Dysfunctional HP Tech Support & Missing Vista Drivers

[Jason Dunn]

This morning, after having checked the HP driver page for the 10th time in two months looking for a Vista driver for my 2600n colour LaserJet printer and finding nothing, I decided to try contacting someone at HP to see if I could get any answers about where their Vista drivers were for this printer. Vista has been available at retail for almost a month now, two months for many beta testers, and many new computers being sold come with Vista. Vista is here, people are using it, and they want it to work with their hardware. At first I tried their online chat tool, but despite entering in the proper product name and full serial number, it wouldn't allow me into a chat with a tech, stating that my product was "not supported". And this wasn't a Vista-specific chat either, it was a general-purpose "talk to our techs". I filled out the form with this comment:

I've been waiting over two months for Vista drivers for my 2600n printer - where the heck are they? I'm an MSDN subscriber and have been running Vista Ultimate RTM for over two months, patientingly waiting for HP to release drivers for the 2600n printer I purchased. What's going on? Where are the drivers? I keep checking the Vista driver page, hoping for an update, but one never happens... The fact that your online form doesn't even have Vista as an option tells me a lot about how behind the times HP is. Also, your online chat tool is broken - it rejects "LaserJet 2600b" and "CBYC60G0LM" as the serial number - it says that the product isn't supported and won't let me start an online chat."

I clicked SUBMIT, and saw this in my browser:

http://atwnt947.external.hp.com<snip>
Error Occurred While Processing Request
Element EMAIL_ADDRESS is undefined in SESSION.

That's not very helpful is it? I clicked back and submit again. This time I saw some additional information:

[/I]Please try the following:
Enable Robust Exception Information to provide greater detail about the source of errors. In the Administrator, click Debugging & Logging > Debugging Settings, and select the Robust Exception Information option.
Check the ColdFusion documentation to verify that you are using the correct syntax.
Search the Knowledge Base to find a solution to your problem.

Browser Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 7.0; Windows NT 6.0; SLCC1; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; Media Center PC 5.0; .NET CLR 3.0.04506)
Remote Address *.*.*.*
Referrer http://atwnt947.external.hp.com/<snip>
Date/Time 21-Feb-07 11:34 AM[/I]

At this point my blood was starting to boil a bit. I looked over the form and changed a couple of things - I had selected "Other" for OS since they didn't have Vista listed, so I changed it to XP and tried again - this time, the form submitted successfully. Don't they test their online forms to ensure that they work with all user-selected choices?<!>

Here was the response I recieved less than an hour later. Props to HP for getting back their customers quickly, but check out the quality of the reply:

"On reviewing your mail, we understand that, you want to install the Vista driver for Color Laser Jet 2600 printer. Jason, I understand your concern. However, I would like to inform you that, this printer is compatible only with the operating systems listed below:

Mac OSX
Microsoft Windows 98 SE
Microsoft Windows 2000
Microsoft Windows XP

Vista is still not included in the supported and compatible operating system's list. Our research team is working on it. Driver for this operating system would be released by July. However, you can try XP driver for it and check for the issue. Jason, please do check our website for updates. If you have any other query, then do contact us. We would be glad to assist you."

That's either a reply from out-sourced overseas technical support, or from someone in North America that didn't get past grade eight in school. Either way, it's not a satisfactory response. If a customer emails you asking about Vista drivers, telling him Vista isn't supported and listing off the operating systems that are supported is just plain insulting. And if it really does take until July (!!!) to see drivers for this printer, my respect for HP will take a huge nose-dive. I was expecting to have to wait a few weeks for Vista drivers for most of my hardware, not a few months.

[Tim Williamson]

I guess I don't fully understand why Vista even requires new drivers? Do they need to be certified or is Vista really that much different in the back-end?

[Gordo]

Welcome to the "I hate HP NOW" club. I gave up on HP years ago. I used to love their hardware, swore by it in fact. I lost a scanner to an OS upgrade. They never released drivers for some of there scanners when XP was released. I also lost a laptop to multiple hard disk failures, and finally a motherboard defect.

