HP Product Roadmaps

[Jason Dunn]

<a href="http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/07may02b.htm">http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/07may02b.htm</a> <br /><br />Another official nail in the Jornada coffin - this spells it out quite clearly: <br /><br />"The Compaq iPAQ™ Pocket PC, re-named the HP iPAQ Pocket PC, will be our smart handheld platform. The best of the current HP Jornada technology will be engineered into the platform. Jornada products will be phased out of the market in 2002. HP will continue to innovate in wireless, mobility and voice technology. HP also will offer the iPAQ Blackberry device for end-to-end wireless e-mail solutions, under the HP brand." Source: pt.<br /><br />I have to admit I was taken by surprise here - I knew that the Jornada would bite the bullet, but so soon? I thought the roadmaps for the products from both companies would remain unaltered for 18-24 months, and we'd see the newest devices coming out from both companies. Instead we see the Jornada will be phased out within seven months! Not very long before it will only be a memory. Alas, poor Jornada, I knew him well...

[isrjt]

What a bummer. What about the new 700 series will or are they being sold for a while. I really love my 680 and want to move up to the 720 maybe the price will bottom out on ebay and I can get a killer deal.

[Jason Dunn]

What a bummer. What about the new 700 series will or are they being sold for a while.


"End of 2002" - so I think we'll see them come out since they've already been announced...

[Paragon]

I posted this at pPCp also.....One word keeps going thru my head today 'Newton'

I'm sad to see the Jornadas discontinued. Not bitter, just sad. I fully understand the logic in the decision to drop the Jornadas. I really love the form factor, and was looking forward to getting a new Xscale version very soon.

I have a feeling that in a year or so when HP releases a newly designed device it will be a 'killer' If they design the HP/Ipaq around the Jornada form factor it will be just that, a killer.

And like most I'm so very happy for Carly, now that she has lined her pockets with several million dollars on this deal.

Dave

[Terry]

I too was shocked that these lines were dropped so early.

I will have to think long about purchasing a 57x Jornada...I have lots of accessories (I have an IPAQ too)...so I might just to squeeze another year out of the accessories...but HP has driven a nail into every product we use (Netserver, Vectra, Jornada)...only the hubs and switches aren't currently mentioned.

I think it's generally goodby HP/Compaq for me (maybe I'll feel better tomorrow, or maybe I won't).

[ledowning]

That's too bad. I've only had my 568 for a few months and a 548 prior to that. All those nice accessories that I purchased are going to be collectors items in a year. Too bad, because I really like the feel of the Jornada series compared to the other Pocket PC's. I thought that HPQ would take a little more time to decide what to keep.

:cry: :cry: :cry:

[JonnoB]

I upgraded from my old iPaq to a 568... do I now have to downgrade? Whether HP or Compaq were better is debatable. No question Compaq beat HP to be the coolest device in town. The 56x however eclipsed Compaq in my mind. I hope that the new 'iPaq' strategy is nothing more than a rebranding of exising Jornadas. If the hardware itself is going to end of life, this will leave a sour taste in many a mouth.

[speter]

I, too, hope this is simply a rebranding of the Jornada form factor, or else I will be going to the Zaurus sooner rather than later. Sleds are for snowy days!

[ppcsurfr]

What does "The best of the current HP Jornada technology will be engineered into the platform." mean?

Are we going to see a new device so soon?

[Will T Smith]

If they do indeed can the Jornada form-factor, it will be proof positive that this is the biggest/dumbest merger in computer industry history.

If you read the article in detail, you will see that they are continuing BOTH lines of PCs.

Wait let me repeat that. The stated purpose for the merger "... decreasing our exposure to the low-margin PC business" is not addressed by the initial roadmap.

BOTH LINES OF PCs ARE BEING RETAINED.

Now, let's look at the numbers and you'll see that the handheld and wireless sectors are experiencing substantial growth while the desktop PC market is actually RECEEDING!!!!

Carly Fiorina is a true female pioneer. It's glad to see that women are now equally empowered to make stupid self-serving decisions and run lots of good people out of work.

After throwing away most of the combined companies portfolios, this company will still have a large exposure to the PC business. This combined companies sales will be far less than the two combined. Dell, IBM, Gateway will be the prime beneficiaries. Merger costs of mind power and momentum will far outweigh any benefit.

