Gaming on the Smartphone 2002

[marlof]

Since we're talking Smartphone 2002 today, one of the things I know I'll like better in a smartphone than in my old voice-only phone, is the ability to add software. Gaming could be one of the areas that will be big. Nokia knows this too. In my country they make the gaming options on the Communicator very clear to prospective buyers. <br /><br />I talked with Larry Bank, the guy who ported Pac-Man to the Pocket PC. Around the Pocket PC launch Pac-Man was in the Funpack that many new Pocket PC users in the US could get for free. It was a nice showcase for the gaming possibilities of the Pocket PC. Now Larry is thinking about the possibility to put games like Pac-Man on the Smartphone 2002.<br /><br />I'm curious what you think about that, so let's do a little poll on the subject: "Would you like games like Pac-Man on your Smartphone 2002?" If you vote yes, could you also post what game you would like to see?

[tonyv]

There is no question that the most used program on my PocketPC is Pocket Slay, followed distantly by Freecell. I've also found that it's great to keep a few simple games on my iPAQ to amuse my 2 1/2 year old. She likes Oliver's Action Pack and PocketPop.

[rfischer]

I am addicted to Mille Bornes, PocketPop, Backgammon on my E-115. I would love to be able to install these on a SmartPhone. This is of course in the hopes that one will be released in the US! :D

[JonnoB]

I think this is an excellent opportunity for their to be some great network based games by already having internet and direct-connect connectivity in the device. I think people will underestimate the value of online gaming on a portable device. Someone on the way home from work, waiting in line for some event, whatever....

Phone companies will love it and offer it free as they will get to sell more minutes and/or transfer MBs.

-Jonathan

[entropy1980]

How about checkers/chess network style, turn based games would be great on the smartphone.

[pocketfuncouk]

Yep, the subject line says it all.

PocketFun.co.uk

[Master O'Mayhem]

I would love TS client on it.. that would rock!!!

[marlof]

TS Client? What kind of game is that? ;)

[JohnnyFlash]

Since we're talking Smartphone 2002 today: one of the things I know I will like better in a smartphone than in my old voice only phone, is the ability to add software. Gaming could be one of the area's that will be big.

Plastic fantastic, do you know girls, boys that most spread way of playing games on mobile phones will be Java? See http://midlet.org !!!

Do you know that first phone with Microsoft's Smartphone 2002 : Sendo Z100 - will also hava Java J2ME/MIDP because operators FORCED VIOLENTLY this vendor to include it, not because Small-Soft wanted it!!!

And Java games will be running not only on some bloody expensive smartphones but also on very cheap phones of price around 100 bucks. When? Already this summer. Why so late? No problem, already iDEN phones in USA, Siemens and Motorola offer some models with Java but now it willl be hundreds of millions of them.

So to fullfill purpose "to play games on mobile phone" one does not need any smartphone OS, neither Microsoft's nor Symbian nor Palm. Java will do it...

So, gaming here it comes, but maybe not so as you expect it,...

By the way: where the heck can I download SDK for MS Smartphone 2002????? Everybody pretends to have it but nobody can point to place where it is...

...................................... plastic fanstastic!!!

[entropy1980]

Yeah but they'd have to be written in Java at some point....they won't be direct ports of existing games, it's much quicker to port using the SDK with tools programmers are familiar with(C visual Basic) and the added use of API's for hooks than to use your friend Java, Java is neat but it isn't everything sure when it's all you got for programming it's nice and portable but why limit yourself to ONLY Java, i'd rather have it as an add-on with your motorola and such you have no choice and that's all you can program in... talk about boring!

[JohnnyFlash]

i'd rather have it as an add-on with your motorola and such you have no choice and that's all you can program in... talk about boring!


no, nothing boring. not only motorola but many other vendors. nokia alone is commited to put java to 50 millions of phones this year only. and since this year more and more phones will start having color displays so to play mobile games one does not need to have smartphone or pda.

absobloodolutely not boring!!! indeede!

don't you get: number of mobile phones being sold worldwide is many times more than number of PDAs... and since phones are already "connected" both through wireless carier network and also some by Bluetooth, then multiplayer gaming is a breeze..

