The ugly truth about ActiveSync and categories

[Jason Dunn]

About a month ago, I started writing one of my final PocketPC.com articles on category syncing, based on the ASSSUMPTION that it worked like I thought it would - you know, separate categories for each piece of data, only sync category "A" at work, and category "B" at home. You'd think that would allow you to keep your data isolated on each machine, right? It doesn't. <!><br /><br />There is NO ability for the Pocket PC to isolate data from two separate systems based on categories. I wasted four hours trying every conceivable scenario, absolutely convinced that there was some way to make it work. Why else would they have categories? Would they really design ActiveSync to dump data from one PC to another with no regard for what the user wanted? I should have known better. :twisted: Surprise surprise, that's what people were complaining about for years, and I'd always assured them that "categories were the answer" because that's what the product managers told me - yet I never had two PCs to sync against because I work from my home and never tested my own advice. I owe the Pocket PC world an apology &lt;sigh>.<br /><br />I felt like <i>such an idiot</i> :oops: when I discovered the truth about ActiveSync: Microsoft never intended for a Pocket PC to sync with more than one computer and keep the data isolated. So the answer to people that ask about syncing to multiple PCs is that unless they want to co-mingle all their data, they should only create a partnership on ONE computer and be a guest on the other. How "real world" is that? Not very. <br /><br />I think the entire Mobile Devices team should be given the task of taking their Pocket PCs home, creating a partnership, and not letting any Microsoft corporate data leak onto their personal computers - then they'd see the agony normal users go through, and what a significant problem this is.

[jpzr]

So the answer to people that ask about syncing to multiple PCs is that unless they want to co-mingle all their data, they should only create a partnership on ONE computer and be a guest on the other. How "real world" is that? Not very.


Yes, some time ago I also thought that I will use my iPAQ as a "outlook container" to trasmit appointments/calendar/messages from office to home - by syncing in both these places.

I also cannot understand why it is NOT POSSIBLE to sync with 2 PCs at once - this is THE BASIC USE CASE: 1 at home and 1 in office. What for this fancy Bluetooth, WiFi and other stuff if BASIC feature is not working?

[EyePAQ]

That's why I got in the annoying habit of marking thngs Private, so when I sync at work, people don't get to see that I have to have my handheld remind this feable mind that I have take out the garbage every Thursday night.

[dazz]

You CAN use categories to filter contacts, addresses, tasks, etc but would have to use a third party sync app. I know that TrueSync will do it and I assume the other sync apps will as well.

dazz

[phillypocket]

I thought the point was to co-mingle that data. Originally I used catagories to filter my contact list, although I eventually stopped as it was easy enough to tap a couple of times on the tab and the scroll throught the list. The only complaint I had about activesync functionality expectations is that I can't sync mail between multiple computers, which ended up being much less of a hardship than I first imagined. Actually I've been quite pleased with the syncing of contacts, notes and tasks. (It's nice to be able to redo a system, snap in my ipaq, and have all of my contact information right there, actually I haven't lost an address since I started using pdas about three years ago).

Maybe my expectations were lower, but I don't have nearly as much venom for activesync as people seem to have.

[Nutz]

Is there anything better than Active-sink? While I have never suffered data loss, the 'connectivity' is as good as useless - sometimes it syncs, but other times you have to unset and then reset USB - sometimes it tells you that you don't have USB even as a possibility.
I'm not quite sure how Microsoft manages to engineer such first-rate junk, but I for one want to ditch it and shell out some cash for something that works! :cry:

[gmelfissg]

how may computers do you need to sync from. you should do it from one pc (main one) only. the other sync should be guest. what kind of imbecile sync with 5 computers at the time for their contacts, task or notes. Geee, .. sync all your computers on one and then sync that computer with your pocket pc ... whta are you computer specialists or geek that don't know nothing about how to think ... i disapointed of you Jason !!!! :lol:

[Jason Dunn]

I thought the point was to co-mingle that data.


