Welcome Fujitsu LOOX

[Andy Sjostrom]

<a href="http://pr.fujitsu.com/en/news/2002/03/12.html">http://pr.fujitsu.com/en/news/2002/03/12.html</a><br /><br />Just back from the Microsoft Mobius conference. I see that Sam has done a remarkable job in keeping the site updated! Very well done!<br /><br />There's a lot to write about from the conference. I am putting together a couple of THOUGHTS that I will post in the next few days. But let me summarize the answer to what I feel the key question is, going to a Microsoft mobility conference in Europe.<br />Question: Is Microsoft continuing to drive innovation?<br />Answer: Absolutely!<br />More on this shortly!<br /><br />I've spent a little while looking at the Fujitsu LOOX articles on the Internet. I know this is not exactly hot "news", but hey! This is PocketPCThoughts, not nescessarily PocketPCFastestNews! :-)<br /><br />The specs of this new Pocket PC is impressive. First and foremost; the Intel Xscale 400 MHz processor, integrated GPRS and dual expansion slots. Hot!<br /><br />Compare the phase we are in today, in the mobile device market, with the equivalent phase in the history of PCs. Moving from 206 MHz to 400 Mhz will matter a lot, given the rich experience and features we are used to and given the fact that we want even more. Wireless wide area connectivity continues to be a critical aspect of device capabilities, and packet-based communication (such as GPRS) enables all the key scenarios imaginable. The expandability of a device has always been very important. Industry standards such as CompactFlash (CF) and Secure Digital (SD) is really the foundation of a well functioning ascessories market. Pocket PCs have from the beginning set a high expandability standard, that most other platforms still struggle to match. <br /><br />So, welcome Fujitsu!<br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/loox_andy.jpg" />

[Pony99CA]

The specs of this new Pocket PC is impressive. First and foremost; the Intel Xscale 400 MHz processor, integrated GPRS and dual expansion slots. Hot!


Hmmm, I thought the Loox had integrated Bluetooth, and GPRS was an add-on card or sleeve. When you buy a Loox do you get GPRS with it, or is it an option?

OK, I just checked the press release link you gave:


In Europe, for example, Fujitsu Siemens Computers will offer the Pocket LOOX with a mobile telephony function through an added GPRS* plug-on module.

In Japan, Fujitsu will equip Pocket LOOX with an integrated Bluetooth module for wireless communication. In addition to strengthening network functionality, Bluetooth technology enhances expandability, convenience and flexibility of system design for advanced mobile solutions.


That sounds like GPRS may not be truly integrated, but Bluetooth may be.

Steve

[Jason Lee]

So where are the CDMA200 or WCDMA Pocket PCs?? I would love to have a phone/ppc but I would also like it to roam to analog if nessasary. I just switched from nextel to sprint for that exact reason. So far the GMS coverage is not good at all, to say nothing of GPRS... Oh well, guess that is what i get for being born in Missouri. :)

[EyePAQ]

http://www.fpc.fujitsu.com/www/news.shtml?aboutus/pressreleases/pr_031302

[entropy1980]

When is this coming out stateside? Looks sweet!

[entropy1980]

Nevermind looks like we posted at the same time! Wow a little steeper than i thought, from what i understood it was supposed to be somewhat cheaper than the new Ipaq's but I guess they changed their mind! :wink:

[Aceze]

It's odd that they decided to call this the Pocket Loox, but renamed the Fujitsu Loox (laptop) to the P-series in North America...?

However, it looks like they upgraded the initial specs of a 300mhz Xscale to 400mhz. Everything else seems to have stayed the same. I've always had the impression that Bluetooth would be integrated, and that GPRS would be an addon (as far as all the older documents for the Japanese PLoox have seemed to indicate) - it's fairly clear that Fujitsu is targetting the highest end here, so I'm not surprised if the price is high end.

I like how they're pushing battery time with this unit (just as they're pushing battery time for the ultralight P-series or Loox laptop). Hopefully Microsoft can upgrade the PPC OS to the point where it wouldnt be a shame to put it into the Fujitsu (like the Sony PEG-NR70 is saddled with the PalmOS).

I'm waiting for the innovation Microsoft, and I havent seen much of it for the past 3 years!

Aceze

[Scott R]

Kinda off topic, but...