Fiorina will get a huge pot of blood money. She will leave in one or two years right before the "new HP" begins a downward spiral. In time she will be lauded as a self-serving butcher.

Good job dumb-ass!!!!

[Ed Hansberry]

I too was shocked that these lines were dropped so early.

I will have to think long about purchasing a 57x Jornada...
I don't think you will get to make that decision. Even thought the product is done, would it make sense for HP to ramp up production and spend marketing money on a device that is dead in 7 months?

Few retailers would be willing to give up shelf space for a product with such a limited life span too.

[Rob Alexander]

We should keep in perspective that both products would be totally redesigned every couple of years even if the companies hadn't merged, so it's not like all of our current PPCs weren't going to become obsolete pretty soon anyway. So what if they picked the iPaq as the starting point for their new strategy? Your existing Jornadas will still work as well tomorrow as they do today. Only now, you have the most creative people on both teams developing the next generation. That could turn out to produce a better product than either one would have individually.

On the other hand, we have lost the competition between the two premier PPC manufacturers. That could potentially create complacency after the initial honeymoon of the merger is over. In the longer run, it's a good thing Toshiba and a few others seem to be coming forward with strong products because that's our only source of competative drive now.

[Daniel]

I agree with the general surprise, it certainly seems a little quick.

Of course most product lines will seem in conflict with this merger I think because all of the product groups would have been trying to look their best by producng excellent products & making sales. So basically HP is choping off what seems to be running well. I think though that the iPAQ brand is more widely known, but that's just from my experience.

Daniel

[jeffmckean]

Well, I dunno, in a retailer's mind, 6 months or so is actually not a bad life span for a technology product. It is kinda bad for a form factor life span, though. (Accessories get old.)

I'm certainly gonna lament the loss of the Jornada (unless they actually keep the form factor, but the problem is, I like BOTH form factors) as my 568 has become my main little friend, with my iPAQs close behind.

I'm surprised at how quick it will be. But my main concern is taking a PPC choice out of the market. I think the Toshiba e310 will be a huge volume leader as long as they can push enough out into the retail channel, so that will help, but it's a shame to see both PC lines continue (as if they weren't already almost the same) while one of the two highly-differentiated PPC lines is taken off the market. Weird.

[Will T Smith]

All the "appliance" devices under iPaq seem to be retained under this plan. The iPaq retention could be as simple as retaining the stronger "iPaq" brand name over the equivalent "Jornada".

Those who haven't looked over Compaq's offerings will see that iPaq applies not just to handhelds but to MP3 players, Wi-Fi Gateways, and thin-client workstations (no I/O).

Let's hope that the equipment will be picked judiciously and incorporated into the retained "iPaq" brand.

Off-Hand ....

I DO believe that there is room for BOTH form factors. Their product offering's could be split into the "all in one" concept (like current Jornada's) and a "thin-host" concept (like the iPaq).

The "thin-host" would be a much thinner iPaq (like the newly introduced Toshiba e310) that would serve as a host for various vertical market and multi-function sleeves. Great examples of this are the Symbol scanner/Wi-Fi, The Nexi-Cam, and the Gizmo.

I can think of other examples for wireless credit card scanners, full blown terminals, navigation units, etc... However, the device MUST get smaller, much smaller. In this form-factor the device would also serve as the compact form-factor, standalone device.

The everyday user, by contrast, just wants a traditional form factor WITH basic expansion AND a lid. That's the jornada iPaq.


If the Q-HP is stupid enough to kill the Jornada form-factor, I'm sure other vendors are poised to step up and "eat their lunch". ASUS comes to mind. Dell really stands out in my mind as they understand the needs of business and know damn well that the high-maintenance iPaq will NEVER cut it in IT fleets.

Here's hoping that the new Hewlett-Paq-ard isn't as stupid as it looks to be.

------------

PS, the silver lining is that Compaq will now stop pimping Lexmark. The worst printers in the business.

[hollis_f]

The everyday user, by contrast, just wants a traditional form factor WITH basic expansion AND a lid
I'm afraid the facts just don't support that. It may be what you want, but the everyday user must want a very slim, rounded machine with no extras built-in. Or, at least, that's what they think they want - because that's what they've been buying.

[bspline]

Strategically, the Ipaq form and sleeve design is way better than the Jornada's.