I have nothing against PDAs, I own iPAQ, but sometimes small nice neat mobile phone is just better for some things like MP3 playing, phone calling, internet connecting, mobile playing....

only Java and BREW make it possible. See my web site below to get some overview what I am talking about. I am still waiting for SDK for smartphone from picosoft, sorry, nanosoft, sorry, microsoft...

[entropy1980]

I get what your saying do you get what I am saying? Big deal if Java is on a billion phones if the phones have no power to do anything with it, what the MS smartphone brings to the table is the ability to be connected not only to people but to all my information all of the time from financial to contacts all in one seemless package.If i have Java in addition that's great,however try getting activesync to run on your nokia, you can't how about msn messenger, how about seemless integration with existing proucts you own and run, JPZR i bet you use windows (95% of the world does) wouldn't like your phone to be able to utilize the power of your desktop or the ubiquity of them being around? Face it if your looking for integration you need more than Java, Java is nice tool but it doesn't supply everything a end-user wants desires and needs, and you still would have to portstuff to Java that is already written in C or visual basic why not be able to utilize both?

[JohnnyFlash]

Face it if your looking for integration you need more than Java, Java is nice tool but it doesn't supply everything a end-user wants desires and needs, and you still would have to portstuff to Java that is already written in C or visual basic why not be able to utilize both?


I agree with you entropy1980. This is strong point of picosoft that they have everything in 1 hand. Thus integration of let's say, gaming on XBox and gaming on mobile phones and syncing to WindowsXP they could do in seemles way and they have .net and it whole set of web services. So indeedee, plastic fantastic, you are right, java alone cannot beat it.

anyway, isn't it kind of appealing, that you write, shmidlet in java and it runs on 1 billion phones? picoshoft, i.e. micro-scoft, wants to have 100 million of phones with their shmartphone by 2006 but by this time there will be 1 billion of phones with java. so with integration or without this is also appealing.

pity that we cannot have everything in 1: sendo z100 with shmartphone will have java but other microshoft babies will not. microsheet could put j2me/midp (small java) on his phones and also C# and .net and it would kick a*s out of any compeition but not, they hate java. why, oh why, cannot be peace and cooperation.

and what is with mobile Linux, this Sharp is sharp, isn't it? Qtopia is cool... Java shmava, who care, but where the heck is SDK for shmartphone from microscott ? hm, big secret heh?

jpzr going to cebit with camera to make some shots of phones with mobile execution environments so we will see to what extent this big mouths are really ready to the market.... time to market! plastic fantastic, this is holy sheet, most important issue. how fast time to market is with C# or VB.net in comparison to Java?

anybody?

[entropy1980]

execution my friend is key and no players aside from maybe nokia have it so Java isn't as big a deal as it sounds plus all the phones (1 billion) will have different specs and be able to run things differently so you don't have the exact uniformity you speak of, right now the ubiquity of Java is a as much of a pipe dream if not more so than .Net

[JohnnyFlash]

execution my friend is key and no players aside from maybe nokia have it so Java isn't as big a deal as it sounds plus all the phones (1 billion) will have different specs and be able to run things differently so you don't have the exact uniformity you speak of, right now the ubiquity of Java is a as much of a pipe dream if not more so than .Net


Why doesn't anyone listen to me? There is J2ME/MIDP standard and thus all the phones will be able to run some common denominator of functionality without problems, this java baby has a few surpises left in her sweethear.

You must unlearn what you have learned: cell phone business is unlike any other microvadersoft empires.

You can call me a mindless philosopher, but I have a feeling that The force is with you, young shmartphone OS from microvadersoft, but you are not on market yet! For now shmartphone is a malfunctioning little twerp because I ain't seen any SDK yet!!! Try not. Do. Or do not. There is no try. And when I can do soft for shmartphone if there is no SDK yet? In 2006?

