Reasons for Re-Ripping

[Jason Dunn]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.wired.com/news/technology/internet/0,69098-0.html' target='_blank'>http://www.wired.com/news/technology/internet/0,69098-0.html</a><br /><br /></div><i>"For Rossman, the epiphany came after he bought a new car stereo and started making CDs from files he had ripped using the AAC standard at 128 kilobits per second. He had already switched from the MP3 format to AAC, largely based on assurances from Apple Computer, which uses the format on its iTunes music store and claims that, bit for bit, AAC outperforms the older standard. Listening to music on the new stereo, Rossman says he noticed a clear deterioration in sound quality compared with the original CDs from which he ripped the tunes. One album, by a death-metal group called Lamb of God, wasn't produced all that well to begin with, Rossman says, and when he transferred the AAC file to a CD and played it in his new car stereo, the speakers sounded like they were playing under water and the bass drums were muddy."</i><br /><br />This article touches on an interesting point - if you have a collection made up of files from your own CDs and files from file sharing services, odds are good that they're not all of the same quality. I re-ripped my CD collection from scratch a few years ago, and it was painful, mostly because some of the CDs weren't in the Windows Media Player database, which meant myself or my wife had to type in the track names. Have you ever re-ripped your CD collection? If so, why?

[Ed Hansberry]

I reripped a few years ago when WMP began to support VBR natively, and yeah, quite a few of my CDs aren't in that database, so it will take something pretty spectacular to get me to re-rip in the future.

[Gordo]

I am actually about half way through the process right now.

Reason: I have not consistently ripped the music. Some CD's were on one computer, some on others, and many on all of them. I am going south on vacation and wanted to load up the new 20Gig MP3 player with one set of songs, so I decided to re-rip the entire collection.

I only hope I can get it done before we leave.

[Jason Dunn]

Reason: I have not consistently ripped the music. Some CD's were on one computer, some on others, and many on all of them. I am going south on vacation and wanted to load up the new 20Gig MP3 player with one set of songs, so I decided to re-rip the entire collection.

Maybe this is a dumb question, but why not just move them all together into the same folder across your network or something? Or is it more than you have duplicates and re-ripping is a good way to clean it all up?

[Gordo]

Good question:
1) Windows networking and file sharing does not work as easily as I would like.
2) Consistent quality setting, all nicely saved on the mobile drive.
3) Majority of library was actually not ripped.

[Jason Dunn]

Windows networking and file sharing does not work as easily as I would like.

Check this out: www.networkmagic.com

I'm very comfortable with Windows Networking and I still bought it because it's just SO nice. :-)

[Gordo]

Check this out: www.networkmagic.com

WOW...For $29 AND a free copy, can't go wrong.

I think Santa just delivered an early gift.

[gibson042]

I started ripping my CDs into 192 kbps MP3 in the summer of 2000. About a year and a half ago, I decided to start over with the Free Lossless Audio Codec (FLAC) (http://flac.sourceforge.net/), and I'll never look back. Audio CDs are compressed by about 50%, and so generally take up 300-400 MB on disk.

For listening to music on my MP3 player, I simply convert the audio to a lossy format when I transfer it over. If something ever happens to the original CD, I can create a perfect copy any time I choose. And if a better lossless codec comes out (like a dramatic improvement in FLAC's competitor Monkey's Audio (http://www.monkeysaudio.com/index.html)), I can convert everything to it and save space without re-ripping. Lossless formats may not be small, but using them means I'll never have to re-rip again. It's worth it.

[ShinKen]

First time I ripped my cd collection is was into an mp3 format, then my hd died where I had all my music :cry: I then proceeded to re-rip everything again this time into wma lossless. So far so good.

[James Fee]

I had ripping into mp3 years ago and wanted to increase the bitrate on my files. I hated doing it the first time as it just too way to long. I ended up using a CD ripping service which worked wonderful. I couldn't belive how little hassle it was and what a good job they did.

http://www.ripdigital.com/

I could never imagine not paying somone to rip for me when I have more than 10 to do.

[Jason Dunn]

I ended up using a CD ripping service which worked wonderful. I couldn't belive how little hassle it was and what a good job they did.

I have to admit that as much as I like the idea of someone doing all the ripping work, there's just no way I'd pay for it - it would cost me at least $400 for the job + $100 or more in shipping, and because I have several computers it's really easy to pop in a CD then go to work on another PC. Glad it worked out for you though. ;-)

[Phronetix]

I think FLAC, Apple Lossless codec and whatever WMP will default to will be the next big thing.