Average Joe probably won't use an expansion card for his PPC, he'll just use it to schedule meetings and find phone numbers.
Let's face it, we're the damn 10% (or 5%) that bothers companies to hell so they have to come out with brilliant (my opinion) ideas such as a PC Card sleeve. If you follow Ipaq's trail closely, you'll see that Compaq started pushing CF sleeves along with a product that didn't even stay on the shelves. yup, the sleeves were forced down Joe Consumer's throat.

Which gets me to my point, the Ipaq form factor pleases both worlds, might not be perfect for everyone, but speaking as a designer (graphic though), it's brilliant. Don't want the extra bulk, don't take the sleeve. Want all the fills and thrills ? They're here, for a small price (extra bulk).

In short, I'd really like to see integrated CF, SD, Jog-dial, bluetooth, redeye, yellowfever, or whatever they make up, in a small package as the Ipaq is, but companies (ie. marketing departments) won't listen to me, they'll listen to the 90% that says "Wow! It's Perfect!"

[Marc Zimmermann]

Strategically, the Ipaq form and sleeve design is way better than the Jornada's.

Actually, I think that it was better in comparison to the Jornada 540 series. But now, the Jornada 560 series improved on the sleeve concept by allowing for much the same flexibility with the battery compartment hooks but much less bulk.

[CUShane]

All of the Jornada fans out here seem to be forgetting the fact that Compaq has sold over 2 million iPAQs while the Jornada has only sold roughly 500,000. That's a big difference, and one that should not be overlooked.

[Perry Reed]

As an owner of a couple of 568's (as well as a couple of 548's, an old 420, and a really old 320; not to mention a 100LX and even an iPaq) I can only hope that when they say that they'll be taking the "best of the current... technology" that that may mean the Jornada form factor and the reliability.

One of my favorite things about my 568 is that I can use all my old 548 accessories. I'd hate to give that up.

I think if they could combine the best of both platforms (and I don't see why they couldn't), we'd really have a killer device.

I'd take the "flashier" features of the iPaq; Bluetooth, big screen, and the "sturdy" features of the Jornada; built like a tank, "standard" accessories, battery-sled approach.

And if we're really lucky, maybe somehow, with both engineering teams working hard on it, they could solve the dust issues once and for all.

[Ed Hansberry]

I can only hope that when they say that they'll be taking the "best of the current... technology" that that may mean the Jornada form factor and the reliability.
Given the language at the HP site and the image on the front page showing the iPAQ form factor, I think it is safe to say the Jornada form factor is dead by December.

[Charles Pickrell]

Well as a big fan of the Jornada and a previous iPaq owner, this just give me more reason to switch to a company such as Toshiba in the future.

[[Cruzer]]

hey have you guys noticed that they brought back the 3135.
http://athome.compaq.com/showroom/static/iPAQ/handheld_jumppage.asp

When did this happen??

RC

[Randall L. Lewis]

I've owned both an iPAQ and a Jornada. To me, the best of the Jornada is the built in cover and the removable battery. Give me those options on whatever you call the new models and I'll be happy.

But for Will T Smith, chill a bit.

There are very good reasons for HP to keep both the Presario and Pavillion lines of consumer PC's. It has to do with shelf space in the retail sector. Visit your typical CompUSA or Circuit City and note that the majority of shelf space is devoted to these brands now. And the two lines sell in nearly equal numbers. Eliminate one or the other entirely, and you open the market for someone else- Sony, eMachines or others to make a move on that very valuable commodity of shelf space. I think you will see some differentiation between the two lines of products in technology and style, but contrary to your opinion, this is actually a very smart move by HP.

The same rule wouldn't apply with other consumer products like the Pocket PC because the shelf space isn't so significant. And in printers, which command lots of shelf space, Compaq really wasn't a player, selling only a few rebranded models from other manufacturers.

[Terry]

All of the Jornada fans out here seem to be forgetting the fact that Compaq has sold over 2 million iPAQs while the Jornada has only sold roughly 500,000. That's a big difference, and one that should not be overlooked.

This is Carly's Way...look at the sales, look at the margins, when choosing between two, pick the one with the higher sales and/or higher margins. In the consumer area it would be very easy for HP to sell two different cases (OEM price probably about $20) with the same insides...most consumers won't care. This isn't as easy in the other lines (we know the difference).

