Log in

View Full Version : More on the X-Scale, and why you might not care so much

Ed Hansberry
06-12-2002, 06:24 PM
<a href="http://www.silicon.com/a53873">http://www.silicon.com/a53873</a><br /><br />"Anyone hoping to buy PDAs with the new generation of Intel processors is likely to be disappointed as there's no software out there capable of using their whizzy new features." The best feature of course is the battery life. The PXA250 X-Scale running at 200MHz can consume 50% of the battery power the current StrongARM chips do, and at 400MHz, it consumes roughly the same power. But to enable these battery saving goodies, the software needs to be optimized for it. Reminds me of the MMX instruction set Intel introduced in the late 90's. Didn't mean much for about 12-18 months when software was written to support it.<br /><br />"But a source at Intel suggested that the CE.net kernel, on which the next version of PocketPC will be based, wasn't optimized for Xscale either. The follow-up to CE.net, based on a kernel known only by the codename Macallan, is closer to being Xscale optimised. And even that "wasn't where we want it yet," the source said. Macallan is not due out until 2003, and a Pocket PC operating system based on Macallan, and making full use of Xscale's speed enhancements, may not be out until the year after." So, 2004 before we see a Pocket PC device capable of the advantages X-Scale offers? Ewwwww..... <br /><br />It seems Intel didn't provide the X-Scale chip available soon enough for software vendors such as Microsoft to optimize for them according to the IDC analyst quoted in the article.
entropy1980
06-12-2002, 06:39 PM
This seems to support my findings and others with the e740 thus far.I guess time will tell. I have been in contact with someone close to XScale and have been trying to get as much info as possible, I should know some more this afternoon on regards to current performance issues with the e740 and possibly more XScale devices( I say possible because I don't have any experience first hand with any other XScale devices)
Charles Pickrell
06-12-2002, 06:42 PM
It looks like Intel made a really huge mistake here. Hopefully one of the other ARM licensees will come out with a chip that doesn't require all of these optomizations to get some benefit. Then we can get some Pocket PCs that actually are faster.
Foo Fighter
06-12-2002, 06:59 PM
2004 until we see another release of PocketPC? :?

I can't help but wonder...just how committed is Microsoft to PocketPC? They don't seem to take this platform very seriously. In fact, they seem to be shifting focus to Tablet PC and Smartphone 2002.

This doesn't exactly instill confidence in me.
Paragon
06-12-2002, 07:06 PM
What surpises me most in that artical is the mention of .NET not being able to fully optimize Xscale. If so it could be 2-3 years before we see any real processor, or battery performance increases...yikes!!

Is anyone else beginning to get the feeling that Xscale may hurt PPC more than it helps at this point. I know that's maybe pushing it a bit, but you must admit it is messing things up a little at this point. Putting chips out that O/Ss can't optimize, O/Ss that aren't going to be ready for a while and developers trying to make do with what there is available at the moment, I think is a recipe for disaster.

I hope they are wrong about the .Net thing.

Dave
Ed Hansberry
06-12-2002, 07:21 PM
2004 until we see another release of PocketPC?

Quit reading the article wrong Foo.
Foo Fighter
06-12-2002, 07:28 PM
Quit reading the article wrong Foo.

So when are we going to see the next rev of PPC?
Robert Levy
06-12-2002, 07:36 PM
Putting chips out that O/Ss can't optimize, O/Ss that aren't going to be ready for a while and developers tring to make do with what there is available at the moment, I think is a recipe for disaster.


*cough* Palm OS 5 *cough*
Ed Hansberry
06-12-2002, 07:45 PM
So when are we going to see the next rev of PPC?

I dunno. According to that article, there would be another one between now and the 2004 Macallan based release.
LarDude
06-12-2002, 08:02 PM
2004 until we see another release of PocketPC? :?

I can't help but wonder...just how committed is Microsoft to PocketPC? They don't seem to take this platform very seriously. In fact, they seem to be shifting focus to Tablet PC and Smartphone 2002.

This doesn't exactly instill confidence in me.