[entropy1980]

I doesn't matter if it executes the same i am talking the hardware power, it's like running XP on a Pentium 1 and then on a Pentium 4 your going to have the same problem with your Java pipedream, at least with the smartphone there is some level of standard so if you write something expecting a certain level of horsepower you will have it, Java on multi-platform phones is a mixed bag you never know what your going to get, is it black and white? does it have a control pad, does it have external speakers with a sound chip, does it have an ample processor to handle running.... you won't know at least with the smartphone you have a standard by which all smartphones will run a bare minimum, java you get who knows?

[JohnnyFlash]

I doesn't matter if it executes the same i am talking the hardware power, it's like running XP on a Pentium 1 and then on a Pentium 4 your going to have the same problem with your Java pipedream

Whoa. All I can tell you is that Java midlet can sense the environment and adapt to it appropriately, it is like games for PC that are showing more or less details accordingly to underlying hardware.

Welcome to the real world: microshoft way where it is enforcing some "standard" is not realistic because business is business and sometimes earning money is more important than maintaining processing power standards.

Look, entropy1980. Right now there's one rule: be profitable or die.

You cannot change people to adapt to microshofts ideas of shmarphones - that is impossible. Instead try to understand the truth. What truth? There is no place for any monopoly in mobile phones industry.

Do you hear that, Mr. entropy1980? That is the sound of inevitability. 1 billion of phones with Java when microshoft will have less than 50 milions with its shmarphone...


And to microshoft I can only say, as far as their shmartphone SDK is concerned: stop trying to hit me and hit me! Without seeing it I cannot say nothing more. I see only propaganda. Microshoft has you, entropy1980. And I am still open to all possibilities, I don't say no, maybe I will enter matrix, i.e. microshoft, but first let me see SDK so that I could compare...

[marlof]

Smartphone 2002 SDK is out in beta. See http://www.microsoft.com/mobile/developer/default.asp : "The Smartphone 2002 SDK is still in Beta phase, and is available only to members of the Microsoft Mobile Solutions Partner Program (MSPP). To get access to the Beta SDK, you must first sign up to the MSPP."

[JohnnyFlash]

Smartphone 2002 SDK is out in beta. See http://www.microsoft.com/mobile/developer/default.asp : "The Smartphone 2002 SDK is still in Beta phase, and is available only to members of the Microsoft Mobile Solutions Partner Program (MSPP). To get access to the Beta SDK, you must first sign up to the MSPP."


Bullsh*t. I was trying to join MSPP but they rejected me, one needs to be servile slave of Microshoft to become MSPP. Shortly speaking it is NOT AVAILABLE.

If somebody can put it on some other server I would be more than glad to download it and to evaluate it and compare with Java...

[marlof]

This is not bullsh*t, it *is* available, but only to a selected group. You asked where it was, I pointed you in the direction. The fact that it's not available for *you* does not mean it does not exist, or others can not create software with it for the Smartphone 2002 platform. I don't think your description "one needs to be servile slave of Microshoft to become MSPP" is in the guidelines of becoming MSPP. I don't know what went wrong with your application, but don't oversimplify things please.

What you ask to put the SDK on a server to let you play with it is not right either. I wouldn't advise anyone to do this. It is a closed not public beta release, and redistributing that kind of software is simply not legal. And yes, I'm a servile slave of the law, so I do mind. I guess what you need to do is wait until the final release of the SDK is published, or the beta goes public. Knowing MS Mobile Devices policy on the SDK, it will probably be available for a public download.

[JohnnyFlash]

This is not bullsh*t, it *is* available, but only to a selected group.

I have sent my application again. And please note: MANY SDKs for Java, some of them also in beta, are available both without any password or just with simple registration, without the need to answer 1000 questions about your servility to microsoft...

[marlof]

Microsoft is not that differnet: find you free SDKs (once out of closed beta) at http://www.microsoft.com/mobile/developer/downloads/default.asp . Usually a regular download....

[JohnnyFlash]

Microsoft is not that differnet: find you free SDKs (once out of closed beta) at http://www.microsoft.com/mobile/developer/downloads/default.asp . Usually a regular download....


