it.

[Sslixtis]

Well Jason, I have no need for a mobile version of the site just yet, so it really doesn't matter to me. However I would hate to see a us/them site as well. ALOT.
Anyway, how about putting a PayPal button on the site so that people could toss you a couple of bucks a month to show their support? I would be willing to donate a couple of bucks a month to help keep this site open to everyone and delivering excellent content to all comers.
This is one of the sites I use at work to convert the Heathen Palm loyalists and would hate to lose any of the advantages I have :wink: I have almost converted em all from Palm but now I need to get them up to PPC 2002 :lol:
Hey it all self-interest, the more people with the same gear as me the more stuff OEMs will make for me!

[jdhill]

I need to clarify my vote. I voted that it is worth $2 a month for me. However I have no current need for a mobile edition of the site. I do most of my web surfing at the moment using my wirelessly (802.11b) connected laptop while sitting in my 'easy chair'. And while I could do the same with my WLAN connected Pocket PC, when given the choice of viewing the site at 240 x 320 versus 1024 x 768 I will always go for the higher resolution.

Yes, Jason, I will pay for your content (perhaps we'd still have Wes at PDA Buzz if we had been given a chance to pay for that content). However, I'd like the option to pay for that content in a format that I find most useful. So I guess, I'd like to see an option for a premium version of the "desktop" version of the site.

Give it some thought.

[Birdman]

I too do not have any need just now for a mobile version as I access the site many times (way too many times) from my work computer, in the evenings from my home computer and when I sync with Avantgo.

Having said all that, I would be happy to contribute some monetary amount, either on a regular basis and be entitled to "additional content" (which practically does not seem to work well) or, and perhaps, preferably, a periodic contribution to keep the site going.

[Jonathan1]

I can't say. I would need more specifics on just what is included in that $1-$5. As long as there's a "you get what you pay for mentality" I personally wouldn't mind spending a few buck.

Can we get some specifics on what is planned? Is it purely just optimized for mobile user?

[schwuk]

I've voted that I would pay, but I would rather pay for early/exclusive content rather than mobile forums. After all, this is a Pocket PC centric site, surely it should natively support Pocket PCs rather than as a 'extra'.

Keep the news, thoughts and forums free and PPC-friendly, and produce some subscription content - maybe those articles (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1969) you mentioned, reviews or the guest columnists.
--
Schwuk

[Dave Beauvais]

I voted for $5/month. Why? Because I spend almost that much on a freakin' combo meal at Wendy's more than once a month. :D Thoughts is certainly more useful to me than an artery-clogging cheeseburger and a Dr. Pepper! Besides, as often as I visit the site, and as many times as I read the forums, $60 a year seems perfectly reasonable to me to keep a site I love alive and well.

I can't count the number of times that I've been laying in bed or sitting on the patio reading the site on my E-200 (wireless LANs rock! 8) ); I'll come across a "[More]" link on the main page and don't even bother tapping it since the forum is so hard to read right now. If I had access to a Pocket PC-optimized version of the Forums, that would be awesome!

I do want to strongly vote for not having different "news" or "thought" items for the desktop and PPC versions of the site. Additional content such as guest columnists, in-depth articles, etc. could be reserved for subscribers, but I don't think you'd be serving the general public by showing non-subscribers only a subset of the news that subscribers get.

I do have three questions, though:

When I go to the Thoughts site, will it automatically load the version of the site that's appropriate for the device I'm using?

Login info is stored in a cookie. How are read messages tracked? Is that also with a cookie or are read message counts stored as part of my profile on the Thoughts server? I ask because it would be nice to not have to think about what topics I've read and which I haven't when switching from Pocket PC to PC. Will subscribed topics be available on both versions of the site?

Do you have any idea how payment will be handled? Can I prepay for a year or will I have to renew each month? Would I be notified a few days before my subscription is set to expire?

I know some of that will get worked out as you develop your idea, but if you have any info now, that would be great. Keep up the great work!

Dave

[jgahr]

I really don't have a need for the mobile version, always get on a million times a day via desktop or laptop. I have learned an extreme amount of information here, and don't want to lose the edge it gives me. I subscribe to much less important (to me) things pertaining to my job, when I learn more here, so I have no issue with supporting it. :mrgreen:

[topps]

I've voted that I would pay, but I would rather pay for early/exclusive content rather than mobile forums.