No more HP in my life!

[Vincent Ferrari]

Lexmark introduced 7 new printers last year. As I write this only two of the 7 are compatible with Vista.

iTunes is having issues.

HP is having issues.

What were all these companies doing with Vista for all the time they had it?

You could make the case that Vista is more complicated to develop for, but that doesn't cut it with me because these companies all have products out that ARE vista compatible so that's a meaningless pile of drivel if anyone offers that as an excuse.

Not good.

[David Horn]

Oh, damn. Well, that stuffs the Vista upgrade for my parents, then, since they use the 2600n Laserjet too.

I remember trying my computer with it a few months ago but the print spooler service crashed continually when you tried to install the driver - have they not fixed that? I didn't put too much effort into it, but assumed the XP driver would work in the final version.

[Jason Dunn]

I guess I don't fully understand why Vista even requires new drivers? Do they need to be certified or is Vista really that much different in the back-end?

That's the thing: the printer driver shouldn't need to be THAT different in order to work properly from what I understand...

[Jason Dunn]

I remember trying my computer with it a few months ago but the print spooler service crashed continually when you tried to install the driver - have they not fixed that? I didn't put too much effort into it, but assumed the XP driver would work in the final version.

I've been trying to keep my Vista machines as clean and stable as possible, so I've avoided installing any sort of XP driver on them unless I have absolutely no choice. I have another printer - a Canon MP780 - that does have Vista drivers, so that's what I'm using for printing. But I miss my HP Laserjet! :evil:

[Jason Dunn]

Another strangely-worded reply from HP tech support:

"Jason, I apologize for the inconvenience caused. We understand your frustration, but as this is a host based printer. So, we do not have an inbuilt Vista driver for this. Please wait until the Vista driver is released by July 2007."

[aroma]

The one that's burning my a$$ is Creative. One of my machines has Creative Audigy cards. All through January (I've too have had Vista for a while through my MSDN subscription), I paitently waited on Creative, as they kept saying a driver would be available by the end of Jan. (A beta driver was available prior to the end of Jan.) Sure enough, come the end of January, their Vista compatibility chart was updated, claiming a driver was now available to the Audigy card. Yet all their links continue pointing to the beta driver. Still no gold driver available.

[Jason Dunn]

All through January (I've too have had Vista for a while through my MSDN subscription), I paitently waited on Creative, as they kept saying a driver would be available by the end of Jan.

Insane. Why are these companies so BAD at this? They've had *five years* to make this scenario better than it was from Windows 2000 to XP... 8O

[Filip Norrgard]

I must say that HP is not doing well here. First the time to release for a Windows Vista printer driver and then the support. What do they mean with "host based printer" and "inbuilt Vista driver" -- do you have to reinstall a special HP printer version of Vista to get the printer to work? :?

One good experience with driver "deliverability" for Vista is the timed release of the drivers for my Terratec T2 Digital TV tuner. The release date: 1st of February this year. But, the kicker is that they digitally signed the driver so that I can get it running in Windows Vista 64-bit. Makes me want to buy some more digital TV tuners from them again... :)

[Jason Dunn]

The release date: 1st of February this year. But, the kicker is that they digitally signed the driver so that I can get it running in Windows Vista 64-bit. Makes me want to buy some more digital TV tuners from them again... :)

It's nice when a company treats you with respect as a customer, releases drivers on time, and works hard to keep your future business, isn't it? I wish more companies were like that.

[peterawest]

I’ve found similar problems with getting support for Software. For example, my wife works as a medical transcriptionist and uses a product from TranscriptionGear called GearPlayer.

Back in December I installed a released version of Vista on a machine and attempted to install the GearPlayer software. The install checks to see if you have IE 6.x or newer, and if not, it will not allow the install to continue. Obviously Vista had IE 7.x so this should have been fine, but the GearPlayer installer refused to acknowledge that, and refused to install the software.

