C|NET Reviews the Zen V Plus

[Jason Dunn]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://reviews.cnet.com/Creative_Zen_V_Plus_2GB_white/4505-6490_7-31935067.html?subj=fdba&part=rss&tag=MR_Search+Results' target='_blank'>http://reviews.cnet.com/Creative_Zen_V_Plus_2GB_white/4505-6490_7-31935067.html?subj=fdba&part=rss&tag=MR_Search+Results</a><br /><br /></div><i>"Creative Labs has a history of turning out great MP3 players, and the Zen V and the Zen V Plus--available in July and August, respectively--are no exception. These cute and pocketable flash devices are packed with features and offer impressive performance, making them an excellent option for anyone looking for a lower-capacity, solid-state MP3 player. Of course, since the Creative Zen V Plus adds two desirable extras to the package (an FM radio and video playback), yet costs only about $25 more than the Zen V, we think that the Plus is the way to go--more bang for your buck. You can pick up the 1GB model for $129.99, the 2GB for $169.99, or the 4GB for $229.99. Comparatively, the Zen V lists at $119.99 (1GB), $149.99 (2GB), and $199.99 (4GB). In either case, it's a better deal than the iPod Nano."</i><br /><br /><img src="http://www.digitalmediathoughts.com/images/prod15306_hdr_1_6_1.jpg" /><br /><br />I daresay this looks like a smash hit for Creative - C|NET gave it an 8.3 out of 10 rating, which for them, is quite high. The battery life lasted 20 hours in the C|NET test, five hours longer than rated. Everything about the Zen V Plus makes it a hot player this summer. Problem is, most of the world is still iPod crazy and they might not even notice this little gem. :roll:

[Janak Parekh]

Out of curiosity, who are you rolling your eyes at? I'm not quite sure how the public is supposed to find out about the Zen V, and that name alone makes it hard for consumers to distinguish...

--janak

[Jason Dunn]

Out of curiosity, who are you rolling your eyes at?

The iPod crazy consumers who buy without doing any research into what the best product for their dollar is.

[James Fee]

Looks nice, but I don't think it is enough to get anyone to move from their iPods. Kinda like the last couple players from Creative, nice but not enough...

[sojourner753]

Out of curiosity, who are you rolling your eyes at?

The iPod crazy consumers who buy without doing any research into what the best product for their dollar is.


Jason, I agree that its a shame that this guy will probably shine brightly in obscurity. But I don't blame the consumers.

Apple is the only company that seems to understand that you can't make any waves with a "If you build it they will come" attitude.

Consumers have the money and a short attentions span. They go after whats the shiniest at the time. And any company that can't understand and take advantage of that shouldn't get any play.

Creative can't ever seem to finish what they start. When are they going to fix that blasted Zen Organizer so I can get PodCasts automatically on my Zen. its been beta for a year.

I do love my Zen:M though. :wink:

[Phronetix]

Out of curiosity, who are you rolling your eyes at?

The iPod crazy consumers who buy without doing any research into what the best product for their dollar is.

You see, I politely disagree with your suggestion that this Creative unit is a better product for the dollar. When you factor in the ease of use with the most popular online music store; the choice in accessories that is so utterly in the iPod's favor; the fact that there are Apple Stores in most major centres that cater to one brand alone... i'd venture to say that these components make up for any dollar savings. Not to mention the fact that there's even greater functionality if you have a Mac.

Just one man's opinion,
Dennis
:rainbow1:

[Jason Dunn]

...the choice in accessories that is so utterly in the iPod's favor...

I can't argue with you on that one - the line-up of iPod accessories is truly impressive. Meanwhile, six months later, I'm still waiting for Vaja to release a Zen Vision:M case (they finally did a couple of weeks ago, but mine hasn't shown up yet).

[Mr. MacinTiger]

The iPod crazy consumers who buy without doing any research into what the best product for their dollar is.

Huh? If I made a similar lament crying "Why won't Windows consumers research a better OS for their dollar like Mac OS X?", you would criticize me for it.