I would agree with this. While a mobile friendly edition would be nice, I doubt that you will have enough people who will pay for this to make it worthwhile on its own.

How about extra value stuff for subscribers? Many journals that I access (medical) are using this model - you can get the old stuff for free or abstracts of articles...but if you want the full article with all the graphics, tables, full detail or if you want stuff from the latest issue then you have to pay (I'm not however happy with what they think that immediate access is worth - a bit too pricy in most cases - but I digress)

Suggest that you keep news free but when you have extra content, commentary, details on fix-its etc, put them on the subscriber site at first and then on the general site a week to a month later, depending on the timeliness and intrinsic value of the information. (Have to be careful not to be scooped by other sites, which may limit the amount of stuff that you can do this with.)

I agree with the comments of another poster (sorry, on a previous screen so can't properly attribute who wrote it!) that $5 per month is less than we spend at Starbucks in a week...but that's the problem with the information age - we still are not very good at paying for information and tend to treat it as if it should be free to everybody. Sorta like the Netscape phenomenon - users are happy to use Netscape while it is free but baulk when asked to pay for it .

BTW, between us Canucks, was that $1-5 US or Can? Not that it makes much difference &lt;groan>

Hope you can work something out but I doubt if you're gonna get rich with this.

David Topps
www.pocketprof.org

[danmanmayer]

Hey I love thougths and i recently started posting here (I have been reading for well over a year) but i am a student with a broken pocket pc (I can't afford to fix it, so i am waiting for a really nice pocketpc/phone and then i will save up and buy another) But i just never even used the mobile version of the site. So even with a new pocket pc i don't think i would use that. I do wish however to support the site. So i was thinking if you could just e-mail me privately i would be willing to make a small yearly donation to help out. I agree with others that if you make seperate content for the subcribers and non subscribers it would truely ruin the site. I would then have to jsut find somewhere else to get my news. I wouldn't enjoy doing that i have come to really enjoy the community here. I started with pocketpcpassion which i still visit but it just isn't updated enough and doesn't give me all the news i like. So i hope there are some out there that will subscribe and i say you go for the service but i hope you keep the desktop version free and seperate.

[TypeMRT]

I'm willing to pay up to $5 a month to keep this site going! What happened to Wes and PDABuzz is an unfortunate sign of what happens when your hobby becomes bigger than you expected but still too small to make a living off of.

[disconnected]

I also don't have too much need for the mobile version, although I would probably use it occasionally.

I'd definitely be willing to pay 5.00 a month to support the site (I check in at least once a day).

[Chris Edwards]

When I go to the &lt;i>Thoughts&lt;/i> site, will it automatically load the version of the site that's appropriate for the device I'm using?

Yes. It will detect what device you are using (Mazingo/Avantgo/PIE will all display mobile versions of the site).

Login info is stored in a cookie. How are read messages tracked? Is that also with a cookie or are read message counts stored as part of my profile on the &lt;i>Thoughts&lt;/i> server? I ask because it would be nice to not have to think about what topics I've read and which I haven't when switching from Pocket PC to PC. Will subscribed topics be available on both versions of the site?

At current that info is stored in a mixture of cookies/server side. We'll probably convert this over to completely server side to improve upon the accuracy of the message tracking system.

Do you have any idea how payment will be handled? Can I prepay for a year or will I have to renew each month? Would I be notified a few days before my subscription is set to expire?

Jason knows more about this than I do, so I'll let him answer this.

[heyday]

I find myself checking this site multiple times a day. I would pay to access it on a moblie device as well as the regular website. Maybe make the free site just quick blurbs of the news and make people pay to read the whole story and participate in the forms.

You could setup PayPal Donate buttons....

I'm just brainstorming here.

