R.I.P. Jornada

[Jeff Kirvin]

<a href="http://www.writingonyourpalm.net/column020513.htm">http://www.writingonyourpalm.net/column020513.htm</a><br /><br />The HP Jornada is dead, the latest victim of an ugly corporate merger. What does this mean to the handheld market, and what does it mean to consumers?<br /><br />This week, I want to talk about a disturbing news item that left me despondent and muttering to myself. I felt like the robot in that Circuit City commercial... "Don't take her! I love her! Weeping, weeping, weeping..."<br /><br />In the wake of their merger with Compaq, Hewlett Packard has begun the long and arduous process of trimming their product lines, cutting the overlapping, redundant products. HP's Windows-based servers are out in favor of Compaq's Proliant series. HP's Vectra business PCs are gone. And... I'm having trouble typing this... The HP Jornada series of Pocket PCs is dead.<br /><br />While all of the Pocket PC 2002 devices have their issues, the Jornada 560 series came the closest to perfection. The 560s are thin, light, have side controls for easy ebook reading, great battery life, internal CF expansion -- which is still far cheaper and more flexible than SD -- an integrated screen cover so you don't have to bulk up the device with a case, slimmer expandability than the iPaq sleeves, and oh, yeah, the best screen around for ClearType readability.<br /><br />All of that's gone now (well, probably -- see below). My sources tell me the 560 series will still be manufactured for a few more months, then it's gone for good, and the "HP iPAQ" is the new handheld on the block. For those of us that dislike the iPAQ's slippery feel, ClearType-crippled screen, overall bulk and lack of side controls, this is a dark day.<br /><br />Read the rest <a href="http://www.writingonyourpalm.net/column020513.htm">here<a>.

[Terry]

It's really a shame that HP didn't decide to go ahead with the 57x series at a steal-of-a-price (even E-Bay them)...many of us who have been using the 54x and 56x Jornadas would have purchased them, felt happy rather than sad/mad, and MAY have moved to the iPAQ in a couple of years.

HP has also killed off all of the other lines we use (Vectra, NetServer, RackStorage, OmniBook, TopTools)...as a friend of mine says, "Good thing HP didn't merge with CISCO too...they probably would have dropped the router division because sales were slack).

As it is, I'm unlikely to purchase Compaq HP-rebranded hardware. I'm just too ticked off. :evil:

[jake]

Jeff Hawkins, the guy who basically invented the category uses his Treo everyday as a tool and that is why it is soooo good. The number one PPC that showed the best potential just got nuked???

What is going on?

Do yourself a favor and get a Treo. The color ones will be out soon if you need color.
If you want to read more about why the Treo is the Pocket PC killer goto:
http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=77

[paris18m]

well why wont anyone take this merger possitive?
HP did drop the jordana pocket PC line but did you ever think that they desided to do coz they thought this was best???

i've read that the iPAQ life was 2 years anyway and then i would be redesigned. but why was ipaq pocket pc a sucess? and not HP pocket pc?

Personally i think that very nice things will be brought to the Pocket PC world via this merger. just think HP and compaq pocket PC teams working together and mixing all their ideas in one device. I beleive that this will make the HP iPaq Pocket PC a killer pocket pc. just think of iPaq cool design with removeable sleeves a bit thinner with CF and SD card slots a usb, side controls, removeable battey out of the box and the best part intergrated wireless capabilites.

just think possitive and think what these 2 teams will be capable of bringing out in the market once they set their minds to work together.

[griph]

What is going on?


As annoying as it may seem, the merger of Compaq and HP made this inevitable. Despite those that dislike the Ipaq, the majority would seem to disagree - you only ned to look at the sales figures for each machine. If the Jornada was :that: good then it would have been the market PPC leader. This is clearly a commercial decision and I am sure that those who have Jornada's will find another machine to move onto - it's a volatile market.