I know that MS forced standardization on several things with PPC 2002. I'm wondering, is the center position of the directional pad one of those things? Am I the only one that dislikes it? IMO, Casio's old implementation on the left side was better. Yes, it makes it difficult or impossible for left-handed users, but if the reasoning behind putting it in the center is because of that, they aren't being consistent given that the the scroll wheels are all on the left side only.

Let's face it, the biggest purpose of this pad is for games. Given that, even a left position is flawed simply because there needs to be more "dead space" below the pad to allow you to hold the device comfortably (think old GameBoy). IMO, the ideal setup for gaming is to use the current center position but design the device such that you would hold it in landscape orientation for gaming. That means two changes:
1) Games need to be designed for landscape mode.
2) Devices need to be designed to be "played" this way. This means adding buttons on the top of the device (above the screen), where your thumb can comfortably tap them. Ideally, I'd make it such that there were four buttons (two towards the top left, two towards the top right) such that you could invert the screen and use the device with the joypad on the left or right, ideal for left or right-handers (think Atari Lynx).

When not playing games, these four buttons would be the four application buttons (so, the bottom of the device would only have the joypad, no buttons at all).

Right now, developers are really making some impressive games for the PPC, but the stock hardware makes for a poor experience. To get the most out of them, you have to add one of these external or snap-on game pads.

Scott

[alex_kac]

Pricewise it is cheaper than the iPaq 3870 - that's the price point they are talking about. Its got integrated Bluetooth - so comparing the price to a 3760 or 3850 is unfair.

[entropy1980]

Depends on where you shop, but they made it sound like it was going to shatter prices but looks pretty similar in price to everything else, don; get me wrong 599 for integrated BT is nice but they should have given 2 options one with and one without so they could have a 599 and 499 or cheaper model, none the less it still sits in the price range of other PPC's which is decent.

[Frank2]

Pricewise it is cheaper than the iPaq 3870 - that's the price point they are talking about. Its got integrated Bluetooth - so comparing the price to a 3760 or 3850 is unfair.


The Loox will be available in the second quarter 2002 in Germany for 699,- Euro. Great Price!

[st63z]

So, will the US LOOX model have integrated BT *and* an empty "proprietary expansion slot" that can take plug-in modules such as GPRS or an extra battery (not counting the CF/SD slots)? Also, where does it say that the US model will use the 400MHz CPU for sure?

All in all, very good functionality/expandability for the size/weight/price :) I guess the LOOX won't need any sleeve-type expansion, then?

So are the Toshiba and Fujitsu the best XScale PPCs that have been announced to date (both of which are coming in Q2)?

EDIT: Here's hoping these companies release many expansion modules to choose from (GPRS/CDMA2000/Ricochet/CDPD/802.11a/b/battery/etc), that would be great...

Also, since XScale 400MHz should be fast enough for decent voice recognition, please let's have higher-quality built-in microphone.

[Frank2]

So, will the US LOOX model have integrated BT *and* an empty "proprietary expansion slot" that can take plug-in modules such as GPRS or an extra battery (not counting the CF/SD slots)?

Take a look at this http://www.fujitsu-siemens.de/rl/produkte/handhelds/download/db_loox_0302.pdf
(in german)


You can use an extra battery OR a GPRS-Modul (not both at the same time!) Yes, BT is integrated.

And there will be a foldable Keyboard available.

[Robotbeat]

Well, here's the next best thing to holding a mock-up Pocket LOOX in your hand:
http://www.fmworld.net/product/3dcatalog/pda/index.html

I wonder why this link was only on the Japanese website...

st63z, I also want a better microphone. Besides that, I even more want a stereo audio-in port! There's no real reason (except form-factor, maybe) that this couldn't be done with the iPAQ. Heck, it is possible to get out your soldering iron and modify your iPAQ to have an audio input. The audio-in hardware is already stereo (it says in the StrongARM specs), but the microphone feeds both inputs. That's why there is a stereo recording option. Anyways, this has bugged me for a couple of years, now.

Aceze, Microsoft has little or no control over that battery life issue. When you use a bright and vibrant display and a 206 MHz processor with 32+MB of 102 MHz SDRam, not to mention the audio hardware, you have a lot of different things that eat up your battery. Well, Microsoft does give you a minimum battery life standard so that PPCs don't have really bad battery life, but manufacturers of course exceed the minimum. Have you ever seen a third-party battery life review of the Sony PEG-NR70? I doubt that with a 50% larger screen and twice the cpu speed that it will have just as good battery life as current Palms.