We should have seen it coming, but HP has done a great job hiding the plan prior to announcement. I won't be surprised to find out that the 47x Jornada series is just disinformation and isn't really planned for release at all.

[adamz]

I've owned both an iPAQ and a Jornada. To me, the best of the Jornada is the built in cover and the removable battery. Give me those options on whatever you call the new models and I'll be happy.


You can get one of the Expansion packs of the "Plus" variety. They offer added expansion slots (CF or PCMCIA), a screen cover, and removable batteries.

I don't see what all the fuss over losing the jornada is. When the iPAQ was first released it was obviously the strongest choice. The jornada was slower and bulky. And now-a-days, the iPAQ still has the MOST expansion options. How many 3rd party developers are creating expansion packs for the iPAQ now?
The Jornada's new expansion concept seems to be too little too late. Granted there are flaws to the iPAQ expansion sleeves.. no buttons on the sides, potential scratching, etc... but it has become so wildly popular and so many have invested in this technology, that it would be quite expensive for both users and developers to switch to something different.. or worse.. support multiple varying expansion technologies.

I think HPQ is correct in keeping the form factor of the current iPAQ Pocket PCs. They will be retaining both the millions of customers who have invested in the iPAQ and it's expansion packs, as well as the numerous developers creating expansion pack hardware for the iPAQ devices.

iPAQ's are obviously the most popular Pocket PCs. You see them in movies, TV shows, commercials, everywhere.. It would be a big mistake to throw away that identity.

I don't even see how the Jornada is better than the iPAQ anyway. Same screen, same processor, same memory, same operating system… just a different shape, no embedded bluetooth, and not half as many expansion options.

[Kevin Daly]

I use both a Jornada 568 (I also have an old 545) and an iPaq 3870 (from work)...I think the claimed slimness and so on of the iPaq is much overstated, because how many people use the thing without at least its cover? (OK, probably everyone who wants to stuff it in their shirt pocket but you see my point).
The decision was inevitable I think based on sales, and the fact that companies generally (but not always) don't like to compete with themselves. The iPaq has much, much more visibility in the market.
I hope the removable battery technology is transferred to the iPaq. I personally think sleds are a real pain but they can't be done away with without causing a lot of annoyance to a lot of iPaq faithful and accessory manufacturers.So unfortunately they'll stay.
If the iPaq screen technology could be changed to incorporate the Jornada's superior handling of ClearType without compromising it in other ways, that would be nice.
And if there's any way of squeezing a CF I slot onto an iPAQ without using a sled I'd be much happier.

[Jason Dunn]

I don't even see how the Jornada is better than the iPAQ anyway. Same screen, same processor, same memory, same operating system… just a different shape, no embedded bluetooth, and not half as many expansion options.


For my needs, the Jornada wins over the 3870 in several ways:

1) Built-in screen cover
2) CF card slot (512 meg CF card)
3) Excellent battery life

And that's really it - if the 3rd generation iPAQ can deliver all of those things, I'm sold on it. But the current 3870 can't, which is why I don't use it.

[55Kevy]

I am a lurker on this forum and a frequent visitor to PPCThoughts. I am also a J548 user, since July 2000. I selected the PPC platform based on what I perceived to be better integration between the handheld device and my desktop, especially Outlook, as I was planning to use it on my frequent business trips for email. I selected HP based on my prior experience with HP products and it's 'form factor' (actually because it looked more professional than the IPAQ). It's utility has grown immensely and I now use it to take notes, write memos, do a little spreadsheeting, and read a lot of books. In no way am I a power user.

I could never justify the purchase of a J568. My trusty and reliable 548 was (is) still performing perfectly adequately, I had not seen an application that could increase my productivity that would not run on it, and so did not jump on the PPC2K2 bandwagon. Granted, it would be nice to have a brighter screen, a faster processor, and swoopier graphics, but, hey, this is a tool, not a date.

The demise of the Jornada is sad, but I fully understand the logic behind it. I just hope that when the time comes for me to replace (1 yr? 2yr?) my trusted tool that the then-current generation of devices offers one that has all the features I've come to enjoy (integrated CF slot, cover, rocker switch) and all the speed, memory, color, crispness, etc of the new. It will be a pain to have to replace my Stowaway, Power Pack, Socket CF Phone card (maybe not? if the new PPC has a CF slot and same drivers?), and Voyager CF Card (ditto?).