Have you considered that maybe the consumer DOES know best and that the iPod is doing so well because it is the best thing going to this point? God forbid an Apple product actually be top of the class in quality and in sales.
:roll:

***quote trimmed by mod JD***

[Phronetix]

Have you considered that maybe the consumer DOES know best and that the iPod is doing so well because it is the best thing going to this point?

I think Jason's frustration comes from the fact that many consumers blindly assume that the iPod is only option for them because of the hype, and not because they looked into the facts.

The funny thing is, Jason, your frustration so closely mirrors the frustration Mac users have held for so long about their operating system and hardware. We always complain that, if consumers would actually take the time to understand the Mac OS, to try it out, and to know the facts before they buy, then the choice would be clear (in our opinion, naturally). We view the OS world the same way: that the current "hype" about Windows is overblown, that Windows fans are just drinking the Redmond "koolaid" and that the fact that it is so popular is because it has saturated the market, and frankly we can't do anything about it, and frustrates us immensely.

:wink:

***quote trimmed by mod JD***

[Damion Chaplin]

We view the OS world the same way: that the current "hype" about Windows is overblown, that Windows fans are just drinking the Redmond "koolaid" and that the fact that it is so popular is because it has saturated the market, and frankly we can't do anything about it, and frustrates us immensely. :wink:

Actually, the reason Windows is so popular is because we can install it on machines of our own making (or any other machine we wish, including some Macs even). I can build a PC with better specs than a Mac for half the price. If they would just release OSX so we could install it on our own machines, and not overpriced, underpowered hardware, then it would be a fair fight. Don't blame MS for Apple's proprietary attitude... :wink:

[Jason Dunn]

We view the OS world the same way: that the current "hype" about Windows is overblown...

A Mac user saying Windows is over-hyped? Well that's a funny twist of irony. ;-)

[Lee Yuan Sheng]

Hey, it's just like Sony with electronics in general, Canon for cameras, Nokia for handphones... Sometimes the marketing helps.

[sojourner753]

Sometimes the marketing helps.

Thats all I'm saying. :wink:

[Janak Parekh]

Hey, it's just like Sony with electronics in general, Canon for cameras, Nokia for handphones... Sometimes the marketing helps.
Bingo. That's what I was saying. Product value, usability, etc. aside, Apple knows how to market, Creative does not. The old, overcliched adage in sales, namely "the customer is always right", is something Creative (or Sandisk, for that matter) hasn't learned.

Jason, if you build a product and wait around for customers to do research, you'll wait a very, very long time. Especially when you make as many products with the name "Zen" in it as possible. When someone like me can't keep track of which Zen is which, Creative is doing something terribly, terribly wrong.

--janak

[Janak Parekh]

Actually, the reason Windows is so popular is because we can install it on machines of our own making (or any other machine we wish, including some Macs even).
This is an oft-repeated point, but Apple has a) made a conscious decision that their product is the combination of hardware and software, and b) that the PC-building enthusiasts are a small market that they are not interested in targeting.

You may disagree about the size in b), but there is certainly a rationale behind a). One example: my Powerbook has, by far, the most reliable suspend/resume functionality of any notebook I've ever used. The notebook will literally suspend or resume in less than 1 second. This is not the case with any Windows notebook I've used (including tablet PCs), and seeing how insanely complex the ACPI specification is, I'm not sure it would be. ;) The fact that resuming often took 15+ seconds on my Toshiba Portege 3505 tablet PC (and crashed doing so about 5% of the time) was the final nail in my Windows laptop-using coffin.*

Anyway, we're getting offtopic, so I'll stop. ;)

--janak

* To be precise, resuming on Windows XP, Tablet PC Edition took about 2-5 seconds to resume on average, but then the machine would thrash and think for a while, and generally be unresponsive for at least 10 seconds, and sometimes as long as a minute. This was a machine with 1GB of RAM and a 7200RPM disk, with very few background processes running. My Powerbook is literally ready to use in 1 second with the exception of WiFi, which does typically take another 3-4 seconds to associate.