I love music, but I'm far from an audiophile. I just shrug off the odd time my aac files aren't perfectly reproducing their respective wav files. There comes a time when technology is good enough. Or, at least, good enough for now. The relentless search for the the perfect codec can really bring out the OCD in people. :silly:

[James Fee]

I have to admit that as much as I like the idea of someone doing all the ripping work, there's just no way I'd pay for it - it would cost me at least $400 for the job + $100 or more in shipping, and because I have several computers it's really easy to pop in a CD then go to work on another PC. Glad it worked out for you though. ;-)
Thats because you are never *not* in front of a computer. :lol:

[Paul Martin]

Audio CDs are compressed by about 50%, and so generally take up 300-400 MB on disk.

Is that per CD? Depending on the size of your CD collection, sounds like an easy way to fill up a terrabyte of data! How large of an HD do you need?

[Darius Wey]

I'm halfway through re-ripping mine and I'm not sure if I want to continue. I'm finding Windows Media Player to be a real annoyance in more ways than one (screwy online database, the occassional tag problem, this and that). Should I continue or should I wait for v11?

I could use iTunes, but it hasn't been designed to play nicely with Media Center. Decisions, decisions, decisions... :roll:

[Paul Martin]

Story link changed. Here's the new link (http://www.wired.com/news/technology/internet/0,69098-0.html) to the story.

[sojourner753]

The first time I ripped my CD library, I used iTunes. I can't remember the bitrate. I was either AAC 128 or the one below that. Whatever the default setting was when the 10GB iPod was on its last leg.

Then I realized that I was close to the line of device lock in. So I re-ripped my library into MP3 192.

I think I started to use some other media manager (maybe WMP10 or WinAmp), but there something about the way my library was being organized that I didn't like. So I went back and used iTunes to re-rip. But still MP3.

I then discovered MediaMonkey and used it to download the album art. It had the highest hit ratio when compared to WMP. I don't know where MS is looking for the album info. :roll:

[Tim Williamson]

I still use good old CDEX with the LAME MP3 encoder using 128kbps-320kbps VBR encoding. My CD's come out to be around 100 MBs and I don't hear any noticeable artifacts.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/cdexos/

Then I use the Album Cover Art Download to download and embed the covers into the ID3 tags.

http://freshmeat.net/projects/albumart/

I still encode as MP3 because they can be played on digital music device out there.

[gibson042]

Audio CDs are compressed by about 50%, and so generally take up 300-400 MB on disk.

Is that per CD? Depending on the size of your CD collection, sounds like an easy way to fill up a terrabyte of data! How large of an HD do you need?
s/Audio/Music (talking albums like recorded stand-up comedy compress by about 60% and take 240-320 MB, but ballpark figures are unaffected)

Yes, that is per CD and hard drive space can fill up quite quickly if you are zealous about ripping. I have ripped about 75% of my very modest CD collection, resulting in 1357 FLAC files taking up 38.2 GB of my 120 GB data hard drive. I have another 9.6 GB of lossy files, mostly 128 to 192 kbps MP3 with a smattering of roughly 128 kbps WMA and a handful of roughly 100 kbps Ogg Vorbis. I re-rip (and add to my music collection) at a slow enough rate that bigger hard drives will compensate for the large storage requirements, and of course any improvements in lossless compression can be retroactively applied.

That 1 TB you mentioned would hold about 3000 CDs in FLAC, and could be had for $500. I would guess that most people with 3000 CD collections could save up for that, if not afford it outright. 1000 CDs would need 350 GB ($200), and 500 would need 200 GB ($100). The tradeoff ultimately rests with each individual, but for me (a discriminating music listener with technical inclinations) FLAC is a great solution.

[Jason Dunn]

Ripping lossless is a very interesting idea, and ultimately it gives you the best of both worlds: digital form yet still super high quality. And with WMP10 having the ability to transcode audio when synching to a digital audio player

What are the options for lossless? FLAC, WMA Lossless, Monkey Audio...anything else? What about mass transcoding tools - which format is the most flexible with those?

[Paul Martin]

Thanks for the "real-world" examples, gibson042. Since my collection is no where near 3000 CD's, I think my current HD could handle it. ;) With great deals on hard drives, I suppose it might be easy to have one reserved just for the music collection. I think I'll go check out FLAC...Thanks!