When contacted, TranscriptionGear told me that I was using software that was not yet released, so they were not offering support until January 30th. I reminded them that Vista had already been released to Microsoft’s business customers. Didn’t matter to them. Now it’s late in February and still no updates have been posted by TranscriptionGear.

Recently I was contacted by one of their sales representatives. I asked again about Vista support and was told that they don’t have a date yet. In the meantime, I was pointed to a product called Express Scribe (from a company based in Australia), and low and behold although this software is FREE, they already have an update for Vista. Guess who is not going to be spending money on any upgrade for TranscriptionGear’s software.

[bmhome1]

I wouldn't worry about legacy drivers or nearly any application (exceptions include anti-virus and maybe two dozen particular softwares to avoid even trying. Good guide here:

http://www.iexbeta.com/wiki/index.php/Windows_Vista_RTM_Software_Compatibility_List

There's much prior, now ready-to-use research some of us already did from numerous beta test builds installed as experiments to provide solid advice from actual experience pushing the boundaries of Vista using nothing but legacy softwares. The hosed outcomes are clearly documented and the non-issues also, even though less dramatic to perpetuate Vista fears.

That such a tolerant, robust OS got labeled otherwise is all the more confusing to those who may have been running it almost a year and dozens of full installs with multiples softwares each time. The beta testers are the ones with real answers. Some really extreme attempts to intentionally inflict damage for sharing results builds real rep to follow. Highly vocal complaints often have little basis (even none) making conclusions spread further to become accepted facts. The dissemination speed and degree towards Vista is unprecedented.

I have used XP drivers for two HP printers (one's Toolbox applet simply even copied over from XP OS, fully functional), an ancient 2001 Epson printer, Canon scanner pre-XP era, firewire webcam drivers, virtually anything and everything works perfectly well without destabilizing Vista or speed drags at all.

The system level for drivers remains nearly identical to XP in Vista. There's no reason the newer drivers later released couldn't update using Device Manager or at worst, simply uninstalling legacy driver first using same. There will be many, many devices never getting Vista drivers anyways.

Actually, first, try plugging in the device, one may be surprised to find Vista finding the driver from within huge File Repository or auto on-line search. The feature of self-locating drivers in Vista has been very well addressed.

A work-around to the rare "IE 5 missing" installer issue is to simply copy over the temp folder installer creates in XP and manually launch from that.

Of over 50 applications installed and running in Vista, less than five or six were Vista-ready featured (and that's including specific Vista-only essential anti-virus and defrag tools). All the rest are legacy XP (and even one or two predate XP versions) software, simply installed ALWAYS first selecting Compatibility mode from installer properties. That way, Vista compensates and guides elements to the new pathways Vista uses that changed from legacy OS.

But, I can attest that the whole process works and does so extremely smoothly, using a little common sense and awareness of those rare exceptions to norm that have gotten far too much attention and create abnormal apprehension and "Vista-ready" concerns Vista doesn't deserve.

So much misconceptions have become associated with Vista and what it requires. Hint: CPU means less than RAM maximized and fast hard drive with lots free partition space non-fragmented paging as designed, 20GB bare minimum. Realize the resources tax Aero imposes and easily surfaces on any hardware, the lower the greater degree threshold. Beta testers tired of the spikes drag cost as newness wore off. At least try turning it off first if applications slow down when pushed hard running. Anything fast in XP should be also in Vista, often even more running same hardware. If not, there's issues besides legacy software (gaming one major exception).

