Are There Any Real NAS Drives Out There?

[Jason Dunn]

I've been doing some research on network attached storage drives lately, and I'm really disappointed by what I'm finding. I want to try and centralize all my digital media - photos, music, videos - and other data, on a NAS drive. I want it to have a lot of storage, and be fast. That means something that allows me to use more than one hard drive, and something that has gigabit Ethernet connections. I also want it to be an FTP server if possible, and something aimed at the consumer market (which means affordable). What I've found has been discouraging.

At first I thought the DNS-120 from D-Link (http://www.dlink.ca/product.php?PID=244) looked like a great contender. It offered no built-in storage, instead having two USB 2.0 ports so I could attach any two drives that I wanted. It has a built-in FTP server, and is price around $100 USD. The problems? It's 100 megabit only, and worst of all, only supports FAT and FAT32 drives. If you recall my rant about the Western Digital drive (http://www.digitalmediathoughts.com/articles.php?action=expand,8737) that has the same problem, you'll know FAT32 means a limit of 4GB per file - so no large files. NTFS would solve the problem, but it seems right now the best the device can do is read NTFS drives, no writer to them. I called D-Link to confirm this, and a helpful retail channel manager dug a bit deeper and confirmed with the product manager confirmed that anything based on embedded Linux (and they're ALL based on embedded Linux it seems) will have this problem. The DNS-120 doesn't support ext2 or ext3<!>, which is a Linux file system that supports larger partitions and file sizes, and would seem to be what I need.

I also looked at the NETGEAR Storage Central (http://www.netgear.com/products/details/SC101.php), which looked like a great device - it has room inside it for two hard drives, uses a custom file format to allow large files, and is quite affordable ($99 USD or so). It's only 100 megabit though, which isn't surprising at this price point. Most of the reviews I've read (http://reviews.cnet.com/NetGear_SC101_Storage_Central/4505-3382_7-31470528-2.html?tag=nav) are quite positive, so I was getting ready to buy one. But after reading user reviews like this (http://reviews.cnet.com/NetGear_SC101_Storage_Central/4864-3382_7-31470528.html?ctype=msgid&messageSiteID=7&messageID=1439822&cval=1439822&tag=uolst) and forum threads like this (http://forum1.netgear.com/support/viewtopic.php?t=15133&sid=eb4bf5a264d4145be6d306e00c42bdde) it sounds like a product that was really badly implemented.

So once again I'm back to square one - any suggestions on a product that might meet my needs? I think I might be a bit ahead of the curve in terms of what I'm looking for - this new product from D-Link (http://www.dlink.com/products/?pid=377) is getting closer to what I want by offering Gigabit, but it doesn't seem to support ext3 which I need.

[bcre8v2]

I have been playing around with this for a few years, and while there are large NAS drives available (Maxtor and LaCie), I am leaning towards something akin to a Tivo hack that let's me access all stored content from any computer on my network (stored on the Tivo!)

There are many sites dedicated to doing this and what's funny is the fact that a new Tivo can be purchased for under $50.00 USD. All I'll need to do is add 2 large drives, add the ftp client, and manage the directory structure.
But alas, the network speed may still be limited to 100 Mbps.

Just my investigative 2 cents.
If anyone has other creative ideas, please share!

-Steve

[JTWise]

This is by no means the perfect solution, but what about the Linksys's NSLU2? It seems to have specs similar to the DNS-120. The main downfall of the system seems to be speed of transfer, definitely slower that it should be. I think it does everything else you need either out of the box or with hacked firmware and does native ext2. Like I said, my only disappointment is the speed.


The main problem with this type of product IMHO is that the manufacturers really don't update the firmware and fix the bugs the way they should. They seem to think "hey, we need a NSA solution, let's throw something together so we can say we offer it and then not update it." The guy was wrong about the embedded Linux comment, the NSLU has it and it does ext2, so it might be a limitation of D-Link's use of embedded Linux but not a linux limitation itself.

The good news is that you can pick it up cheap (less than US$75), so it might be worth a shot.

[dkackman]

I've got the SimpleTech SimpleShare which I like pretty well. It come in 3 flavors: 160, 250, and 400GB capacity. I'm not sure what FS it uses for the internal drive but it does support NTFS on connected USB drives (of which I believe it supports 2); not sure about ext, but with an SMB interface, NTFS vs ext shouldn't matter.

The management interface is quite nice and supports SMB directly. It's also got a built in domain controller (should you want one), supports RAID 0 or 1 and a print server.