On the Pocket PC, yes, but not between a work computer and a home computer - that's the problem. See, if when you were setting up a partnership with a new PC ActiveSync would, upon first connection, let you select which categories from the Pocket PC you want put on the PC, and vice-versa, this wouldn't be a problem. But by default, it takes all the content from your Pocket PC and puts it onto the desktop - thus transferring all your personal contacts onto your work computer. How much does that suck? Worse, if you then go into Contacts options in ActiveSync and say "ok, only sync WORK contacts", it won't clean your personal contacts from the Outlook database. If you delete those contacts manually from Outlook, guess what it does? It removes them from your Pocket PC, even though you told it to only sync the WORK category. Words can't express how bad this all functions.

I say this with the deepest respect for everyone, but if you don't understand how dysfunctional ActiveSync is, you haven't used it in enough scenarios. 1 PC, 1 Pocket PC, 1 set of data - works well. Anything more? Painful.

[Jason Dunn]

how may computers do you need to sync from. you should do it from one pc (main one) only. the other sync should be guest. what kind of imbecile sync with 5 computers at the time for their contacts, task or notes.
I complain when there's something worth complaining about - and ActiveSync is worth kicking up a fuss over. If we're silent, Microsoft doesn't think there's a problem. I once told someone at Microsoft that I felt ActiveSync was responsible for 80% of the frustrations people have with Pocket PCs, and I still believe that today. In terms of how many computers people sync with, while I bet the majority use one computer, is two so hard to fathom? One home computer, one work computer. Why do you think they sell extra cradles and power adaptors? So you can have two at your desk, one on each side of your monitor? :roll: I've talked to quite a few people that want to sync with three machines: work, home, laptop. What evidence do you have that people only use one computer to sync against?

I'll ignore the rest of your insults because in looking at your posting history I see you have a habit of blasting others so I'll assume that you have some deep need to do so and leave it at that. :D

[MBurch]

I think the entire Mobile Devices team should be given the task of taking their Pocket PCs home, creating a partnership, and not letting any Microsoft corporate data leak onto their personal computers - then they'd see the agony normal users go through, and what a significant problem this is.

Amen! Brother!
I'd like to selectively synch with three computers...but can't. I'd like my system at home to have my calendar so my wife can check my schedule. I'd like it to synch completely with my desktop at work and then dump just the calendar and tasks to my laptop. But no go.

I also share your pain over the way you have to create a whole new partnership if you hard reset the PPC. I tried going into the registry and tweaking this, only to have ActiveStink make me rename the thing a third time. By that time it kindly deleted my devices "My Documents" folder and I lost a few important documents I had not backed up.

[Kre]

What I want to know is why we never hear from anybody at Microsoft in these forums. Why dont they ever respond or participate in these discussions?

[Snkscore]

Part of the reason I wrote TCSync (http://www.tcsync.com) was because I was so frustrated with using Activesync. Primarly I wanted to be able to keep my files in their current folders, espically when I was performing large "gets" on visual source safe databases frequently. So for me my folder structure is C:\Data\ProjectName\..... Sometimes the folders go up to 12 levels deep so if I need a few files from each level it becomes a REAL pain to frequently have to copy the ones I need to my PPC sync folder.

From the perspective of keeping all home files completely off your work computer and vice versa, TCSycn will not be able to do that, but from a usability standpoint, TCSync may solve some of the problems involving the use of files from both work and home.

For example, with TCSync you be able to select specific files and/or folders that would by synced to different locations on your different computers. That is a mouth-full. Let me give a very simple example:
Lets say that you actually LIKE the idea of having all your synced file in 1 folder, but don't want to see your work files at home or your home files at work... On your work computer you could create a folder on your desktop called POCKETPC, and select different files and/or folders from your PocketPC that are work related to sync into this POCKETPC folder. You could then repeate the process at home, creating a POCKETPC folder on your home computers desktop and selecting to have TCSync sync "home related" files/folders into this folder.