[HowlingBears]

I adore my 568--and I dearly hope this power-shift doesn't doom us to the iPAQ form factor for long. I rather expect it won't (maybe some bright folks will figure out how to mount a similarly functional flip-cover on the LOOX), and I'd planned to make use of my 568 for another year or so anyways, so I'm not gonna stress too much about it. I suppose I'd better scrimp together the cash for whatever other accessories I want for it, though, like that extended battery pack...

[LightMan]

I adore my 568--and I dearly hope this power-shift doesn't doom us to the iPAQ form factor for long. I rather expect it won't (maybe some bright folks will figure out how to mount a similarly functional flip-cover on the LOOX), and I'd planned to make use of my 568 for another year or so anyways, so I'm not gonna stress too much about it. I suppose I'd better scrimp together the cash for whatever other accessories I want for it, though, like that extended battery pack...

I'm totally with you...I bought the thumbs keyboard recently and now, I have a perfect pocketPC for my needs...well, just needing the 512 CF, but it's still too pricey for me, so I'll stick with 256 Mb (need more room for digital photos...I'm also photo crazy like Jeff ;) LOL )

I will definately keep my 568 as long as it performs well and compatible ARM soft keeps coming out. Basically that's it, so I figure at least another 6 to 8 months. Then, if the new HP Ipaq isn't as bulky-lookin' as the current Ipaq, I might think about it or change to Loox/new Toshibas...

Time will tell :)

[lar3ry]

In the wake of their merger with Compaq, Hewlett Packard has begun the long and arduous process of trimming their product lines, cutting the overlapping, redundant products. HP's Windows-based servers are out in favor of Compaq's Proliant series. HP's Vectra business PCs are gone. And... I'm having trouble typing this... The HP Jornada series of Pocket PCs is dead.

Actually, it is my understanding that, yes, the Journada line will be discontinued, but also that the new HP will be merging the best of both products into a new iPAQ. Like it or not, the iPAQ was more of a success than Journada. And since iPAQ has the name recognition, HP would be silly to give up that marketing edge.

When HP announced the end of life of certain product lines (some from the legacy Compaq, some from legacy HP), the idea wasn't to just get rid of the duplicates, but rather to integrate the strengths of both in future products.

To cite an example that I am intimately familiar with, Tru64 Unix for Alpha will be discontinued. However, HP will continue releasing new versions of Tru64, and at the same time, actively integrate things that Tru64 does better than HP/UX into HP/UX (TruClusters comes immediately to mind; IPv6 would probably be there as well, and others). People with the "old" platforms won't be left in the cold, and future customers will get the best of both products, hopefully.

Once again, I'm biased here (note my "Location" and avatar). But I believe that you are mistaken if you think that all those things that you liked about Journada will simply be forgotten or discarded.

[don dre]

I don't think it is much cause for concern. Based on sales figures (in case anyone was wonderginthey are still a profit driven co) it was a no brainer. I think the ipaq was in its last run anyways. I expect one more generation and then it will be redisigned. I never much liked the smaller screen and dimness of the jornada (I'm an ipaq user) nor the style or feel of the device. Personally, I think both devices would have had a run for their money with all the new competitors. Toshiba and audiovox are fragmenting the ppc market (which is good) with their lower priced handhelds. I'm keeping my eye on th eloox for now but the days of only a few handheld makers are over. Still, not sure it makes sense to merge but that is a whole different story.

[RobertCF]

I'm sorry, but I was singularly unimpressed by the Jornadas with they came out, which is why I went with the iPaq. I just don't understand the seemingly obsessive compulsion people expressed about a stupid flip cover. If I wanted something that looked like a Star Trek communicator, I'd buy myself a frelling cell phone. And that silly little scroll bar? Sheesh, I use the joypad for scrolling through screens. And I realize asthetics are totally subjective, but I think the Jornadas were just plain ugly.

I'm a realist, though, and sadly I think future devices will see somewhat of a departure from the current iPaq design toward more of a melding of the HP and Compaq concepts. I've always like the sleeve concept because of the limitless expandability that the ide offers (and has offered), but I'm betting that will disappear with future iPaqs. No, suffice to say that you HP enthusiasts have probably not seen a complete disappearance of Jornadas....hmm, speaking of Star Trek, I'm suddenly thinking of the end of ST:TMP when Decker and Ilia "merged"......