The only thing it's missing in my book is a Gigbit ethernet interface. Aside from that I've been very happy with this appliance (which I use it both from Windows XP and Linux).

don

[fmcpherson]

I use the Linksys NLSU2 with a Maxtor USB 2.0 drive (160 GB) and unfortunately I can not recommend it. The main problem that I have is that for some reason on occasion it thinks all users have read-only access to the files. At one point I called Linksys and there conclusion is that the disk had become corrupt and advised me to reformat. I wasn't too excited to that so I just shut it off for a while, and then for some strange reason, when I turned it back on the problem went away and I could read/write files. Then again, after another power cycle due to a power outage it was back to read-oinly, and I repeated another power cycle again to get it back to read/write.

Definitely flaky at best. so I wouldn't recommend it.

I would be curious to know whether any of the NAS devices like this Linksys uses Firewire instead of USB 2?

[Jason Dunn]

I'm not sure what FS it uses for the internal drive but it does support NTFS on connected USB drives

Really? If so, that's great! I went to their site and couldn't find any concrete information about what it supports. You have NTFS drives connected to it now?

[Jason Dunn]

I would be curious to know whether any of the NAS devices like this Linksys uses Firewire instead of USB 2?

I think Firewire is pretty much dead outside the realm of video cameras. It's a pity, because Firewire 400 outperforms USB 2.0 in tests I did a couple of years ago.

[JohnC]

Have you had a look at the Buffalo LinkStation

http://www.buffalotech.com/products/product-detail.php?productid=105&amp;categoryid=22

I've used this for a while now and it has been reliable.

JC

[yada88]

If it were me, I would take an old pc sitting around the house, throw in 2 hard drives and a gig ethernet card, and use that.

Jeff

[Jason Eaton]

I like the spare PC comment above. Thats what I use. =)

If your looking at NAS perhaps the LaCie group have something for you.

http://www.lacie.com/products/product.htm?pid=10594

This model has all the usuals but also has the ability to be formated in what they call Extend 3. That gives you access to the large single file sizes but with one catch, Extend 3 is network only and you will not be able to pull it off and connect USB. If your only concerned about network only and not moving from computer to computer maybe this fits the bill. The price is a little much... but only thing I have seen so far (then again I haven't seen everything :D )

[Jason Kravitz]

I was just researching an alternative to the buffalo product over the weekend (after hearing from some co-workers that the buffalo is a decent product but kind of slow plus they had some drive crashes).

I stumbled on the Infrant ReadyNAS products and am likely going to purchase one. I wish the price was a bit cheaper but...
http://infrant.com/products_ReadyNAS600.htm

The Toms Networking review is pretty informative
http://www.tomsnetworking.com/Reviews-217-ProdID-H2H5-1.php

[Jason Dunn]

I stumbled on the Infrant ReadyNAS products and am likely going to purchase one. I wish the price was a bit cheaper but...

Looks great, but $1100 USD just for the device + the cost of several hard drives puts it out of my desire - I just don't need it that badly.

I guess ultimately the trickle-down effect means something like that will be around 24 months from now for $200. ;-)

[Jason Dunn]

If it were me, I would take an old pc sitting around the house, throw in 2 hard drives and a gig ethernet card, and use that

I've done that in the past, and am doing that now in fact, but I want to move away from a PC model - where so many things can go wrong - to more of a pure-purpose model of a box that will be more stable than a full PC. Right now for instance I have a backup drive, an FTP server, and my Media Center PC all on one box - so when I have to reboot for a Windows patch, I lose a lot of functionality. Or, hell, when hardware goes bad (like that video card) I'm down an FTP server among other things.

So a pure-purpose NAS drive is still what I'm after.

[Jason Kravitz]

I believe it is $1100 with a terabyte 4x250gb configuration
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16833329005

It is still way pricier than the $100 devices you were looking at but is likely a much more advanced product. You get what you pay for. In essence this is like buying a server which would cost $500-$1000 (depending on which drives you use etc) to build something similar and the software will not be as single purpose as this class of NAS.

[Jason Dunn]

I believe it is $1100 with a terabyte 4x250gb configuration

Aha, ok then, that's a different story! $1100 for the NAS and 1000 GB of storage isn't bad at all...

[Jason Kravitz]

Aha, ok then, that's a different story! $1100 for the NAS and 1000 GB of storage isn't bad at all...

Nope - not bad at all :)

The Buffalo drive is about $770 at NewEgg but the ReadyNAS seems to have a few features and performance improvements (according to the Tom's Networking reviews)

[klinux]

So a pure-purpose NAS drive is still what I'm after.

Yes I hear you and I did the same looking too and unfortunately there is really nothing out there. I am building a gigabit box which I can throw in 6x200GB drives (hopefully in a RAID 5 config) in which I can do the same things you are doing (media, backup etc).

[Kursplat]

The ReadyNAS is $600 w/o drives. I did find a company selling them for $575, but nothing cheaper yet.

The nice thing is, you can start with just one drive and add more as you go. It automatically adjusts as the new drives are added.