This way when viewing the desktop POCKETPC folder on either your work or home computer will only show you the files you designated to be either your work files (on your work desktop) or your home files (on your home desktop).

Because TCSync works WITH ActiveSync, all the files in your PocketPC \My Documents folder will still be synced to your desktop "sync folder" (typically C:\My Documents\Pocket_PC My Documents\), but when using TCSync in this case, you would never access that folder anyway.

Christopher May
[email protected]

[Jason Dunn]

What I want to know is why we never hear from anybody at Microsoft in these forums. Why dont they ever respond or participate in these discussions?

Well, for what it's worth, I usually send these along to the ActiveSync team, but I doubt we'll see them venture in here. It's a little scary for them. ;-)

[Peseta]

I'm also such an apparent "imbecile". :wink:
As a consultant I've a PC at home. at my employers office and at a clients office where I work a few days a week.

At my company they don't need to know my personal contacts, appointments and tasks [and files].
At my clients office they off course don't need to know my personal info, but neither my contacts / appointments / tasks and files concerning other clients
At home I want to sync all.

So, in addition to syncing with the categories as filter [using "private" doesn't work filtering for 2 different computers] I'd also really like to sync files from different folders on my PPC.

[PeterLake]

Couldn't agree more, Jason. I sync with 2 computers and have the same problem. It would be so easy to change ActiveSync so that it could filter based on categories, and I am mystified why MS can't be bothered.

[Janak Parekh]

Ironically, the lack of category-based syncing doesn't bother me at all. I'm a consultant, so I like having the data completely synched across machines. I just set up categories and then do View By Category in Outlook 2002, works great for me.

What does annoy me to no end, though, is that I can only sync with 2 machines. Why??? I have a laptop, a machine at home, and a machine at 2 different workplaces I am. I'd like to sync with all 4.

While I'm ranting: you also cannot sync two machines that use Outlook connected to an Exchange server (that is, one of them must store data in Personal Folders).

I think the problem is that Microsoft established basic functionality and left it at that. Pass those suggestions on, Jason!

--bdj

[Sven Johannsen]

Hear, hear. I must say that if you have ever messed with multiple replicated Databases that are disconnected at some times and need to be synchronized regularly, it is a management nightmare. This is in essence what is going on with multiple DBs (contacts, Calendar, etc) on the various machines, without the expertise of a database admin to ensure the replications and synchronization goes smoothly. The more options, and the more instances you get, the hairier it gets. Enough of that.

I certainly need three partnerships, home, work, laptop. It would be really nice if my wife could do her, home work, laptop. Now it would be even niftier if we could sync, joint info. Deconflict calendars, update each others common contacts. It has always amazed me that there isn't even good way of syncing my laptop with my desktop Outlook data, or syncing two instances of Outlook.

[Mark (NL)]

It would be so easy to change ActiveSync so that it could filter based on categories, and I am mystified why MS can't be bothered.
Cause they are Micro$oft and they always are "right".....

It is just a shame that these kind of things make the PocketPC expieriance to such a nightmare! The devices are great (well most of them) the OS is getting better... and active stink never keeps up! It is slow doesn't do what it is supposed to do, and after every hard reset you end up with yet another pocket pc my documents folder! I used to have a Psion and they had this right the first time! Kinda sad to see that M$ after 3+ yrs of sync "developement" still thinks it isn't important!

[gmelfissg]

i'm going to say kit again so people understand.

sync all your pc on one pc and then sync your pc with your pocket pc, is it so hard to do, do you want me to so you how Jason ?

[gmelfissg]

Hi to all,

i wanted to say i'm sorry for the bad thing said by me, you will not hear of that from me anymore, i guess i'm been working veryz hard recently travellling Montreal Dallas everyweeks for the last year so i guess it got to me sorry.