If you want to e-mail me at [email protected] I also have another idea that I have seen other sites do that is really a win win way to get payments and not change anyonese budget.

heyday

[Hugh Nano]

Much as I love Pocket PC Thoughts (I visit at least twice a day, if not more, whenever I am able to), as a poor student struggling to support a family and to pay off ever-mounting student loans, there is no way I can possibly justify the extra expenditure of even $1 a month on something as non-essential as a subscription to a web-site. :(

[Hugh Nano]

By the way, I guess that would mean my vote would have to be $0, but there's no button for it on the poll. Don't get me wrong... I think the content on this site is worth a great deal. I just don't have the money to pay for it (or for any other internet site, for that matter). :(

[Jeff Kirvin]

Before I vote I'd have to know a few things. I don't have a wireless LAN, and probably won't for some time. I read PPCT online with my aging 800x600 laptop (which for some reason can't display the current forums without scrolling sideways no matter what font size I set IE to), the front page in AvantGo, or the printable versions of threads saved offline as HTML and read in PIE.

A mobile site might be worth it to me to get a cleaner layout that more friendly with my tiny-by-modern-standards laptop screen, but most of my usage of such a site would be offline with AvantGo. Do you plan on making the mobile site AvantGo friendly? How much space will threads take? Can I choose which threads to sync? How will replies work? Can I start new threads from AvantGo?

I'm all for paying to help support a site that informs/entertains me on a regular basis, and PPCT fits that bill. I think a PayPal Donate button is a great idea regardless (I have one on my own site now). But a regular subscription would have to add value I can use, and not everyone has a live network connection from their mobile device.

[Skitals]

This may sound like a dumb idea, but maybe give the paying visitors the 0-sec news... and everyone else gets the news one day (or something) behind. The way I figure it, the people who are hardcore are willing to pay, and those who are not wouldnt care if they didnt catch a hot new app the HOUR it was released :)

See, it's because I think like this that my site gets such little traffic. You make me jealous ;)

Congrats on the site man. You've more then made it.

[gracar]

I would adopt a slightly different approach to the one you suggested. I can access the site on my desktop pretty much when I need to so I'm not persuaded that mobile access is worth a premium. However when I was setting up my mobile phone/PPC Bluetooth connection I found the forum posts invaluable. Why not make the forums the premium content and use the front page as the lead in to sell.

[bbarker]

I can't count the number of times that I've been laying in bed or sitting on the patio reading the site on my E-200 (wireless LANs rock! 8) ); I'll come across a "[More]" link on the main page and don't even bother tapping it since the forum is so hard to read right now. If I had access to a Pocket PC-optimized version of the Forums, that would be awesome!

I do want to strongly vote for not having different "news" or "thought" items for the desktop and PPC versions of the site. Additional content such as guest columnists, in-depth articles, etc. could be reserved for subscribers, but I don't think you'd be serving the general public by showing non-subscribers only a subset of the news that subscribers get.
I agree with both of those points.

I don't often take the time when I'm at my desk to read sites I enjoy. I do that when I'm sitting at leisure -- out on the patio, riding in a car or on a train, standing in line, or sitting in a fast-food restaurant relaxing alone after lunch over a refill of Diet Coke. But I don't often read beyond the front page of Thoughts because the forums are so hard to read on a Pocket PC.

I access Thoughts on my PPC through AvantGo or Mazingo. Now, though, with a fast wireless connection through my cell phone, I do a quick AvantGo update first and then read the latest and greatest Thoughts. I would prefer to access the site directly through the wireless connection and be able to jump down to the forums when I choose. I would gladly subscribe for this privilege.

Here is my proposal: Developing special content for subscribers or holding back content artificially so subscribers get an early look would be a lot of extra ongoing work for you. It might even exceed the income from subscriptions. And it would be of dubious value to subscribers.

Offering subscribers extra content or early information may seem to be a good idea, but it didn't work over on Brighthand. I paid for a membership in Steve Bush's insider program. There wasn't a lot of extra value in the program, but I did it just to support the site. Eventually he discontinued it. You'll have to ask him why, but my guess is that it was too much work to think up ways to make members feel they were getting their money's worth.

I suggest you make Thoughts Lite on a PPC (the front page of the mobile version) free, as it is now, when it's synchronized through AvantGo or Mazingo.

Thoughts Full on a PPC would require a subscription to the premium mobile version. It would include the forums, reviews, archives and the rest of the site. Access could be through AvantGo, through Mazingo or directly through a wireless connection. (The premium subscription also may include accessing just the front page through a wireless connection because the information is real-time, rather than whatever was sync'd before leaving home or the office. Would this makes sense?)