[Will T Smith]

Let's face it, the biggest purpose of this pad is for games.


Well,

I suppose if you wanted to play a lot of games you could buy a Gameboy Advance instead. But of course it's Contact and Scheduling functions are pretty weak.

I suppose the 4-way hats on phones are there just to play "snake", right.

The truth is that the 4-way hat is extremely useful for navigating menus and text. It's a handheld version of the T-arrow set on your keyboard.

A device cannot be ALL things to ALL people. Perhaps you should wait for "Pocket X-Box". That's sure to appease your need for a game machine with PIM functionality. :-)

[jlp]

You can use an extra battery OR a GPRS-Modul (not both at the same time!) Yes, BT is integrated.

And there will be a foldable Keyboard available.


I heard that the GPRS sled is large because it integrates an aditional battery.

Great that a keyboard will be available.

Also I've heard that the GPRS sled might only come later on. Hope the Audiovox Triband GPRS CF card will come sooner.

[Scott R]

Well,

I suppose if you wanted to play a lot of games you could buy a Gameboy Advance instead. But of course it's Contact and Scheduling functions are pretty weak.

I suppose the 4-way hats on phones are there just to play "snake", right.

The truth is that the 4-way hat is extremely useful for navigating menus and text. It's a handheld version of the T-arrow set on your keyboard.

A device cannot be ALL things to ALL people. Perhaps you should wait for "Pocket X-Box". That's sure to appease your need for a game machine with PIM functionality. :-)

I believe you confused my comments in more ways than one. First, I was not saying that the purpose of a PPC was for games, just that the 4-way pad was (a point you also disagreed with, but I'll get to that in a second). Second, I'm actually not all that interested in playing games, though I might be more interested if the game playing controls were better. Nevertheless, about the only time I ever think to pull out my PDA for games is when I'm in a long car ride. And since I'm usually the one driving, my wife is the one who gets to play.

Back to the issue at hand...You use the directional pad for navigating menus? I can see using it for navigating through an ebook on an iPaq but, again, you don't really need the left/right positioning for that, just up and down. And for non-iPaqqers, the side scroll wheel works better for this purpose. I'm interested in hearing from others: What, besides games, do you use the left/right positioning of the directional pad for?

Scott

[JohnnyFlash]

package based communication (such as GPRS)


packet, not package.

[Aceze]

...
Aceze, Microsoft has little or no control over that battery life issue. When you use a bright and vibrant display and a 206 MHz processor with 32+MB of 102 MHz SDRam, not to mention the audio hardware, you have a lot of different things that eat up your battery. Well, Microsoft does give you a minimum battery life standard so that PPCs don't have really bad battery life, but manufacturers of course exceed the minimum. Have you ever seen a third-party battery life review of the Sony PEG-NR70? I doubt that with a 50% larger screen and twice the cpu speed that it will have just as good battery life as current Palms.


Oh, you misunderstand me - I'm actually very happy that Fujitsu is targetting battery life as an issue (15hr instead of the usual 8-10hrs) - which goes hand in hand with their strategy of marketing the Laptop Loox (P-series) which also has a long battery time. FWIW, I dont think there is any review about the PEG-NR70, but I see far more innovation on the Palm side (really, because of SONY) than currently on the PPC side.

I was just bitching that the current PPC2002 OS _really_ needs some massive overhauling in order to be _worth_ putting into this great hardware (like builtin applications without braindead limitations - limitations that have nothing to do with the hardware).

Aceze

[Aceze]

...
I suppose if you wanted to play a lot of games you could buy a Gameboy Advance instead. But of course it's Contact and Scheduling functions are pretty weak.

I suppose the 4-way hats on phones are there just to play "snake", right.

The truth is that the 4-way hat is extremely useful for navigating menus and text. It's a handheld version of the T-arrow set on your keyboard.


If you want to argue that the PocketPC should only be used for PIM or data entry, why even bother with the PocketPC? You should have bought a Palm (or an electronic organizer). The whole point of the Pocketpc is for the flexibility and power to do anything (or close to anything) a regular computer can do... including playing games.

And I agree with Scott, what do you need the left-right arrows for on a screen the size of a pocketpc (320x200)? How succesful was the older Jornada's with no directional pad? That pad is mainly for games. Games are a valid reason for getting the pocketpc (but should NOT be the only one).

Aceze