Here's my partial list of applications installed and running exactly as when installed in XP (Vista on 2003 1.7Gz laptop and even 1Gz slate tablet Motion 1300, that barely meets minimum specs to even install Vista, yet runs serious software smoothly:

PS CS2 9.0.1
Nikon Capture 1.0.1
Vuescan
FastStone Image Viewer 3.0
FastStone Player
FastStone Capture 4.0
FoxIt PDF Reader 2.0
Primo PDF Printer
Fire-i Webcam 3.0.1
Windows Media Encoder 9.0
Camtasia Studio 4
M-Player
TMPGenc Video Editor
TMPGenc DVD Author
Sony Vegas 6.0
Womble MPEG editor
Word XP
One Note 2003
Mind Mapper
Palm eReader
Read Iris Pro 10
Zinio Reader
Starry Night Pro 5.0.1

Only one single application installed but didn't run, Nikon Camera Control Pro 1.20 actually needed Vista-specific update to 1.30. They state that Capture 1.1 does also, but I have no trouble with Capture 1.0.1 except it got confused using default saves location, until changed.


Just avoid those over-publicized gotcha's like Daemon Tool pre-4.0 that wreck havoc and got all the bad press. Unless the application offers real new features, paying for "Vista-ready" currently more about implying vague issues as marketing tool.

At least until next-generation software that truly takes advantage of Vista-unique features surface. That will be late 2007 or longer and hardware to match handling layered effect features as focus increases. It's not usual assumed OS inefficiency at the core level, free of desktop animation burdens Vista often use less resources than XP running same applications.

I wish Microsoft gave Vista the chance to perform before making it and Aero as if one entity until future horsepower emerged to handle both better. Instead Vista got instantly perceived as bloated, sluggish and intensely hardware dependent. True choosing Aero adornments, that's the tradeoff. When overall productivity gets affected, blame is the whole OS design. No resolution, yet easy to buy into concept seeing fast desktop dragging, that makes no sense if 1Gz tablet doesn't. Even though focus here is towards new hardware not old, it's too easy to find common reports of fully loaded systems hobbled handling Vista.

Most XP hardware could run an unadorned Vista just fine. The Basic UI is ugly, but that can be cured using freeware Hilled SE theme and some tinkering inside. Once exploring system file levels or registry editing the reality of Vista more clearly being XP evolution is unmistakable, just as easy to understand and finally demystified.

[Jason Dunn]

Thanks for the detailed response bmhome1 - very interesting reading...

[bmhome1]

Jason,

My only hardware are the two tablets, actually great tools to unmask each and every piece of the Vista optimization puzzle, being at the low end of specs. Kind of like the canary in the coal mine early warning siren for every single OS change or addition, anything that truly does pull down Vista is palpable immediately without built-in bias or presumptions coloring results. And tablets have far more running processes, I usually have over 50. The stylus digitizer interface adds significant resources tax laptops don't have either. Common logic seems impossible working.

My Motion 1300 is now literally (MS used to state 800mz) the absolute minimum to even get Vista to install at 1Gz and 855 graphics. Should be unbearable to use and useless beyond simplest tasks.

But I get PS CS2 running Smart Sharpen filter on a 25MB tiff file done under 10 seconds. Not noteworthy time by any standards EXCEPT contradicting entirely notions of Vista resource needs.

I can play DVD's, re encode video files, even record firewire webcam live to WME9 .wmv file conversions directly and indefinitely without glitches, stutter or lost frames. Again, totally unremarkable output except for the hardware running belittled OS.

1GB of RAM and 7200rpm hard drive help immensely too.

I HAVE worked hard getting there, but a positive attitude and suspicion towards exaggerated, hard-to-believe issues almost always reported from predictable negativity viewpoint poisoning possible results beyond venting. Which seems to attract more like bait and take over whole focus. I even avoid recommending favorite sites (like here) fearing tainting quality resource with ranter's redirection. Its hard moving forward stalled with misinformation the main subject. The phenomenon in Vista web posts tone ignited should be studied and documented. I have never seen so much wrong, poorly supported claims, weird computer bigotry than since Vista's retail launch and Joe public replacing beta tester dialog with whining chorus of dissent. Setting straight lasts only long enough for new arrivals repeating cycle.