Programmed this way the site would automatically provide real value to mobile users, whether wireless (an increasing population) or those who sync through AvantGo or Mazingo. Once this is set up the cost to the site would be almost nothing. But the value to mobile subscribers would be ongoing. I definitely would pay for it. So would others who appreciate full mobile access.

Those who are saying they don't need mobile access also don't need to pay for content that's now free, or for an early look at some of that content. If they're willing to do that just to support the site, they're probably willing to donate to the site anyway.

There should be enough premium mobile subscribers to make a difference and they'll feel good about what they're getting. The number will grow as wireless access grows with devices such as the new Toshiba and PPC/phone combo units grow the market. A year from now those numbers could be large.

A normal subscription might be for three months. A discount could be available for those who prepay for a full year. A short (one month?) trial subscription might be available at a slightly higher cost. Of course, somebody could do trial subscriptions over and over again, but it would be costly to them. The reason for the extra cost is to relieve the site of having to process many small payments and to encourage ongoing subscriptions.

One issue is renewals. Automatic renewal would be a convenience to subscribers who want to keep subscribing but don't want to pay a year in advance. But it would be an irritation to people who don't want to be "hooked into" something they "don't know about" (even if they do know but forget). It should be an option on the three-month subscriptions only.I hope some of this helps.

[kgbester]

I posted a question on your forum the other day about the graphics in Internet Explorer. Your fast response (embarrassing as it was) saved me time and money. This has value to me. I also find the content you post to be relevant, current and frequent. I also enjoy the fact that you have no problem displaying a link from other sites where they have a news item or review. I can only afford the $2 amount as the conversion to our currency (Rand) is quite bad 10:1. Keep up the good work and let me know when I can pay the subscription fee.

[Foo Fighter]

Just to toss in my two cents -

The idea of paying a monthly fee isn't going to fly. I have enough monthly bills to pay already as it is; utilities, DirectTV bill, cell phone bill, car insurance, gas, food, lodgings, ISP bill, health insurance...blah blah blah.

However, I WOULD pay an annual subscription fee. Gamespot offers a yearly subscription service for complete coverage (which I subscribe to) and that business model works quite well. Give that a shot, or at least make it an option for those of us who don't want to stick $5 in the kitty every month. Maybe offer a discount for annual subscribers. You will make more money up front.

[BillG]

I wouldn't pay a dime. Most of the content of this and other PPC sites is public discussions of commercial products. It would be like paying to hang around the water cooler.

[Xenosaiyan]

For mobile forums, assuming one would have the ability to post and browse just as if you were on a computer, I'd pay $5 a month easy. I have a wireless LAN set up now, and I've payed more than $5 for online games. I check this site now more than I've played any online game, so it'd be worth it to me.

What shouldn't be done is having exclusive news/reviews/thoughts etc. There's really nothing that could be done to make it worthwhile to pay for "exclusive" content when the next site could have the same news for free, or have reviews of their own, etc.

[Ed Hansberry]

However, I WOULD pay an annual subscription fee.
That is definitely part of the deal. Jason is just trying to get an idea of what a monthly fee might be. Of course, quarterly, semi-annual and annual pricing would be done, possibly with discounts the farther out you subscribe.

He hasn't mentioned this, but I'll jump in with it anyway. For the low low price of $100,000, you get a lifetime membership. :wink: :lol: :lol:

[Steven Cedrone]

I also don't have too much need for the mobile version, although I would probably use it occasionally.

I'd definitely be willing to pay 5.00 a month to support the site (I check in at least once a day).

I agree.......

You have my support!!!

Steve

[Steven Cedrone]

Deleted.....Double post......

Not quite sure how that happened :o

Steve

[Gator5000e]

I actually avoid looking at the site during the work day so I can see what's hapened in the world of Pocket PCs when I get home. I generally use my iPaq for viewing the site via my wireless LAN so I would LOVE a moblie site for PPCs and would pay $5 a month for it. I realize I am in the minority for wanting a mobile site, but I think it is important as more and more wireless options become availalbe to be able to view the site in mobile mode. Thanks.

[ThomasC22]

Well, obviously many, many people have already stated the identical opinion that I'm about to give but I felt I should give it to you just the same so you see the magnitude.

I voted for $3 because that is what I believe the service (in my head) is worth but I have to tell you I would have no earthly use for the mobile version you have proposed.