I confess to be surprised at the number of posters who have multiple PPC's. I am considered an 'early adopter' in my company (a Fortune 100 energy firm) but could never justify the expense of multiple devices. I've invested a few $100's, between the device, accessories, and software. But the cost has always been justified by the productivity improvement, especially on the road. I can only use 1 device at a time, however.

Just my thoughts. Jornada RIP.

Kevin

[Jason Lee]

My first deveice was one of those old compaq handheld pc companions running win CE 1.0. Then I made the upgrade to the Jornada 430se.
When the 545 came out I couldn't justify the upgrade because it was the exact same hardware inside. Just a new form factor and new os. Plus I would lose the ability to use my xircom cf type 2 ethernet card. But I really wanted one. Then the Ipaq came out. That was a good enough excuse to upgrade, faster processor, cf II and pcmcia. It was everything I needed, even though I didn't like compaq at the time. (bad pc experiance) When the 3800 Ipaqs came out I did not intend to upgrade until I got the chance to sell my old ipaq at a great price... I liked the look and accessories of the new jornada 568. I wanted it more than the Ipaq... but then I would have to sell all of my ipaq sleves and accesories. So I got the new ipaq. But I was under the impression that compaq itself had not planned to keep the sleve form factor after the 3800. I am going to have to face it... We are all going to have to face it. No company is going to keep the same form factor for long. It gets old... people have see that before. Unfortunatly no company can keep the same port on the bottom of their device either. So every few years we are all going to have to throw away all of our keyboards, cables, batteries, everything... and upgrade. It really sucks but you know.

I don't think anything bad can come of this merger of the ipaq and the jornada. So maybe now of the ipaq people or the jornada people's accessories will work. It happens. But maybe some really cool new deveice will. One that we can go out and buy $100's worth of stuff for just so we can throw it away with the next device we get.

There really needs to be something done about that. Every time you go out and buy a new desktop pc you don't have to throw away your mouse, keyboard, monitor, speakers, and printer.

*sigh* ok time to stop rambleing.... getting dizzy.. :)

[atsouch]

I personally think that HP will keep all current products. It's not bad to name everything "IPAQ" since this name is better known to the consumer market.

It will be much easier for HP to sell devices with the 568's or 928's features under the Ipaq brand name. A few hundreds of thousands know about the quality and usability of a Jornada but two million people have already bought an Ipaq.

HP's announcement is very vague and says nothing about droping specific products. Just keeping the Ipaq name for the entire category of handhelds.

Charles, I think that you can wait for the next HP device instead of a Toshiba one. In my opinion, Jornada 928 or Ipaq 928, as it will be probably called from now on, is the killer PPC.

[Will T Smith]

I've owned both an iPAQ and a Jornada. To me, the best of the Jornada is the built in cover and the removable battery. Give me those options on whatever you call the new models and I'll be happy.

But for Will T Smith, chill a bit.

There are very good reasons for HP to keep both the Presario and Pavillion lines of consumer PC's. It has to do with shelf space in the retail sector. Visit your typical CompUSA or Circuit City and note that the majority of shelf space is devoted to these brands now. And the two lines sell in nearly equal numbers. Eliminate one or the other entirely, and you open the market for someone else- Sony, eMachines or others to make a move on that very valuable commodity of shelf space. I think you will see some differentiation between the two lines of products in technology and style, but contrary to your opinion, this is actually a very smart move by HP.

The same rule wouldn't apply with other consumer products like the Pocket PC because the shelf space isn't so significant. And in printers, which command lots of shelf space, Compaq really wasn't a player, selling only a few rebranded models from other manufacturers.

Computers are not books which must have huge binders to serve as their self-contained "advertisements". Proliferation of models only causes inventory problems and consumer confusion. For the primary example, look at the "old Apple" which had boochoo product offerings but very little mindshare.

Perhaps we can consult King PC and see how relevant shelf space is.


&lt;simulated interviews>
--------------
Q: Mr. Michael Dell. How relevant is shelf space to selling PCs.

A: It isn't, duhhhh. PC's are a low margin business. Cutting redundant/unnecessary costs while maintaining high value, quality and service is the key to success. Shelves cost money and provide no value to your customer.
---------------

Or how about Apple's savior, Steve Jobs.