To add another pea to the pod of "shifting focus", has anyone seen "The EightyThree" from Tiquit (http://www.tiquit.com) shown on Pocketpcpassion? :P

It's approximately 1" longer and 0.5" wider than my iPaq (with sleeve) and just as thick. However, it's a "full blown" laptop shoehorned into the PDA formfactor. (VGA touchscreen, 300MHz Geode CPU, 256MB RAM, 10GB drive, PCMCIA slot, SD slot, thumb keyboard, thumb joystick, etc etc...). And only 19oz in weight, runs XP or Linux (should be able to dual-boot)...

I am "in the market" for a Toshiba e740, but now am not so sure...(why settle for an Xscale with a non-optimized OS when I could go whole-hog and enjoy authentic blue-screens-of-death at regular intervals??) :wink:
LarDude
06-12-2002, 08:07 PM
Putting chips out that O/Ss can't optimize, O/Ss that aren't going to be ready for a while and developers tring to make do with what there is available at the moment, I think is a recipe for disaster.


*cough* Palm OS 5 *cough*

*cough* "Eunich OS" of the Palm world *cough*

But hey, it's got potential...just wait till Palm OS 6 comes out... :wink:
Brad Adrian
06-12-2002, 08:18 PM
...just how committed is Microsoft to PocketPC?

I'd say that, based upon recent realignment at Microsoft and statements from their management that mobility is one of the key areas they'll be basing their business on, they are very committed.
Robotbeat
06-12-2002, 08:25 PM
BTW, I am currently in the process of optimizing PocketQuake for XScale. It's really, really easy. I just need to get the right SDK for EVC 4.0 and add the /QRxscale flag. The hardest part is trying to find room on my hard-drive for all these SDKs that I have to wade through in order to get it to compile, but it won't be too hard. (For EVC4, I have to use the CE.NET SDK and copy over any needed include files from the older PPC2k2 SDK for EVC3. It should be pretty easy once I get the SDK installed. I am currently downloading it.)

My point is that although it sucks that you might have to recompile, you still had to recompile games and stuff for the 3800 when it came out, but recompiling for the XScale may be even easier than what you had to do for the 3800...
entropy1980
06-12-2002, 09:14 PM
Robot send it to me I am willing to test it on my e740 and post results..... :D
[email protected]
Robotbeat
06-12-2002, 10:12 PM
I plan on doing that.

First, I have to get enough space to install the SDK :x :x :x .

Then I have to find out what include files are missing and copy them from the older SDK.

Then I have to compile it for my iPAQ and see if the SDK works.

Then all I have to do is then compile it for XScale real quick and put it on my website. I might send it to you, but hotmail sucks some times... I'll talk to you at http://www.pocketmatrix.com
DJR
06-14-2002, 02:06 AM
This is a SERIOUS screw up by both Intel and Microsoft and bad news for the platform... The XScale was *supposed* to offer a big performance boost and improved battery life and now we hear "maybe next year"???

Is PPC locked into using XScale? What about other ARM-architecture chips (Motorola and TI and others)?
TechMage
06-14-2002, 08:49 AM
What a load of crap! I (and alot of other people) have been waiting for a 400MHz XScale PPC for almost a year now. I have been waiting and waiting to get my hands on one of these babies, mostly because of the multimedia possibilities. I have dreamed of emulating GameBoy Advance and Super Nintendo games at full speed, running Quake 1 at 20fps, and multitasking applications like listening to mp3s while playing a game or other CPU intensive application. Now the first XScale device is out, and it's crap. Man, I'm so pissed at Intel. Why even mention a product a year in advance and promise all these great things (like low battery power consumption and 400MHz), when their not true? Do big companies even test their products anymore? I mean come on! How hard is it to make a prototype PPC with XScale, and PPC 2002 or CE.NET, and run the dumb thing to see if it even works! Fujitsu planned on releasing the Loox a month ago, but now their finding out how ****** the XScale is. What a waste of money and time! This really blows. :evil:
canadapocketpc
07-04-2002, 11:10 PM
Original Message quote by LarDude
To add another pea to the pod of "shifting focus", has anyone seen "The EightyThree" from Tiquit (http://www.tiquit.com) shown on Pocketpcpassion? :P


Great form factor :? Almost reminds me of a RIM fused togher with a HP JORNADA.....

lol

Regards..... Peter