[Paragon]

Good article Jeff!

I think, or hope we are over reacting to the demise of the Jornada. It is due mostly to fear. Fear that the Jornada form factor will be lost. That form factor was ready to really take off. PPC finally had a device that could take on Palm in the area that Palm continually won hands down....ease of use. I don't mean ease of use of software, but in hardware. Here was a device that had internal expansion, could do what most people needed a device to do, and it slid in to your pocket, unnoticed, and unfelt. That was no small matter.

Many have said that the Ipaq sold more...yes it had been on the market longer and therefore had developed a larger loyal customer base. The HP560 took a big chunk out of that market away from the Ipaq in its first offering. Imagine how much more it would have taken if it wasn't for the 'dust' issue, and if it had stayed on the market longer.

The one thing the HP560 series lacked was proper multiple expansion possiblilties. Yes you could use a PC sled, but it took up the CF slot. Yes it had an MMC slot as well, but the day of SD is not here yet. Having the ability to add 128mb of exta storage to many was just not enough.

I truely hope that this merger will mean that HP will design a device that will offer a combination of the form factor of the HP560 series and the expandablity of the Ipaq. Could you imagine.... Man, why would you buy anything else.

Just to keep the record straight I'm keeping my Newton.... oh sorry my Jornada. If HPs new device does not offer the 560 form factor I ain't buyin'. I think it is our duty as Jornada owners to repeat that feeling as often as possible so there can be no doubt in HPs mind what they have in store if they mess with that form factor.

Dave

[GregWard]

just think possitive and think what these 2 teams will be capable of bringing out in the market once they set their minds to work together.

I don't want to sound negative but this does assume there ARE still two teams! The new company will - no doubt - be looking for "synergy savings" to appease shareholders - especially after all the debate.

[Jimmy Dodd]

One of the arguments most often made in favor of keeping the iPaq and dumping the Jornada is sales figures: "The iPaq sold x number of units more than the Jornada." I have never really seen any numbers that disregard the original iPaq and the 540 series, though. If we only take into consideration the second generation units (the 56o series and the new iPaqs - I can't keep the iPaq numbers straight, sorry) what are the sales comparisons like then? Obviously the original iPaq was far superior to the Jornada 540 series in terms of processing power. That alone would account for many sales ("133MHz vs. 206 MHz, hmmm which one should I buy?").

If the 540 series had been ARM based the whole picture might have been different.

As it is I'm still waiting for an XScale device, anyway. I don't care if they call it "Bob."

- BwanaJim

[indy500099]

I just had a bad time with my 568. I returned it 3 times, I got sick of driving to Best Buy for replacement. I have no time for that, I am a busy guy. In the end I went for an Ipaq. I just can´t stand paying so much money for a stupid dusty device. This is not a dark day at all, this is a GOOD day for doing things right, the way it should have been done since the beggining. So long HP, I am not gonna miss ya baby :twisted:

[Jeff Kirvin]

I just had a bad time with my 568. I returned it 3 times, I got sick of driving to Best Buy for replacement. I have no time for that, I am a busy guy. In the end I went for an Ipaq. I just can´t stand paying so much money for a stupid dusty device. This is not a dark day at all, this is a GOOD day for doing things right, the way it should have been done since the beggining. So long HP, I am not gonna miss ya baby :twisted:

Hey, that's cool. Everyone's opinion is valid...

BTW, do you have your red/blue 3-D glasses for reading ClearType on the iPAQ? :twisted:

[oturn]

I loved my iPAQ 3630 until the Jornada 560 series arrived. My 568 was everything I wanted in a Pocket PC. The iPAQ sat around for a few months after failing to meet the reserve price I had set on eBay. However, something strange began to happen. Every time I'd turn on the iPAQ (after recharging it's dead battery), my reaction was "Wow!", what a beautiful screen. I'd use it and enjoy it for a day or so, then the battery would die and I'd go back to the Jornada.