You are right active sync is a poor application not well designed by Microsoft, i guess that what you got when it's free...

anyway i read your pleas about being able to connect to more tan one pc, me i'm lucky because my home pc and work is the same a laptop that i carry al the time.

so i hope microsoft will be fixing the problem(s) soon.


keep[ up the good world Jason.

Giuseppe

[JonathanA]

Just to add another variable into this equation: Why can't we ActiveSync more than one device at a time? With 802.11b (WiFi) it's quite easy to have one device (e.g. laptop) "connected" to the desktop PC when another (PDA) needs to sync'. Why can't we have either a version of ActiveSync that can handle more than one connection at a time OR more than one ActiveSync process running on the host PC, each looking at a different "port" or transport (ethernet/USB/COM port)?

[marlof]

how may computers do you need to sync from. you should do it from one pc (main one) only. the other sync should be guest. what kind of imbecile sync with 5 computers at the time for their contacts, task or notes.

Ever since I got a job eons ago, I wanted to be aware of both my professional and private information at the same time. And since I have gotten a Pocket PC, I want to sync both to my Pocket PC.

I want to know both the addresses of my friends and of my work contacts when I look in my Pocket PC. But I don't want my work to know the addresses of my friends (or the tasks that come from my honey-do list). Nor would I like having my confidential work related information on my computer at home. Not everybody has the priviledge to be able to carry everything everywhere. To some, esp. when dealing with confidential information, there are limitations. That doesn't make me an imbecile, it makes me responsible.

Your solutions to me would mean the following:
* I should get a Pocket PC to sync with each, and carry two. One marked "private" and the other marked "work". So I'd need to buy a second Pocket PC to keep my info seperate where other sync conduits than activesync could easily do what I want with one. Addidional cost of one extra Pocket PC: at least $399.
* Get a third PC in a location only I have access to (not at work, and not at home), sync my work and home PC to that, and then sync my Pocket PC to that. Additional cost of one extra PC: $500 (I'd be happy with a second hand one).

My solution: enhance Activesync, and as long as it is not get a true profiled sync conduit. Additional cost for the software: about $80.

Now I'm going to think about which solution would be better.....

[Daniel]

I use ActiveSync to sync my work PC & my home PC (well I used to, I have a TiBook now and haven't bought PocketMac yet), I never really had any problem with it.
To tell you the truth, I wanted everything to be on both machines.
I actually switched to using the web-based syncing tool fusionOne. Excellent service.
Of course I understand what you are saying and recognise that it must be highly annoying.
Given MSs form throughout most of its existence we can extrapolate the theory here: All non-core products are written in such a way that encourages people to write their own.
Examples? Disk defragmenter, aha you exlaim! That's licenced of another company. This is true, but they had their own version first which was lame. Disk burning in XP is another example. There are others but I'll stop boring you now. :)
I just wish that I could get the bloody backup/restore working!

Daniel

[jeff]

Couldn't agree more, Jason. I sync with 2 computers and have the same problem. It would be so easy to change ActiveSync so that it could filter based on categories, and I am mystified why MS can't be bothered.

Because they don't care. All MS is concerned with is connectivity so they can get their hands on some usage charges. Why else would they make absolutely zero improvements to the Pocket Office apps while introducing Messenger, Terminal Client, VPN, Phone Edition, and and "improved" Pocket IE?

In their mind everyone will have to buy the Exchange Mobile component so there is no desktop synching. You keep everything up to date wirelessly and pay through the nose.

Jeff

[Gordo]

I too would also like to sync with three computers, but have not ventured past trying to sync two. Having recently lost information as a result of battery drain, and suffered through re-establishing a partnership, I would like to see an “Idiots Guide to ActiveSync”. I think Microsoft should pay someone to write this guide so that while they fix ActiveSync, we can at lest understand how to use the crippled version.

[gmelfissg]

hi to all,

just wanted to say im sorry for those harsh word. i've been in lot of pressure in the last year (dallas-montreal(canada) everyweek and i think the pressure got to me. From now on i will try to be more civillized in my owne choice words.

i do agree active sync is not a very well designed application and Microsoft should fix it. Hoepfully they will fro you want to do out there.