The short version advice is simply assume nothing, monitor every single change (whether slowdown or unshackling effect) and do what ever it takes to get results reasonable from particular hardware. Only one person getting success has more to offer than 10 who don't.

My 1Gz Vista idles at 5-15% CPU and spikes 100% briefly but never pegs unless something is misbehaving. The OS as culprit has been extremely rare. Task Manager in Vista is essential tuning the system and excising the resource hog software and finding something better that works just as well. My list in above post are each exceptional applications for that.

As an example, FoxIt PDF reader can render a 1,200 page book before Acrobat Reader finishes splash screening. And display through as fast clicking real time. That's when using 1.5MB alternative to truly bloated monstrous software Vista responds with lightning performance results. Not much has changed except lousy software running framed with eyecandy makes fixing slowdowns sources more complicated and especially elusive when seemingly without reason. More effects to come and HD huge resource demands are certain to exacerbate further vexing issues.

I had Dreamscape-type desktop animation in Vista last fall using forced 3D tweak. The wheat grasses windblown desktop's subtle tiny movements drove me insane framing open windows edges. I thought Clippy and Flash web page animations were long ago dismissed universally as only distraction at best and illogical for the 2D computer environment, except status bars and cursor blinking shifting focus attention for reasons and productivity.

[Fitch]

I called HP to be removed from their catalog mailing list. That was a terrible exercise in mis-communication. They had very thick Indian accents, and when I could not understand them, I tried my darndest to be as polite as possible. It was difficult for the agent to understand that I did not have an account, and once it was finally conveyed that I was asking for catalog list removal, I was transfered and placed on hold. After ten minutes, I managed to get removed, but from the poor communication, I'll bet I was added to a list and then-some, for all I know.

And this really made me loose my faith in HP. If this was their catalog system, what could I expect from technical support?

&lt;HP CSR mode>Jason, you do have a point that their treatment of customers will influence future choice of their buying. Jason, I steered my father-in-law away from him buying an HP notebook last week. Jason, do wish that the higher-ups at HP see your experience and see if they would like to be treated like that.&lt;/HP CSR mode>

[kiwi]

&lt;HP CSR mode>Jason, you do have a point that their treatment of customers will influence future choice of their buying. Jason, I steered my father-in-law away from him buying an HP notebook last week. Jason, do wish that the higher-ups at HP see your experience and see if they would like to be treated like that.&lt;/HP CSR mode>


:D :D :D
thats is the funniest thing I read today!!! ha ha!! lol!! :-)

[Crocuta]

This is the same line that lots of companies use. We all knew that Vista was coming out, and just assumed that reputable companies would release drivers. (And they certainly should!) But when they don't they always take the same line. "Look on the box and you'll see that Vista was not listed as a supported OS. Guess you're out of luck."

You're just lucky that they plan to make a driver for your printer at all. I have a Sandisk Cruzer Titanium U3 that I bought less than two months ago. Some Titanium drives (randomly distributed, I guess) can be updated with software to run on Vista, but most of them (mine included) will never run on Vista. (Different firmware versions.) Sandisk's response to complaints is just what I wrote above. We never promised it would run on Vista so don't compain that it doesn't. Why don't you buy one of our new drives that does run on Vista?

My response is always the same. Reward those companies that treat their customers well and withhold my money from those who do not. If we all did that, then the message would get through. For what it's worth, HP has been on my no-buy list for about two years now.

[whydidnt]

I know you said you preferred not to gunk up you machine with XP drivers... thought I'd let you know, though - I'm using an HP LJ2600n with two Vista machines and the XP drivers with virtually no issues. It should work, if you are willing to install the older drivers.

This is a similar argument to the one at PPCT where some of us gripe about lack of OS upgrades. Seems to me that if you argue that we shouldn't expect PPC manufacturers to supply OS upgrades then why should expect those same guys to provide driver upgrades for a new OS? In both cases it's a net loss to the company having to provide the upgrade.