Computing is visual. Our primary interfaces to computers are the keyboard and the screen. I've never skimped on monitors on my PC, as they have a dramatic impact on the usability and enjoyment of computing. I began to realize that computing with the Pocket PC was no different. Despite it's fantastic design, I just couldn't get over the smaller screen on the Jornada. I know, I know, it's not that much smaller, and the Jornada can display many more colors, plus the screen actually looks a bit clearer because of it's smaller size, but size does matter! I found the iPAQ to be visually stunning and much more enjoyable to use, whereas the Jornada was dull and boring, despite it's improvements over the iPAQ.

Anyway, now my iPAQ has been upgraded by pocketpctechs.com to 128MB and a PGF battery, and the Jornada is sold. I'm suddenly thrilled again every time I turn it on, just like the old days.

What's my point? It's that there as many reasons to love or hate a design as there are people. The folks that make these decisions don't have time for observations like mine, they just look at the numbers. Personally I'm glad the iPAQ "won", but I'm also excited about the potential for the next generation of devices. Imagine a visually stunning device with a large screen, plus all the advancements of the Jornada line. Pretty exciting!

Actually I'm most excited about the Toshiba Genio e550G coming out this summer...a 4 inch screen! WooHoo!

Oran

[jmulder]

I think it's interesting that most iPaq users can't see why the Jornada users are upset. All I hear is 'but the iPaq is better' or some variation on it (to be fair, the response is usually 'nuh-uh, the Jornada is better' or some variation on that). What people are forgetting is that some of us have been HP users for a long time and our brand loyalty is being repaid with a discontinued product.

If you had owned 5 Ford Mustangs over the last 30 years and GM bought the Ford Motor Company, and told you that they were discontinuing the Mustang because the Corvette sold better (I know, I know...it doesn't)...how would you feel?

-Jim

[Paragon]

this is a GOOD day for doing things right, the way it should have been done since the beggining. :twisted:


UUhhhmmm correct me if I'm wrong. Wasn't it Compaq who brought the idea of dusty screens to PPCs in the first place... doing things right in the beginning, I don't know about that one.

Dave

[Jason Dunn]

Great article Jeff!

I for one will miss the Jornada, if only for the very simple reason that with the screen cover I could slip it in my pocket without hassle - iPAQs need to be protected with a case, which adds significant bulk. Portability is key to a Pocket PC, and that one thing always frustrated me about the iPAQ. Sometimes I simply got sick of looking like a geek with my Vaja case clipped to my belt. :roll:

[Kemas]

My understanding from HP is that the IPAQ is on the chopping block too, just at end of life, not immediate. After that, the Jornada rides again. The Jornada name is supposed to live on. So if I understand it correctly the X-Scale Pocket PC will be known as a Jornada something or other. The IPAQ is a compaq naming scheme and it makes sense that is will go away as all Compaq names are tareged for "termination" over a period of time.

My hope is they will take the best of both worlds and create a cool device. My money is now on Fujitsu's product though moving forward.

I am sure though, everything at HP is tenative while they figure out how to handle the meal they just ate... Compaq being the meal.

[tccox]

Well Jeff, pretty strong words against the IPAQ. I also had 1 Jornada 548 (loved it, still the highest quality PDA ever built IMHO) Sold it to buy a Jornada 568, returned it after 3 weeks because of dust, received second 568 , digitizer failed in it 3 weeks later, after a run in with HP CS (they said no replacements were avaliable) I returned this unit for a refund and bought a IPAQ 3835. Guess what, best decision I ever made. After owning and using both I far prefer the IPAQ, in every way to the Jornada 560 series. The larger screen is great for those of us with 49 year old eyes who had problem with the smaller Jornada screen. I can actually USE the IPAQ to read E-Books, I never could with the Jornada , the cleartype problem on the IPAQ ??? well I sure do not see it on mine. Very clear , very readable display.