[Macguy59]

Actually, the reason Windows is so popular is because we can install it on machines of our own making (or any other machine we wish, including some Macs even). I can build a PC with better specs than a Mac for half the price. If they would just release OSX so we could install it on our own machines, and not overpriced, underpowered hardware, then it would be a fair fight. Don't blame MS for Apple's proprietary attitude... :wink:

No offense Damion but that argument makes me laugh every time I see it. The VAST majority of computers in use today are not home built so your argument is without merit. As for Mac hardware being underpowered . . . . have you actually used any of the Intel based Macs? My 20" Duo Core iMac screams and runs XP Pro faster than any PC I've owned.

[Jason Dunn]

I'm a bit baffled as to how this has turned into a Mac vs. PC thread, but I guess I should never underestimate the ability of some Mac users to make everything about the Mac.

The VAST majority of computers in use today are not home built so your argument is without merit.

Right. The vast majority of PCs are cheap, sub-$600 machines - a market that Apple is very content to leave to the PC makers to scrap it out for. Apple wants to remain a "premiere" brand, so they will not duke it out at this low level, and thus never achieve true mass-market success. But that's OK with them, they really don't want everyone to be using a Mac. If everyone was, you wouldn't feel special. ;-)

As for Mac hardware being underpowered . . . . have you actually used any of the Intel based Macs? My 20" Duo Core iMac screams and runs XP Pro faster than any PC I've owned.

Take a look at the latest issue of Maximum PC, it's quite interesting, they benchmarked a Mac running OS X and XP, on the same hardware using Boot Camp, and it was interesting that XP ran faster than OS X. Even on the same hardware, OS X is a bit pokey. But I don't think people buy Macs for speed, they buy it for the experience and the feeling they get from being different and special.

[Macguy59]

I'm a bit baffled as to how this has turned into a Mac vs. PC thread, but I guess I should never underestimate the ability of some Mac users to make everything about the Mac.


Now that is worthy of some eye rolling :roll: Isn't the name of this site still "Digital Media Thoughts" or did I miss the memo about the name change to "Windows Fanboy R Us" ?




Mostly joking :wink:

[Jason Dunn]

Now that is worthy of some eye rolling :roll: Isn't the name of this site still "Digital Media Thoughts" or did I miss the memo about the name change to "Windows Fanboy R Us" ?

I was simply pointing out that this thread is about the Zen V and iPod, and somehow it's turned into a "My computer is better than yours" thread and those never amount to anything...perhaps we should all just give it a rest?

[Macguy59]

Take a look at the latest issue of Maximum PC, it's quite interesting, they benchmarked a Mac running OS X and XP, on the same hardware using Boot Camp, and it was interesting that XP ran faster than OS X. Even on the same hardware, OS X is a bit pokey. But I don't think people buy Macs for speed, they buy it for the experience and the feeling they get from being different and special.

Given Apple's use of Quartz for rendering, Vista would be a better source for benchmarks IMO.

[Macguy59]

Now that is worthy of some eye rolling :roll: Isn't the name of this site still "Digital Media Thoughts" or did I miss the memo about the name change to "Windows Fanboy R Us" ?

I was simply pointing out that this thread is about the Zen V and iPod, and somehow it's turned into a "My computer is better than yours" thread and those never amount to anything...perhaps we should all just give it a rest?

On that we agree Jason.

[klinux]

Out of curiosity, who are you rolling your eyes at?

The iPod crazy consumers who buy without doing any research into what the best product for their dollar is.

Joined this late but I too agree that the above statement is a flamebait.

Maybe the consumers did do reasearch and realize that any thing Creative makes is junk. &lt;-- Note this is a flamebait too.

[Dyvim]

The iPod crazy consumers who buy without doing any research into what the best product for their dollar is.

You might make a case that today the Zen V or Zen V plus is a better value at $200/$230 for 4GB vs. the nano at $250 for 4GB, but where was Creative last September when the nano was launched? The nano in a way is now an older product and so the comparison isn't quite fair. If Apple releases higher capacity nanos this Fall and keep the same $250 price point for the best one, then which would be the best product for their dollar?