8) take it easy Marlof. I will try whenever I will be able to try it. For now I cannot say much more because I have to try it MYSELF. I will and I will put my opinions on my site (see below).

In a moment if you want to enjoy yourself with story about smartphone wars, just read this: http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/24190.html

[JohnnyFlash]

Microsoft is not that differnet


Microsoft IS VERY VERY DIFFERENT. Look here:
http://www.theregus.com/content/4/24106.html


some quote:


They spend millions to grab mass market share to beat Palm, and then they get comfortable, and backburn, with a scorched earth policy for enthusiasts and community programs and outreach


so, Microsoft lovers, prepare for scorched earth...

[marlof]

Come on, I figure Yoda is your guru. In his style: do not speak when you do not know. That Register article has more facts wrong than right. And you quote an 'unnamed' source quoted by a 'journalist' who doesn't stick to hard facts but offers speculation as facts, and on some points clearly shows he does not know what he's talking about. On that you base your opinion on Microsoft? I had you figured as someone a bit more clever... As with most The Register articles: it may be a fun read, but don't take it too serious.

Next to that, I did not talk about the company as a whole, but - and you know that - about your claim that Java SDKs are an easy download. I simply pointed out to you that Mobile Devices SDKs mostly are too. In that, Microsoft is not that different.

I agree with you, let's take it easy, and let's get back to the topic of this thread: Would you like games like Pac-Man on your Smartphone 2002.

[JohnnyFlash]

As with most The Register articles: it may be a fun read, but don't take it too serious.
...
I agree with you, let's take it easy, and let's get back to the topic of this thread: Would you like games like Pac-Man on your Smartphone 2002.


Of course I quoted the register only for the sake of fun. I proposed them news eXchange but was kind of laughed out, that they are THAT serious news service. They are not very serious, and also not so accurate indeed.

Back to topic: of course EVERYBODY would like to see maximum number of games for Shmartphoney !!! Color screen and built-in connectivity are good points. That particularly excites ME is the built-in bluetooth: just imagine playing pacman (or is it legal to call it pacman if it is some clone of it) with your friend over bluetooth - no need to pay to network operators, no problems with network latency (ask GPRS users) and what a fun!!!!

I propose even that you will create on this very site (pocket pc thoughts) some billboard with list of wish-games for shmarphoney so that people could vote what they want most...

[nitrofly]

As a startup game development company with our first multiplayer game called Sykotoy (http://www.sykotoy.com/) recently launched online, we are now looking at porting the interface to wireless platforms so we can license the game for wireless network publication.

We plan on making the game available for wireless pocket pcs as soon as macromedia release the upgraded Flash player for that platform. However one of the constant bugbears smartphone interface developers face is the multitude of different screen sizes/colors/resolutions across all the different devices. Presently the interface to our game is in Flash which is great because of the screen scalability and we are presently looking for a wireless partner with a platform that will allow us to keep the game interface in Flash. If anyone knows of a smartphone platform that is rumoured to support flash I'd be very interested to hear about it! =80)

[SwitchBlade]

If anyone knows of a smartphone platform that is rumoured to support flash I'd be very interested to hear about it! =80)


There is apparently Flash for the 9210 already, so I'd assume that there will be Flash support for the other Symbian designs aswell.

SwitchBlade

[entropy1980]

JPZR you talk about servility look at yourself get down on your knees to the Java god's,talk about servility. Blind passion is just that blind....at least i am willing to admit Java has a place in the phone market and can see the benefit of having both java and smartphone on one device you on the other hand are blind to leveraging the system to your benefit, face it MS owns a huge chunk of everything may as well use it to your advantage to make your life easier rather than swim upstream. Just admit that there is a place for smartphone and java both.

[JohnnyFlash]

Just admit that there is a place for smartphone and java both.


yes, I admit! java targetting smaller phones, dumb phones and smartphones prefering rather native programs...

(I have just seen market reports showing number related to Java - and that is why I was saying so, not because it is my god, or something, check among others http://wirelesssoftware.info/more.php?&Prod=23 if you don't believe me that I have sometimes various opinions on it)

Let the best win!