[AKBishop]

I ripped my collection into WMA Lossless then immediately transcoded them WMA VBR. I burned the WMA Losless to DVDs (it only took about 30 DVDs) and then deleted it from my hard drive to save space.

Now I know I have a bit-perfect (perfect enough for me) copy of all my CDs and I don't have to worry about scratched discs, etc.

The process of ripping was painful and time-consuming due to misinformation and missing information in the WMP music database, though. I'm tempted to put my backup discs in a fire-safe box just so I don't have to worry about losing my music in case of fire. :-)

[jeff]

I ripped my collection into WMA Lossless then immediately transcoded them WMA VBR. I burned the WMA Losless to DVDs (it only took about 30 DVDs) and then deleted it from my hard drive to save space.

Now I know I have a bit-perfect (perfect enough for me) copy of all my CDs and I don't have to worry about scratched discs, etc.


Make copies of those discs every year or so. I don't know how long DVD media lasts, but from my experience burned CDs typically start degrading and showing data errors after a couple years.

[sub_tex]

I'm in the process of ripping my stuff to FLAC to archive on DVD. For my portable, I rip at q9 or higher ogg. Anything lower and I can hear issues when I use good headphones or hook up my player to the stereo.

I wish good quality music or even lossless was a reality at small file sizes. My 20 gig player isn't cutting it any more. I've got it filled to the brim and I'm not even close to touching my entire music collection. :(

[Jason Dunn]

Make copies of those discs every year or so. I don't know how long DVD media lasts, but from my experience burned CDs typically start degrading and showing data errors after a couple years.

Well, DVDs will last longer than a couple of years, but I really only trust hard drives for long-term storage, which presents a problem when I think about how much storage I'll need to store all my CDs in a lossless format. :?

[Tim Williamson]

...but I really only trust hard drives for long-term storage...

And hard drives can't always be trusted either. At work, we have RAID setup, two drives were used as failover drives in case one of the main ones failed. Both drives ended up failing when it tried switching over to them. This was in a 5 year-old server mind you.

***long quote edited by moderator JD***

[gibson042]

What are the options for lossless? FLAC, WMA Lossless, Monkey Audio...anything else? What about mass transcoding tools - which format is the most flexible with those?
There is also lossless AAC, but overall I think you'll be happiest with WMA lossless due to the difficulty of using others with WMP. I haven't yet found a good mass transcoder, but my guess is that lossless format handling will come in three flavors (ordered by decreasing likelihood):
Only WMA or only AAC
both FLAC and Monkey's Audio
All four codecs
And if anyone does know of a good mass transcoder (hopefully one that handles FLAC), could they please let me know?

[Paul Martin]

gibson042, what do you use to convert with FLAC? I've downloaded the codec, and the FLAC frontend, but the settings are a little cryptic. What settings/program do you use? Thanks!

[gibson042]

For dealing with small numbers of files (like a multi-track WAV or something), I just use the FLAC frontend. For whole CDs, I rip them straight into FLAC from EAC, using "external compression" with flac.exe and arguments --best -V -T "artist=%a" -T "album=%g" -T "title=%t" -T "date=%y" -T "tracknumber=%n" -T "genre=%m" --replay-gain -o %d %s. This uses maximum compression, verifies the results, adds proper metadata, and tags the tracks with ReplayGain to allow for volume normalization without distorting the raw audio data.

I use flac --help to double check arguments, and I modify metadata with metaflac (also with its --help). If you have any other questions, I'd be happy to help you out here or through PM.

[jayplay]

Try www.pickledproductions.com to do your CD conversion. I can't speak for the others services. I was also stuck between whether to do it myself or pay someone else to do it. Some sites are charging over $1 per CD. I have 250 CDs and couldn't find myself paying $250. A friend of mine got a coupon for 10% off and the service only charges 70 cents a CD. I was concerned about the quality but with the coupon I decided to try it. Everything worked out perfect and I am so glad I did it. I now have my entire collection on MP3 and everything was right on. Two additional notes. If you are lucky to live within their local area (which unfortunately I was not) you can get your CDs ripped for 45 cents per CD which is a real bargain. Also at checkout time you can enter this code (110269018) and get the same 10% off I did. Another friend of mine tried it and it worked for him also. The coupon only says one per household. Good luck!