For example, throw in 1 250GB disk and you have 250GB space (minus overhead). Add a 2nd 250GB disk and you have 250GB mirrored space. Add a 3rd and you have 500GB RAID5 space. Add the 4th and you have 750GB RAID5 space.

Down the road, to upgrade to larger disks, just pull out a 250 and replace it with a 500GB disk. After it rebuilds its data, repeat the process for the other 3 disks. Eventually, you will have all drives replaced with 500GB disks, it will extend to use the full space, and you didn't have to go through the backup/blow away/rebuild/restore process.

With Gigabit, wireless support, FTP, print server, Snapshots, UPS monitoring, etc, it is a very tempting tasty little device. Some coworkers and I are itching to buy them. Now to try for a group discount. :)

Probably the best page to read to see all of the features it has is http://www.infrant.com/learn_features.htm

I drool everytime I read it. :)

The only think I don't know about is large files (over 4GB). I certainly hope that isn't a problem since it would make me reconsider the purchase.

[Jason Dunn]

Yeah, the ReadyNAS really does seem to be a killer device. I think in the new year I'll look at getting one - maybe they'll send me a review unit so I can let everyone know more about it. 8)

Thanks for all the help everyone, this is exactly what I was hoping for. It's great having access to a smart community of users.

[Kursplat]

I just found a post in their forums by their admin:

The max file size that the NAS can handle is 1TB

There ya go. I can't seem to find a problem with the ReadyNAS.....

[Jason Dunn]

1TB file size? Sweetness.

[Stillwater]

Have you checked out the Netgear SC101 box? It lists for $150 CDN
and can takes two Parallel ATA Drives. I've been looking to purchase one of these for a backup drive at our church. I haven't found anything near this price range for this type of storage device.

[dkackman]

I'm not sure what FS it uses for the internal drive but it does support NTFS on connected USB drives

Really? If so, that's great! I went to their site and couldn't find any concrete information about what it supports. You have NTFS drives connected to it now?

I do. This was a drive that used be conneced to my BTV media server and has all of my archived movies and captured TV shows.

The device does make a distinction between "native" and "foreign" USB devices. Native basically means that the device owns and has formatted the device. As far as I understand it, this means its contents are not accessible except through the NAS (were you to plug it into another machine).

Foreign means formatted by another OS. If memory serves foreign drives can't take part in RAID set-ups but remain portable. I think they are otherwise fully accesible via SMB.

There is a very good review here:
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=23586

don

[Gremlin]

Not exactly portable, but it's the best "NAS" device around imo

http://lime-technology.com/

Theres a big thread over on avsforum on just how the software works etc and how you can build your own one with just spare hardware.

[Crocuta]

I'm not sure what FS it uses for the internal drive but it does support NTFS on connected USB drives

Really? If so, that's great! I went to their site and couldn't find any concrete information about what it supports. You have NTFS drives connected to it now?


There is a very good review here:
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=23586

don

The review says it support NTFS only in read-only mode. (Emphasis added.)

"The shares created by SimpleShare for legacy disks are referred to as "Foreign Shares". SimpleShare’s legacy disk support function makes it easy to attach a USB disk formatted with FAT or NTFS and share its files with other users on the network, with the following restrictions: 1) Disks formatted with NTFS are read-only. 2) Only share level access controls are provided for foreign shares. User base security, domain member and domain controller security controls are not provided for foreign shares. 3) "Legacy" (fat32/ntfs) disks cannot be used for of mirroring. 4) Legacy disks cannot be used for striping. "

[DimensionZero]

The nice thing is, you can start with just one drive and add more as you go. It automatically adjusts as the new drives are added.

For example, throw in 1 250GB disk and you have 250GB space (minus overhead). Add a 2nd 250GB disk and you have 250GB mirrored space. Add a 3rd and you have 500GB RAID5 space. Add the 4th and you have 750GB RAID5 space.

Man, this is sweet, but it looks like that feature can only be found on the ReadyNAS X6. At least that's the feeling I get from their feature comparison thing

http://www.infrant.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7650

[Kursplat]

BTW, I purchased one of the Infrant X6's in January. If arrived the first week of February. I would definitely recommend the unit.

You now how we've come to accept that any electronic gadget we buy will become old news within 6 months? You have come to accept that, right? Well, I had to severe shock to my system when that 6 months turned into 48 hours. 8O

My unit arrived on a Monday. That Wednesday, Infrant's web site announced their new version with faster processor, hot-swappable locking drives, front USB port, and smaller footprint to boot. I won't bore you with why I didn't just return it.

The older model (if they're still selling it) can be found for less then $600. The newer model lists for about $50 more, but I don't know how cheap you can find them. I picked up 4 400GB SATA drives for about $205 a piece. You can find cheaper prices per GB on the 200's and 320's, 50¢/GB with no rebate hassles to have 1+ TB of space.... I couldn't pass it up.