[Jason Dunn]

jpzr: You're ranting like a lunatic! :lol:

I understand what you're saying, really I do, but where's the proof? Where's the Java?

I see a lot of Java on servers, but that's it. From a consumer standpoint, Java was supposed to be "everywhere" by now. We were supposed to have full-fledged Java applets in our web browser! We were supposed to have home appliances linked together using Java! (Jenie? Genie? I forget what it was called). I've been reading about J2ME for a while now, yet I haven't seen it materialize in any form.

Java was (is?) a great concept, but it never really arrived for Joe Consumer...

[entropy1980]

thanks for some back-up Jason! 8O

[JohnnyFlash]

Where's the Java?


In USA Java on mobile phones is MASSIVELY, in several models, available on mobile phones, for example at: http://www.nextel.com .

Massive rollout of mobile Java for other operators in USA and Europe is foreseen for 4rd quarter this year.

I am not ranting, just showing the facts, and you Jason simply don't know the wireless industry as I know.

See story about Mitsubish dumping PocketPC in favor of Java:

http://www.silicon.com/public/door?REQUNIQ=1014400997&6004REQEVENT=&REQINT1=51537&REQSTR1=newsnow

Jason, open your eyes and see whole industry, not just Microvadersoft...
8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

[JohnnyFlash]

I am not ranting, just showing the facts, and you Jason simply don't know the wireless industry as I know.


When you make a claim that concerns what is outside the Micro$oft Universe (ie, the world), you will be asked to produce evidence. The producing of this evidence will be referred to as ranting. I got the same for saying that non-Micro$oft products can access the 'complete' World Wide Web (rather than just a small section of it).

Worry not, I know where you're coming from (by the way, I just visited your site for the first time and it's really informative).

Jprz, look on the bright side..... at least you haven't been called a troll :roll:
(now, where are those three billy goats gruff!?)

[pocketfuncouk]

Try this article for some interesting info on j2me and games.

http://www.gamasutra.com/resource_guide/20010917/fox_01.htm

PocketFun.co.uk

[Teddy]

Going back to the subject... :wink: I'd love to play galaxian!! Cool, simple and very addictive!!!

[bitbank]

jpzr et al,
I understand your wanting to encourage the use of Java on phones because it will be a common standard and not controlled by Microsoft. The big problems with Java are outlined in the previous post's link. The point of this entire thread is about REAL video games on phones, not simple tic-tac-toe games. The best way to compare this is think about what Nokia is offering on their standard phones - SNAKE. This game is about as bland and boring as they come. Versus the potential to run PacMan (for nostalgic purposes) or more complex games on a much more powerful environment.

I'm sure people will come up with great networked chess games on Java, but why settle for that kind of gaming when it is now possible to do much more with the SmartPhone platform. If you get excited about the idea of a chess game running on your phone, then Java is the right choice; for me, I want more.

Your anger at microsoft's private beta for the SDK is unwarranted. The Smartphone platform has not been finalized yet. Microsoft will release the SDK when the design is finished just like they do for other platform SDKs. It is available for select people right now to get projects started for those who aren't afraid to have to recode their software to a changing design.

L.B.

[JohnnyFlash]

jpzr et al,
I'm sure people will come up with great networked chess games on Java, but why settle for that kind of gaming when it is now possible to do much more with the SmartPhone platform.


Indeed, I'm sure that games like Doom will be available for the M$ smartphone when it is released, just as it already is for Nokia's (see previous posts).

But I see JAVA doing a whole lot more than TIC-TAC-TOE. It is capable of a whole lot more than chess (don't believe M$ babble without finding out for yourself). I don't program in JAVA (not yet anyway), but what I've seen suggests that JAVA is considerably more powerful than what's being said here as the limit of its capabilities (I know the 9210 has a JAVA VNC client - what more does JAVA need to prove itself).