[SundownSupport]

... I'm using an HP LJ2600n with two Vista machines and the XP drivers with virtually no issues. It should work, if you are willing to install the older drivers.

Could you explain how you got this to work? I installed the XP drivers for the LJ2600n on Vista Business as a local printer, using a Standard TCP/IP port, and it blew chunks, killed the print spooler, and threw an error. Any help would be much appreciated.

[whydidnt]

Could you explain how you got this to work? I installed the XP drivers for the LJ2600n on Vista Business as a local printer, using a Standard TCP/IP port, and it blew chunks, killed the print spooler, and threw an error. Any help would be much appreciated.

I'm not sure I can give too much guidance, but here goes. I downloaded the most recent driver from the HP support site (not the whole package, just the driver). Unzipped it to a folder on my HD. Ran the new printer wizard and pointed to that folder when it asked for a driver. Said okay to the windows message about it being an incorrect driver. Then I went into the printer setup and configured the TCP/IP port to match what I had been using in XP, rebooted and it worked. One thing I notice is that the port protocol is configured as "RAW" not LPR. I'm using port #9100, too.

I should also note that this was on a clean Vista install, not an upgrade, so I didn't have any gunk out there interfering.

[ctmagnus]

Here's my issue with regards to HP printers and Vista: The drivers for the printers I have access to are included in the OS, but I can only print to the printers if I'm hardwired to them. That means unhooking everything here and grabbing my spare USB cable, walking down the hall to where the printer is located (ie, where there is room for the printer) and connecting the computer to the printer before I can print.

HP offers this wonderful blurb as a solution to this:

You might find that some of the advanced features are no longer available when using this basic driver. You can upgrade to an HP product that is fully compatible with Windows Vista if the advanced features are necessary.

[logik519]

Ok well I want to address a few things I have read on this site and clarify some faulty information I have just read here. Just for starters I am a computer technician with plenty of experince in diagnosing and repairing PCs as well as extensive knowledge of Windows, MAC and Linux OS's (Operating Systems) - I also work for HP Tech support (IPG - Deskjet printers and photosmart printers and cameras, scanjet and officejet) in North America (Ontario, Canada to be exact)

I've read about several people having issues with compatibility between Windows Vista and HP products. What the EU (end-user) has falied to understand (or just hasn't been educated about) is the fact that Microsoft released Vista knowing that many PC hardware and software companies had not created compatible drivers for the OS at the time of it's debut. Microsoft was not worried about incompatibility issues becuase of a few (main) reasons

1) They want users to buy **their** products (MAINLY software) which will work with Vista right away....

2) Microsoft knows that other companies in the field will be pressed into creating new drivers for Vista by consumer complaints about incompatibility

Honestly, I have not even installed Vista for this very reason. I am waiting until next year. I believe by this time, most companies will have created Vista compatible drivers for their products.

End-users should also take the time to read the instruction manual(s) included on the software cd's they receive with their hardware. Taking the time to educate yourself about the product(s) you own will save you both time and money and you may be able to troubleshoot on your own should a problem arise.

[Jason Dunn]

What the EU (end-user) has falied to understand (or just hasn't been educated about) is the fact that Microsoft released Vista knowing that many PC hardware and software companies had not created compatible drivers for the OS at the time of it's debut.

So HP and the other companies were surprised by the release of Vista because the year or so of public beta testing wasn't enough lead time?

Come on, HP had PLENTY of time to get their drivers ready! :roll:

[meshif]

I also do tech support for HP in the desktop team. (btw logik- are u at ssm or windsor?) Anyways, if you look at previous versions of windows you notice something -- they all did bad on launch. This is somewhat because MS wants to rush their products out and they don't wait for other h/w AND s/w companies to update their products. All these other companies are trying to get this done and releasing beta updates to hold you (end-user) over until the final fix is out. Once sp1 for Vista comes out things will be smoother still. My advice: avoid Vista as long as possible - xp works (kinda) so dont try to fix it