Q: Mr Jobs, how did 20 different Mac models combined with multiple gadgets, devices and gizmos help Apple.

A: It didn't. They had NO focus and huge inventory problems. Shelf space is really driven by customer demand, not supply. We had so many models that customers were confused and ultimately we had NO shelf-space.
The key was consolidating or product lines which streamlined production, eliminated major inventory problems AND ultimately INCREASED mindshare. Pulling out of some retail locations actually INCREASED brand recognition by limiting our exposure to retailers who were educated.

--------------------------

Computer sales haven't quite devolved into supermarket style soda displays. A single, excellent product stands out much better than an entire row of crap. Proliferation of models is a hinderance to PC sales on both the supply AND demand side.

The idea that one can command market share simply by filling the available number of slots only applies in products that are otherwise indistinguishable. PCs are not, avenue's for dinstinctness exist on MANY, MANY levels. For example, look at the Sony Vaio line which next to Apple, has provided the most in terms of designing solutions for people instead of beige boxes.

PCs are NOT all identical. One need only look at Apple and the trend it has produced to see that form factor, design and style ARE important. Having one stellar product next to rows of crap is really much better than having your rows of crap up against a real winner.

Hewlett-Paq-Ard is opting to push the rows of crap. It will cost them big $$$. It flies in the face of their reasoning for merger. They are throwing away lots of profitable business and retaining the money pit. Good thinking Carly.

[Ed Hansberry]

PCs are NOT all identical. One need only look at Apple and the trend it has produced to see that form factor, design and style ARE important. Having one stellar product next to rows of crap is really much better than having your rows of crap up against a real winner.

Apple cannot break 6% market share while Dell is cleaning everyone's clock with boring beige (now black) boxes. How do you determine that anything a 6% player does is important?

[Randall L. Lewis]

Gee, Will T Smith, you try to refute my argument about the value of shelf space in retail by quoting Mike Dell?

Of course Dell thinks shelf space is irrelevant. His highly successful business model doesn't need the retail channel. And Steve Jobs? Give me a break, of course he wants shelf space. He can't get it because there is a limited market for his product. Why do you think Apple opened its own retail stores? The quote you use does not disprove my point, and Steve is only partially correct. Shelf space is a factor of BOTH demand (which is Steve's problem) and supply. Why otherwise would food producers fight so vigorously for the preferred shelf space in grocery stores?

It seems you are letting your feelings about HP's CEO or the merger or something else cause you to be critical of all of their decisions. I have not commented on the merger or Carly or anything other than the fact that it is a smart move- not a dumb one- to keep the two PC lines in the new HP. And among the good reasons to do this is keeping their claim to all that shelf space.

Most computer buyers are not as savvy as you are. They want a PC and they go to a store to buy one. What they see on the shelves is one of the factors (and a big one) in helping make the purchase decision. If I am the head of the new HP, I want as much as possible of what those consumers see to be products from my company.

[fishd1]

If I am the head of the new HP, I want as much as possible of what those consumers see to be products from my company.
This is correct... in this respect the PC industry is very similar to the auto industry (apologies to Americans in advance, I'm European and have NO IDEA about the US car market... you made the Prowler and the Viper which are good, everything else ... who cares... :twisted: :D ), everyones product is basically the same with a few distinguishing features. Look at the fantastic choice of Ford, Mazda, Volvo, Jaguar, Aston Martin, Lincoln, Mercury.... oh wait... they're the same company... erm, how about Volkswagon, Audi... erm Seat... no, hang on... General Motors, Chrysler, Vauxhall / Opel, Buick, Cadillac, Saab... erm...

I would have thought that perhaps one of the companies would be focused towards the home market, lets say HP, and the other at the enterprise market, Compaq. That way Compaq could tell their enterprise customers "We're better than IBM etc, we don't get involved in namby-pampy home computers, we specialise in hard working computers"... whereas HP could say "No boring beige identical boxes for us, we want to bring you a personalised computer for your home." Of course, they'd all be the same technology underneath but it gives the impression of choice.

[Randall L. Lewis]

For further information on my defense of the HP decision to keep both the HP and Compaq consumer PC lines, refer to this piece in today's San Jose Mercury News

http://www.siliconvalley.com/mld/siliconvalley