[HR]

It's going to hurt sales and market presence. It looks like PPC is pretty low on MS's priority list. They must increase attention to this segment. They should try to enlist more manufacturers and target the consumers by creating a more consumuer-friendly version (and that mostly includes marketing, as the fundamental are already there).

[Janak Parekh]

I think it's interesting that most iPaq users can't see why the Jornada users are upset. All I hear is 'but the iPaq is better' or some variation on it (to be fair, the response is usually 'nuh-uh, the Jornada is better' or some variation on that). What people are forgetting is that some of us have been HP users for a long time and our brand loyalty is being repaid with a discontinued product.
Yup. This is why a lot of people argued against the merger - the loss of the "HP Way". To some extent it is valid: dust notwithstanding, HP generally stood for solid equipment and support. While the merger may work out I personally feel Carly did this to earn mucho $$$ herself.

--bdj

[paulv]

The people in this post who don't understand the sadness of HP users have forgotten why they chose their IPAQs. They hopefully looked at features and matched against their requirements to make a decision rather than relying on Compaq's marketing.

I selected my HP specifically because it had a dust cover / removeable battery / CF slot. That was a perfect match for my needs. A 4" screen would have been nice but not my main priority.

I'm saddened that users will lose the ability to choose between different PPC's with very different features. Compromising on product features won't win Hewlaq any friends at all. I don't want dodgy SD cards that cost double what CF cost. I don't want optional vinyl dust covers.

My only requirement now would be for a faster processor and a little more system RAM for my 565, and CF II of course, and then I'd be very happy. Of course I'd like MS to patch up their software a little but that's not ComPackard's fault.

[indy500099]

That is why I don't find strange the tendency towards this device. Since I don't adore a particular object or PDA, I wanted to share my very bad experiences with the Jornada series.I don't know about those 3-D glasses, I don't use my device for reading, I don't really believe in e-books yet, so clear type is not life or death.I know that the ipaq started the dust legacy, that is why I never considered buying an ipaq a couple of years ago. It is a shame that HP didn't learn from ipaq's lessons of the past.
I hope that with the HP ipaq merger, we can have the best of the Jornadas and the best of the ipaqs. R.I.P. to Jornada very welcomed, long live to the new Xscale devices, dust free I hope... 8O

[Jason Dunn]

A Jornada site? Well, I prefer the Jornada, but both Ed and Marlof use the iPAQ, as does Brad I think, and Sam was sort of "in the middle". :)

[Rob Alexander]

The people in this post who don't understand the sadness of HP users have forgotten why they chose their IPAQs. They hopefully looked at features and matched against their requirements to make a decision rather than relying on Compaq's marketing.

I can't speak for others, but this misses the point in my mind. I understand the initial sadness, but just think it's blown way out of proportion. The name 'Jornada' is just a word. I had a Jornada 430 (my wife still uses it) and it doesn't look or act anything like your current Jornadas. It's just a name. So you picked your Jornada because it has certain features you liked? Well, of course, but that's no guarantee that the next Jornada would have had those same features, or that the next iPaq won't.

Heck, the current iPaq can't last that much longer. The original iPaq was sleek at the time and designed from the ground up around features the team thought were important. The 3800 series is a kludge that adds some extra features, but that has completely lost the elegance of the original design. It was time for a new iPaq in the next year or so as well. So the Jornada and iPaq as we know them will disappear and something new will be developed and they'll call it an iPaq.

All they've done is to choose the brand name that people are more aware of to use for their future products. Whether they'll include a particular feature in the next version or not is something we'll just have to wait and see... but that would have been the case even without the merger.

I'm saddened that users will lose the ability to choose between different PPC's with very different features.

That's the most important consideration for users. The two lines were both strong competitors and this will end that. Still, we won't be without choices. Toshiba, Fujitsu and others are entering the game and will likely give the HP iPaq a run for their money. I don't think competition in this market is dead.

[paulv]

Still, we won't be without choices. Toshiba, Fujitsu and others are entering the game and will likely give the HP iPaq a run for their money. I don't think competition in this market is dead.