Also, what do we expect from games on a phone anyway? I'd expect a good game on a PC to keep me occupied for Ages (I am ashamed to say that I've been stuck to my PC for up to four hours playing SimCity). But how long can you expect to be playing smartphone games (ie, would you spend one hour looking at that tiny screen?)

Most of the games mentioned here (Pacman, galaxians etc) could be done in JAVA (people do sometimes put fun and addiction before fancy graphics). Sure, Doom is good on my 9210's wide screen, but anything more 'meaty' is a waste of time (think, where will you be playing these games) and, at the end of the day, battery power. Because of these practical limitations, and the fact that looking at those small screens for too long will make you go blind, I wouldn't be too concerned. Games are only for the 'show off' factor, to fill up storage space and show your mates when they're looking to buy a new phone. Call the 7650's built in camera a boring gimmick if you like, but it's far more useful that Space Invaders.

If I want to play top rate games on the go, I'll buy a Gameboy or a laptop, otherwise, a quick blast of Doom, Bounce or SnakeEX will do me fine.

PS. Re: Ranting
Look at the top of the page;

Pocket PC Thoughts
Daily news, views, rants and raves

[bitbank]

Chubbergott,
I understand your points, but I doubt that DOOM on the 9210 is written in Java. Nokia has a gaming API for their phones that has nothing to do with Java. This is the problem you will see in the near future: Each phone platform will have its own custom gaming API because Java falls short in that department. Game developers will still have to choose which unique platform to develop on. Motorola, Nokia, Palm, Microsoft...

And why not play some good games on your phone when you are stuck waiting for something? I don't know about you, but I carry my cell phone with me everywhere, and I don't carry a gameboy. Arcade games on phones is a perfect combination since the games were written for instant gratification and a quick finish (to eat lots of quarters). I doubt I would play a multi-hour adventure game on my phone, but I would take a 5 minute break to play PacMan.

:mrgreen:

[Jason Dunn]

In USA Java on mobile phones is MASSIVELY, in several models, available on mobile phones, for example at: http://www.nextel.com .


You've missed my point I'm afraid. I'm not talking about how many clients there are - I don't dispute that Java-phones will rapidly be everywhere. People will get J2ME on their phones whether they like it or not...

But what can you DO with them?

That's what I'm saying a Java in general. Great concept, but where's the execution? Where are the games, the tools, the THINGS that were promised? :?

[Jason Dunn]

Try this article for some interesting info on j2me and games.
http://www.gamasutra.com/resource_guide/20010917/fox_01.htm


Very good article to read for the Java Heroes...


For example, here are some big stumbling blocks:

No transparent images. Without transparency, overlapping sprites look really prickly. Any image that may overlap another image, or a background element will need to be rectangular in order to look good!
You cannot grab, copy, or edit the pixels of RGB images on the fly. This means that ultra-cool graphic effects like fading in, explosions, and dynamic shadows are impossible.
There is no fill-polygon or fill-triangle method, which makes rendering 3D images quite difficult.
You cannot copy raw pixel data to the screen (blit). This makes is pretty much unfeasible to do any texture-mapping or particle effects, etc.
There is no audio at all. I'll say that again: There is no freakin' audio at all!
There is no floating-point math. This makes some 3D and physics pretty difficult.
There is no native support or Java Native Interface (JNI). That means you can't dial the phone, work with any of the ringtones, work with any native user interface widgets, etc.
Additionally, the Anfyteam in Italy has put together a detailed list of gaming and graphics-related stuff that MIDP is missing.

Due to all the restrictions on a small device, there is no way of fitting in a just-in-time compiler (JIT). This means code will run quite slowly. In fact, while playing around with some casual tests, a Java 2 Micro Edition (J2ME) application runs about three to eight times slower than a native Palm application written in a compiled language such as C.


Does that really sound like a killer platform? :twisted:

[JohnnyFlash]

Sounds pants.... if you're a pimply faced kid who wants to play games. But professionals appreciate what positive things it can bring. :roll:

[SwitchBlade]

Jason can you code and if so have you lent your hand to grephics before. The "limitations" you list are the same in all progamming laguages unless you are a lamer and take someone else's api cos you are too lazy to work for your money. Transparency effects and so on are easy to produce using your brain and some code. Java implements things in strange ways, I know, but once you take time out to look through it's standard api and realise that all types are inheritors from the simple char it becomes easy to see how you can modify your types to your advantage.