I mean, wireless time is still expensive and I'm willing to take that hit for important information I need but this forum (sorry guys :) ) just does not qualify as worth it.

Even the information I could get from this forum (e.g. asking a question and getting an answer from someone more knowledgable than myself) would not be instantaneous so there is just no reason for me to pay for a mobile version.

Sorry :(

[bbarker]

I mean, wireless time is still expensive and I'm willing to take that hit for important information I need but this forum (sorry guys :) ) just does not qualify as worth it.
I don't actually need the information, but as an enthusiast I enjoy it. I also pay for movies and magazines I enjoy. And my wireless time through Verizon is free nights and weekends. Even during the day I'm charged only for the time data is actually transmitting, not while I'm sitting there reading. So the cost for me is not high.

Even the information I could get from this forum (e.g. asking a question and getting an answer from someone more knowledgable than myself) would not be instantaneous so there is just no reason for me to pay for a mobile version.
For me the value of a mobile version is having more than just the front page formatted for easy reading. I seldom ask a question for which I need a quick response. But I do like reading what others have to say about a topic and sometimes want to add a comment. Currently I'm not in a position to do either because I'm normally reading Thoughts on my Pocket PC.

As I've said, those who don't need this won't likely subscribe to a premium mobile version. But most of them probably wouldn't subscribe to "premium" content either.

[Jason Dunn]

I mean, wireless time is still expensive and I'm willing to take that hit for important information I need but this forum (sorry guys :) ) just does not qualify as worth it.

Keep in mind that "MOBILE" also includes offline browsing tools like AvantGo and Mazingo. We currently have 3874 people subscribed to this site via Mazingo, and AvantGo hit our servers for 15.6 gigs of data transfer in the month of June. That tells me that more than a couple of people want this information on their Pocket PC in a nicely formatted manner. :lol:

[ThomasC22]

Keep in mind that "MOBILE" also includes offline browsing tools like AvantGo and Mazingo. We currently have 3874 people subscribed to this site via Mazingo, and AvantGo hit our servers for 15.6 gigs of data transfer in the month of June. That tells me that more than a couple of people want this information on their Pocket PC in a nicely formatted manner. :lol:

OK, well, why don't you try this than (to save you both time and money in case it doesn't work out). There are obviously some people who are interested in this (like bbarker above), and others (myself included) who might be interested in this service if they completely knew what it would be. So, rather than make the question "what would you pay" simply ask "would you be interested?"

I just don't want to see you put a lot of effort into something that will have very little reward...

[Gordo]

I have no burning desire for a mobile version of the site, however as I mentioned a while back I would be willing to pay to have the front page delivered daily to my email address.

[dstrauss]

I think $3-5, depending upon content, what be appropriate. In fact, $3 for mobile format, and $5 for that plus additional content, would be a great set of choices. As many other have noted, we don't need another PDABuzz debacle.

[Carlos]

I only use the mobile version, and I would be happy to help sustain it. The only time I access it on my desktop is to post replies (sometimes). Since I read it almost every day, a couple bucks is nothing relative to the return. And there simply is no other source of concise, quick snips of PPC news like this one.

I'm dying to have a version of the forums that I can view more easily on the PPC. Srolling sideways to read lengthy posts really sucks.

[bbarker]

Keep in mind that "MOBILE" also includes offline browsing tools like AvantGo and Mazingo. We currently have 3874 people subscribed to this site via Mazingo, and AvantGo hit our servers for 15.6 gigs of data transfer in the month of June. That tells me that more than a couple of people want this information on their Pocket PC in a nicely formatted manner. :lol:
Jason,

What do you think of my ideas from earlier in this discussion? Forget premium content or an early look at content.

Keep the "lite" mobile version free.

Offer a premium mobile version that would include the lite version (front page) plus the forums, reviews, archives and the rest of the site. This would be available through AvantGo, Mazingo and directly (via a wireless PPC connection).Based on the poll it sounds like $2 to $3 is the growing sweet spot. I voted $2 but I'd go for $4 if that were the consensus.

Bart

[Carlos]

I like Bart's idea a lot. I would not be here at all if there had not been a free mobile version for me to get started with.