Finally sorry Jason to have been a pain on the forum, i willbe more peaceful from now on. Keep up the good work you re doing a good job and you are the first site i always visits everyday.

Giuseppe

[nosaturn]

What I want to know is why we never hear from anybody at Microsoft in these forums. Why dont they ever respond or participate in these discussions?

Well, for what it's worth, I usually send these along to the ActiveSync team, but I doubt we'll see them venture in here. It's a little scary for them. ;-)

There are some MS people listening :wink:

[jdhill]

I feel your pain guys. When I first got a Windows CE device (Cassiopeia E-10) I figured I'd sync with both the home and work desktop systems. Bad idea!!! After fighting with duplicate items and missing items I finally just gave up and synced with one system (using the Private check box to hide personal data).

Yo, Pocket PC team !!! Wake up !!! This doesn't work very well !!!

And while you are fixing the multiple partnership issue, could you also please fix the issue of simultaneous conflicting updates on appointment reminders??? If I postpone a reminder for 1 hour on my desktop, then 10 minutes later I postpone the same appointment reminder for 1 hour on my Pocket PC, please, Please, PLEASE don't flag this as a conflict. Give me an option to take the earliest or latest next reminder time automatically. I spend WAY TOO MUCH TIME resolving these conflicting updates !!!

[mhowie]

I'm one that uses my PocketPC to sync with Outlook at home and do not use it to sync with my corporate computer (I do not want them to have access to my schedule on their machines and they do not promote the use of Outlook).

Anyway, I'm curious if the Palm Hotsync (PocketMirror) suffers from this deficiency-- or is it even an option?

Thanks,

[possmann]

I share everyone's pain here... I was thinking that I could keep my business seperate from my home and that way only my personal contacts/private stuff would be on my home computer and the business laptop would have everything.

that would have been cool - I hope that the PocketPC teams are looking to create that ability for those of us who would like to keep things seperate...

Just another off-topic note: What gives with Dale's site? I've been trying to get to www.pocketpcpassion for about a week and I keep getting page not able to be displayed... Any news on when Dale's site will be back on line?

[Rob Alexander]

I think the entire Mobile Devices team should be given the task of taking their Pocket PCs home, creating a partnership, and not letting any Microsoft corporate data leak onto their personal computers - then they'd see the agony normal users go through, and what a significant problem this is.

For that matter, they should just be required to actually USE their PPCs at all. There's no way that anyone who uses one would make some of the decisions they've made. For example, I don't seem to recall ever hearing an actual user say something like, "Please take away repeating alarms. It's such a nuisance the way they actually let me know that it's time for an appointment." :x This Activesync issue is just another of many examples of how they just really don't get it.

[Will T Smith]

I strongly suspect that Microsoft doesn't pursue some of these solutions in ActiveSync because their Exchange products address some of these issues.

Of course Exchange doesn't really help independent users. However, a more functional ActiveSync could discourage large organizations from purchasing the Mobile Information Server as similar functionality would already be "built in".

---------------------

Second thought: Data Syncronization ... in general.

Data Sync really is a tricky concept especially when you introduce a third sync point. Yes, version control software DOES do a good job of managing changes. However, it only operates on ASCII text, AND ... Merge operations are at best tricky as a programmer truly is required to oversee the merge and then gauruntee that it builds properly afterward. It is not trivial, it requires USER intervention.

So many files that we use consists of lots of DISCREET data. My favorite example is eWallet. The data file is binary. ActiveSync doesn't have a prayer of reconciling differences between two files. It can only keep one and DISCARD another.

ActiveSync also handles individual Outlook items in this way. It does not merge entries ... say in your Address Book. The latest copy is kept. There is no available "MERGE" operation.

Of course any Merge function must have rules regarding when item's CAN and CANNOT be merged. My thought is that Microsoft should design a spec in XML to enable development of ActiveSync compliant, mergeable files.