Personally I have Java as a language, but then others swear by it and claim it to be the future. Time will tell, but till then I'll return to C/C++ and ASM. Anyone know where I can get ASM docs for the ARM9? :)

SwitchBlade

[entropy1980]

Again why as a developer if i am comfortable and have developed my own set of tools would i want to shift platforms? And using API's doesn't mean your lazy it's there to help and take some of the work out of basic functions having to be written over for every program, heck if you want to re-invent the wheel all the time be my guest while your writing code for stuff i have in an API I will get my product out faster and more integrated...

[SwitchBlade]

Re-inventing the wheel is a mad idea, and if the languages standard API supports a function you need use it (unless it's too slow). Many groups code their own libraries for graphics work, my old demo group on the x86 did it, not because we wanted to reinvent the wheel, but because we wanted one to our specs, that was the right size and rotated cleanly how we wanted it to.

SwitchBlade

[entropy1980]

that's fine and dandy but a majority of developers want API's (as shown by popularity of Windows and associated programming tools) being that windows is a consumer market and games a consumer market I think we see that the masses have spoken, I don't deny Java will have a huge installed base I don't see them doing much beyond that, it is not mainstream enough until you see a gaming platform ( i am talking console) or a OS that has huge market share use JAVA as a backbone i think it's relegated to nifty add-on but not the core of a system.

[SwitchBlade]

I dont see java becomming a mainstream games platform because of the speed of the virtual machine. Unless the machine ceases to be virtual and gains full hardware support it will carry on needing stupidly fast machines to perform what compiled code can do comfortable on a machine with half the spec. As for API's you can't claim that windoze has a good API, there are still API calls in there from windoze 3.1, and later API (such as the OO one) are just bolt ons on top of the earlier APIs, it's a mess. To see a real API look at BeOS, clean simple and functional. This is what is needed on a smartphone style device.

SwitchBlade

[entropy1980]

Well smartphone has a new API not based on past windows so your dealing with a clean slate here! :oops: Just kidding! hehe

[bitbank]

Entropy,
You are not correct. The smartphone is Windows CE and is 99.9% the same as programming Pocket PCs which is 95% the same as programming for the desktop version of Windows.

Quite appealing to me since I have 12 years experience programming the Windows API.

L.B.

[entropy1980]

I stand corrected :oops: there must be something missing to get it down to under 32mb in rom? No?

[entropy1980]

Larry where do you weigh in on this argument?

[bitbank]

To clarify my point of view...

This thread was started to guage the public's acceptance of arcade gaming on the new MS SmartPhone platform. I do not think it is an ideal gaming platform, but it is the best one I've seen so far. It offers direct screen access with GAPI, the Windows API for easier transition of existing code/experience, and looks like it will be picked up by a number of cellular carriers.

I think Java has its place in the world and on cell phones, but it is not suitable for ARCADE games on phones. These phones do not have the excess CPU power needed to run code at a reasonable speed on an interpreted virtual machine.

I succeeded in getting PacMan to run on the SmartPhone 2002 platform (running on a prototype phone). I'm not sure if the project will ever see the light of day because it needs someone to sponsor it and negotiate with Namco.

Some games are well suited for this platform - I think PacMan is one of them. It does not require you to pound on the keys for rapid firing; it does not require lots of buttons for different controls. The only thing required is precise timing of the 4 directional arrows. It can be played with one hand on a SmartPhone. A game like Galaga would not work well on a SmartPhone. Arcade games like PacMan can be played in a couple of minutes - perfect for when you are stuck waiting for something and have your phone with you.

I have no idea about the potential market for this type of phone, but I think it is a step in the right direction as far as putting a powerful phone/computer in your hands and I think gaming is something that people will like to do with them.

L.B.
http://www.bitbanksoftware.com/pacman2.jpg