[mashtim]

Although I am an old dog, I am willing to try and learn some new tricks (mainly, paying for content). I check this site multiple times a day and if it takes money to keep it going, so be it. It'd be a bonus if that enabled my access to some additional content or something like that, but my "subscription" would not be dependent on such a thing.
However, I DO think that the site should be entirely PPC-enabled, regardless. A PocetPC-centric site that is not entirely optimized for PPC viewing is an anachronism. Believe me, I understand the limitations of time and resources, but it just seems.... wrong. This is in no way a dig or a slam at you folks. Simply my sense of synchronicity, I reckon; the way things should be.
Let me finish this rant worth about 1-1/2 centavos by saying that I love this site and that you fine folks are doing a bang up job. Whatever it is that I can do to help you continue doing so, just let me know.

[Carlos]

Agreed, it is like the PPC Mag electronic version--which doesn't work on PPC's. That was a stupid move on their part. Likewise, I think it's important that this site become more readable on the PPC. At least it CAN be read on the PPC now, but it needs to be easier and the ability to post needs to be included also.

I do all of my reading away from the notebook computer, whether it's on the plane while traveling or in bed before going to sleep. The last thing I want to do is spend some more time tied to my computer, which I stare at for 12 hours a day.

[cptnshred]

This is a truly great site that I value, but it's one of several from which I keep up. Generally, I read the front page and move on. I wouldn't use the features you might charge for, and so I wouldn't be any help to you, because I wouldn't pay for something I wouldn't use. Give me an easy place to contribute (with a credit card) on the front page of the site. I will use that. My quick thought is that you'd issue a "contribution subscription" that might get me a little extra every now and then, or an advertising free experience, or something like that. Do what you're talking about, because I think it might be another source of revenue, and I realize most people don't understand that if they want something good, the only way to get it/keep it is to pay for it.

For what it's worth, thanks for the site. I do mobile stuff for a large organization, and wouldn't be where I am without you.

[cptnshred]

OOps, forgot one very important point. Monthly stinks. Whatever you do, please make it yearly.

[Carlos]

Hmm, well, I think automatic monthly billing is an easier sell for many people. Having to act upon it monthly would be a pain, but monthly auto-bill for a few bucks is probably a good option.

[bbarker]

Hmm, well, I think automatic monthly billing is an easier sell for many people. Having to act upon it monthly would be a pain, but monthly auto-bill for a few bucks is probably a good option.
Maybe automatic monthly billing, with a discount for a year paid in advance.

[pradike]

:cry: This is a great site - charging is a bad idea...I am already planning to keep on the lookout for having to delete it if it goes $$$$. Its a shame...everytime someone seems to do well with a site, the next thing you know, it for $$$$. Hope it doesn't happen here.

[Carlos]

Pradike, watch out for that door about to hit you on the ass... Sorry, but quality services require money. You can get it cheaper and free elsewhere, but not with the quality found here. What you get at PPC Thoughts is a guy who really cares about what he is doing and clearly puts a lot of thought into what he says about products. I may not always agree, but I always know that I'm getting an informed and well-reasoned opinion.

He can't afford to put that much time and effort into it free. In fact, I expect the quality and effort to rise when he's making some money from it. Not that it will be a conscious decision, but more money equals more time available and less worry about making financial ends meet.


If we lose 20% of the readership, then we're just weeding out the people who don't really understand the value proposition. They're not good for the industry or the economy in general, so let them go. Things are usually worth what you pay for them. PPC Thoughts is worth far more than I've paid so far (nothing), which means it is not a sustainable business model.

[bbarker]

:cry: This is a great site - charging is a bad idea...I am already planning to keep on the lookout for having to delete it if it goes $$$$. Its a shame...everytime someone seems to do well with a site, the next thing you know, it for $$$$. Hope it doesn't happen here.
Charging only for a premium mobile version and keeping the desktop version free would address your concern.

[Hugh Nano]

Pradike, watch out for that door about to hit you on the ass... If we lose 20% of the readership, then we're just weeding out the people who don't really understand the value proposition. They're not good for the industry or the economy in general, so let them go. Things are usually worth what you pay for them.