------------------------------

Those syncing on more than one computer. Just remember this HUGE tip. Treat the PocketPC as the "Master Data Copy". That is, in the Sync rules, ALWAYS prefer changes on PocketPC to changes on the desktop. It is the "hub" of your data. You really have no other choice.

--------------------------------

Last thought: Personal Information Server

It seems to me that many home and personal users could benefit from robust, reliable document management. They could also benefit from shared user directories in a home network environment. I strongly believe that a peer to peer to peer user AND document management product is necessary.

Home users simply can't and will not float the green for a home Exchange server. The setup and maintenance is just to much to deal with. However, scaled down versions are certainly possible. They don't require a "dedicated" server. Only a peer "coordinator" that would sort things out when it's online and available.

Outlook is the pan-ultimate example of a product that NEEDS this. Not only in a personal notebook-workstation setting. But also in a home, multi-user setting where users can advertise and sync offline with reconciliation.

[Terry]

For the life of me, I am completely mystified. My trusy Jornada and my home and work computers have all decided that they sometimes want to be guests, sometimes want to sync, and somtimes want to duplicate all my contacts, appointments, and tasks. Some days I think it's HPC Notes related, some days I think it's USB related...maybe it's XP at the office and 2K at home. Maybe it's ActiveSync. Maybe I need to switch to an iPaq.

FWIW Jason, I think that ragging on MS to fix ActiveSync is more important than optimizing X-Scale!

-T

[cessquill]

I originally shelled out for an Ipaq in the hope that I was upgrading synchronisation capabilities up from a Psion.

Call me an imbecile, but think things through before you blast out - you're only making yourself look bad - but here goes...

I have a machine at home with Outlook for email, contacts and calendar, all of which gets used a great deal. I have a machine at work with exactly the same. The company can take a dim view of using the work machine for personal use, so I'd very much like to keep personal information off it. The company would also take a dim view of taking work information outside of the domain onto a home machine (PDA is just about acceptable - but only if it's password protected).

I therefore wanted to use the Ipaq to have a global view of both diaries at once, but under no circumstances did I want it to merge data. What is so inconceivable about that? I have a work and personal life - both of which are as important as each other - and what I don't want is the Ipaq to act as a messanger to the world.

I've found that by using categories and synchronisation rules I can filter data coming off the PC into the Ipaq, but not the other way. As soon as it's on the Ipaq it'll put it everywhere it can. This then has problems when work data hits my home PC (as it did the first time, and I had a job clearing it all off), as my home PC then started asking who all these people were in my meeting requests. Not good at all. Not thought through.

Are there any plans/workarounds to solve this? I apologise that I'm a bit of a newbie with PocketPC's - 'upgrading' from a Psion, so I assume I'm going over old ground, but my frustrations were a little bit high when I had to work out that there was no easy way to strip my Ipaq of four year's worth of appointments so that I could start again when there was a solution...

[cessquill]

Bit of a newbie to this having 'upgraded' from a Psion, but I agree with all the negative comments to ActiveSync in this thread...

I have a machine at work and a machine at home and for many reasons I have to keep my work's data off my home machine and vice versa, but I do want a summary of my diary and tasks on the Ipaq. Work take a dim view of putting company confidential information on my home machine (plus meeting request posts start asking who is Mr X and Mrs Y when agenda items copy over). They also do not like me using my work diary for private use. They'll accept the data on a pocket pc.

I appreciate that ActiveSync can provide a one-way filter with categories (in that you can restrict what is copied to the pocketPC, but not from), but I need two way filtering that's different on both machines.

Are there any plans for this to be done in future versions of ActiveSync do we know, or is there an alternative tool (or method)?

By the way, is there anywhere in an outlook entry that tells you how many years since it was created? One of the features of an 'anniversary' in the Psion was to automatically display somebody's age - Outlook seems too corporate for that.