It's true that we'll still have choices although in smaller markets like ours there was only ever the choice between HP and Compaq who definitely produced very different machines (as much as MS allowed them anyway).

Toshiba would be a great competitor with it's fully featured machines but they just aren't getting much market awareness. Apart from Toshiba there's nothing else that really competes as a PPC with serious internal expansion.

I note on some posts that the only initial things that the "New HP" will be looking it include the removeable battery and making the camera work properly in whatever final package that the new IPAQ comes in.

I'm not personally fixated on the brand or model name, I'm only interested in the form factor and features in the Jornada 56x which would have continued in the 57x and likely in 2003 models. I'm not now convinced that these features will win over the current IPAQ's features in the battle of the HP/Compaq PDA teams.

[Paragon]

I'm not personally fixated on the brand or model name, I'm only interested in the form factor and features in the Jornada 56x which would have continued in the 57x and likely in 2003 models. I'm not now convinced that these features will win over the current IPAQ's features in the battle of the HP/Compaq PDA teams.

paulv

You are correct. I don't think most Jornada users are upset to see their device discontinued. That sort of thing happens everyday. It is the worry that the form factor may be discontinued that has most of us scared, I think

Dave

[Terry]

Last week I attended the Government Technology Conference (a trade show for computer people pandering to California State government) in Sacramento. HP had two booths, one for printers, one for computer hardware. The printer booth showcased HP printers (duh)...the computer hardware booth showcased 100% Compaq. Proliant servers, Compaq desktops (no mini-towers or small-form-factor), Compaq racks, Compaq, er HP, IPAQ 38xx, Compaq laptops.

Missing from the hardware booth was Jornada, Vectra, NetServer and Omnibook.

Hub and switches were hidden away (but I was told they were HP).

Staff working the booth were a combination of HP and Compaq marketing and engineers. All were wearing "HP Invent" polo shirts.

I was told by three different staff that the IPAQ was the next form-factor.

[Jeff Kirvin]

I was told by three different staff that the IPAQ was the next form-factor.

Frankly, if they can fix ClearType on that screen, I don't mind so much. The new "plus" sleeves provide screen protection and slimmer form factor than the old bricks, and it shouldn't been too difficult for some enterprising soul to code a small app that will allow the record button to mimic page down for ebook reading (hint, hint). I'll miss the stronger, removeable battery, though that is rumored to make a comeback in the iPAQ 5000 series.

Personally, I'm waiting to see if the rumors about an e310-like slimline iPAQ 2200 series pan out. If they put a decent-- Jornada-quality-- screen in it and give it a jog dial, it could be my next Pocket PC. I'd move to the Toshiba e310 now if the ClearType weren't so god-awful.

[griph]

I was told by three different staff that the IPAQ was the next form-factor.

Frankly, if they can fix ClearType on that screen, I don't mind so much. The new "plus" sleeves provide screen protection and slimmer form factor than the old bricks, and it shouldn't been too difficult for some enterprising soul to code a small app that will allow the record button to mimic page down for ebook reading (hint, hint).


I may be missing something here - but you can assign &lt;scroll down> and &lt;scroll right> to any button including the record button on an iPaq 3800 - I assume you can do the same with a 3600/3700? Then using Reader with the cover closed is a sinch!

[Jeff Kirvin]

Good call! I totally forgot about using the Buttons settings applet to map record to scroll down! One more thing drawing me to my Toshiba over my now defunct Jornada...

[Paragon]

I was told by three different staff that the IPAQ was the next form-factor.

God help us all! :( I have said this many times before and I will say it again. The Jornada form factor...lid, internal CF, and removeable battery made it truely a POCKET PC.

The Ipaq will continue to sell well and keep it's loyal following, BUT until it quits being a brick it is not going to steal much more market share. It has had it's day. For anything to continuely be the best it MUST evolve!!!

It was an incredible device in the year 2000, but it has been caught and surpassed. It is possible today to make a much smaller, user friendly device that is just as expandable as the Ipaq is.

Dave