This is a poor attitude. I know that subscriber-based web-services are the so-called "wave of the future", and that the internet costs $$, but a great many valuable, well-educated readers and contributors to the internet community are not rich enough to keep up with all the nickle-and-dime-you-to-death services that are poised to flood the free-exchange-of-information that used to be the internet. $50/mo for DSL, $50/mo for cell-phone service (more if you want data services), $25/mo for telephone, not to mention the continual cost of upgrading computer software and hardware that is necessary--it all adds up. There are many for whom even the sum total of all these charges are just a drop in the bucket, but there are just as many, if not more, for whom this gradually-mounting accumulation of service charges is swiftly becoming prohibitive. Many of this hypothetical 20% you would be happy to lose are in fact some of the most valuable contributors to the collective growth of knowledge, ideas, and information that is the internet: students who are struggling to pay tuition fees and basic dialup charges, perhaps even (like me) purchasing Pocket PCs because they are relatively inexpensive alternatives to the laptop.

Fortunately, the scenario we are faced with here at Pocket PC Thoughts is not a straight no-pay, no-access dilemna, and for that I am truly thankful. I would prefer to see a text-advertising-supported mobile version of this, my favorite Pocket PC web-site (text-advertising also tends to force advertisers to win people over with information rather than just slick graphics--another plus, in my opinion), but so long as the desktop-based page is freely available, I will be happy.

Another point that has been made previously is worth mentioning again: much of the information that is available here is also available elsewhere on the net. Requires a bit more hunting, but it's there. This, to me, is the essence of the internet: the free exchange of information. Freely you have received; freely give.

[Carlos]

If you have more time than money, then go gather the free information on your own. I would prefer to pay someone who does a great job of not just gathering information, but adding value in the form of well-reasoned opinion and commentary.

Would I *like* to lose readers? No. Would I rather lose readers who can't afford to pay, instead of losing quality of content? Absolutely.

Advertising simply doesn't pay the bills. I've always said the "internet economy" was unsustainable, and all the net-deaths and conversions to pay systems have proven this.

The ONLY reason I see to keep any free services at all is to attract those people who wouldn't pay up front until they see the value provided. To that end, maybe a one-month trial is another option.

[l0o5er]

I've been reading PPCT for about 18 months now & wanted to thank you Jason for the great job that you & your merry team of contributors have done. Since I got my first Ipaq I have checked in, via Web, Avantgo & more recently Mazingo, to all the pda-based weblogs & websites that I could find. Inevitably I'd drop them after a week or 2 but PPCT has been my mainstay connection to the world of Pocket PC's. I would be happy to support this website in continuing to deliver the great value it does. I can't see myself using the mobile edition as I mostly read this site from my desktop, but I would be happy to support PPCT if it moved to a subscriber-only model.

many thanks

Mitch Olson

[dstrauss]

If you have more time than money, then go gather the free information on your own. I would prefer to pay someone who does a great job of not just gathering information, but adding value in the form of well-reasoned opinion and commentary.

Would I *like* to lose readers? No. Would I rather lose readers who can't afford to pay, instead of losing quality of content? Absolutely.

Advertising simply doesn't pay the bills. I've always said the "internet economy" was unsustainable, and all the net-deaths and conversions to pay systems have proven this.

The ONLY reason I see to keep any free services at all is to attract those people who wouldn't pay up front until they see the value provided. To that end, maybe a one-month trial is another option.

I agree with Carlos. If you want to do all the searching, more power to you. But if you enjoy the value added use of a site to accumulate everything for you, then be willing to support it.

That said, please consider an annual subscription option, for convenience cake. :lol:

[Ed Hansberry]

:cry: This is a great site - charging is a bad idea...I am already planning to keep on the lookout for having to delete it if it goes $$$$. Its a shame...everytime someone seems to do well with a site, the next thing you know, it for $$$$. Hope it doesn't happen here.
It won't go to a fee site 100%. There will still be free content - like the forums and front page. I think the fees are largely based on extra content and a rich mobile experience.

[bbarker]

We've been working on a mobile version of this site, and it's coming along really nicely. The plan is to charge for access to this mobile version of the site. You can visit the desktop version of the site with Pocket Internet Explorer, or sync the site with AvantGo or Mazingo, but to get the optimised version with full mobile forum access, you'll need to subscribe. Access to the mobile version will be tied to your profile, not some strange URL or a username/password.
How is this coming Jason? What is the status of a true mobile version? You may have posted something on this recently. If so I've missed it and I can't find it by searching.

Thanks,
Bart

[Jason Dunn]

Still coming....