This has been going on at least since Apple released the iPod mini. The 4GB 1st generation iPod mini was a huge success that many tried to copy. Just when competitors were releasing interesting 4 and even 5 GB players that seemed a better value for the money against the pricey minis, Apple released the iPod mini in a 6GB capacity at the same price point as the older 4GB model and was the first to market with a 6 GB mini HD player. Then just when the competitors started releasing players to compete with or exceed the 2nd generation mini, Apple leap-frogged them again by discontinuing the mini (their most popular iPod to date) and releasing the nano, which was the first 4 GB flash player as well as having a super cool (albeit fragile) form factor. I'm predicting (hoping) that later this year Apple will leapfrog the competition yet again and release a nice 2nd generation iPod nano.

Note: I didn't even like iPods and used a PDA for all my mp3 listening until someone gave me a mini and I was blown away by its convenience and ease of use.

[Phronetix]

But I don't think people buy Macs for speed, they buy it for the experience and the feeling they get from being different and special.

Which I surmise is the exact same sort of special-ness you feel when you buy and use your Creative Zen. Or when you order all the parts of your new pc from all-over-the-place, then put it together, and take pics of the process. (Which I found really interesting, btw).

But I doubt that is the only reason you buy the Zen or a build-at-home pc... not even close, I bet. It just is not such a one-dimensional argument. I will refrain from going further in this Zen vs iPod discussion.

I wish to commend my fellow users for remaining civil, for the most part, in this latest spontaneous, Mac vs PC debate. It's a step forward. :way to go:

[Janak Parekh]

I'm a bit baffled as to how this has turned into a Mac vs. PC thread, but I guess I should never underestimate the ability of some Mac users to make everything about the Mac.
A lot of Mac users are very defensive about their babies. ;) Me, I'm pretty even about things.

Apple wants to remain a "premiere" brand, so they will not duke it out at this low level, and thus never achieve true mass-market success.
I'm not 100% convinced of this. As computers become more and more appliance-like, Apple has a chance to replicate some of their iPod success. I agree it's unlikely they'll ever capture a commanding marketshare, but I do think their marketshare will grow.

Take a look at the latest issue of Maximum PC, it's quite interesting, they benchmarked a Mac running OS X and XP, on the same hardware using Boot Camp, and it was interesting that XP ran faster than OS X.
Not a big surprise, actually. The OS kernel under OS X, Apple's hacked Mach kernel, is known to be rather inefficient (http://www.applematters.com/index.php/section/comments/how-long-will-apple-keep-the-mach-microkernel/), especially in threading. They've improved it and will continue to, but that's certainly not one of OS X's strengths.

But I don't think people buy Macs for speed, they buy it for the experience and the feeling they get from being different and special.
I'd like to think some of them (*cough*) buy it because it offers features that Windows doesn't, on occasion. ;) But I readily admit my reasons for buying a Mac are fairly niche, and I still continue to recommend Windows when appropriate. (For instance, anyone doing serious collaboration will find Mac Office to be a pain, especially when embedded WMF objects are involved. Me, I end up remoting to a Windows PC or using Virtual PC to run Office for Windows in those cases. Office 2004 isn't bad, but it's not 100% identical to Office for Windows.)

(So much for my attempts to stop. :?)

--janak

[Mr. MacinTiger]

Honestly my intent was not to direct the thread into anything mac vs. win. I've been down that road before and it's not pretty.

Please note that I was just pointing out that # 1 - Jason's inital arguement sounded similiar to the wasted laments of countless OS X users when thinking about windows and mainly # 2 - Maybe consumers do know best and the iPod is a best seller because they are the best the market has produced thus far.

(And yes, I realize that the #1 and #2 put together implies that I am saying that consumers have decided that the Windows OS is the best available and that its success is deserved)

[kiwi]

a couple points:

1) Marketing.. its all about Joe Average consumer and MARKETING! People say ipod when they mean MP3/Media Player now.

2) I just got a new Intel iMac Computer. Wow! Slowly transforming myself away from Windows but wow.. things just like.. err.. WORK.. I tried my Bluetooth headset with skype and it worked first time! Win XP was very flakey - driver issues etc.

[Macguy59]

I just got a new Intel iMac Computer. Wow! Slowly transforming myself away from Windows but wow.. things just like.. err.. WORK.. I tried my Bluetooth headset with skype and it worked first time! Win XP was very flakey - driver issues etc.

Welcome grasshopper :D