Can the Sharp LC-45GD7U display 1080p?

[Suhit Gupta]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.sharpusa.com/products/ModelLanding/0,1058,1592,00.html' target='_blank'>http://www.sharpusa.com/products/ModelLanding/0,1058,1592,00.html</a><br /><br /></div>So I have a question for you all... I have been getting conflicting reports so I figured I can ask around. I have decided on getting either the Sharp LC-45GD7U 45" LCD TV or the Sony 40" XBR. While the Sony has slightly more vibrant colors, I like the fact that the Sharp can do native 1080p, at least that is what the Sharp folks say and so do most product infomation blurbs online. However, I was at the local Magnolia Hi Fi and I got a different report. Apparently, they just had a customer return that TV because apparently 1080p was not doable on that TV. The guy helping me seemed really knowledgeable, which is why I am even doubting this.<br /><br />Now normally I would trust reviews and the vendor. But there are currently no reviews on this TV as it is so new. Also, I am a little weary of Sharp because the lady I spoke with sounded a lot like a yes-person. So I wanted to ask you, do you know if this TV supports 1080p? You can search for it online as well and/or let me know if you find something out. Thanks.

[yada88]

I just have a few thoughts I thought i'd share with you. As an editor, I'm sure you know, but what they heck.

Nothing is in 1080p, nor will it likely be for a while. If your LCD tv does 1080p, doesn't that mean that when it's doing 720p, it's not going to look as good, as its tweaked to do 1080? Therefore, the majority of the content which is 720p would look worse, not better on a TV that's 1080p native resolution on the LCD.

[Suhit Gupta]

Well, as far as I understand, the experience is not as bad as doing a non-native resolution with computers on LCD monitors, i.e. you can see the blurriness when going to any resolution other than the native one. But yeah, I know of the issue and I saw what 720p on the TV looks like and it is quite nice. Only the Sony 40" XBR looks better and it is only a slight improvement, something I am willing to give up for the bigger size and the 1080p, if that is supported. Therefore this thread. :)

Suhit

[PJE]

From what I have read the Sharp is 1080P internally, i.e. it scales to 1080P for display.

It can't however accept a 1080P input directly like the 37" Westinghouse display which works as a very nice 1920x1080 computer monitor. I think one issue is the ICs used on the DVI/HDMI input - 1080P requires a higher bandwidth than 720P or 1080i, and the Sharp chips probably can't accept this higher bandwidth.

Until the 1080P marketplace settles down I bought a 1366x768 (I would have acutally prefered 1280x720) Syntax Olevia 37" LCD for $1000 which should do me nicely until a nice 42" 1080P set turns up for $1000 :D

PJE

[Felix Torres]

Short answer, probably; very likely it can be *made* to happen.
Long answer?

See below...

Nothing is in 1080p, nor will it likely be for a while. If your LCD tv does 1080p, doesn't that mean that when it's doing 720p, it's not going to look as good, as its tweaked to do 1080? Therefore, the majority of the content which is 720p would look worse, not better on a TV that's 1080p native resolution on the LCD.

Ah, the 1080-wars hit DMT! :lol:

Hope the editor doesn't mind me taking a step back here:

- For starters, the majority of HD content out there is distributed as 1080i, not 720p.

- Except for Fox, ABC, and ESPN most HD content is broadcast as 1080.

- That content is usually produced at 1440 by 1080 or better, usually a full 1920x1080 24/30. Most *new* content is being produced at 1080p or better. Yes, better. Quad-HD is on the distant horizon so smart content providers are taking measures to ensure their product remain viable as long as possible.

- Upscaling works. Long technical debate about *why* but it works. If even 480i DVD content improves when properly processed up to 1080, why wouldn't 720? You're simply exploiting implicit spatial data available in the stream. Going in the opposite dirrection throws away spatial data. So, even granting spatial data isn't everything, it *is* a whole big chunk of the HD story.

- 1080p-native displays are best for 1080i sources because no scaling is involved, "just" deinterlacing. See below for a monster of a caveat that applies to *all* HD displays, especially the non-1080p models.

- The majority of the HD displays on the market are *not* 720p anyway, they are either WXGA (1366x768) LCDs and Plasma, stretched XGA (1280 by 768) LCDs, stretched VGA PLasmas (1024x768) and lord-knows-what CRTs. True 720p-native displays is, oddly enough, primarily the domain of micro-displays (DLPs, LCoS, or 3LCD) and mid-sized plasma displays.

What is most important is to remember is that ATSC is a *transmission-format* specification at heart. And that the spec only talks of horizontal lines of resolution. (Taken literally, a 2x720 matrix would constitute a 720p image.) The spec was drafted by a committee of a zillion folks, each with their own sacred cow and agenda so there are tons of Greenland-sized ambiguities *purposefully* inserted to achieve passage of the original spec. What it does *not* do is address the manner and resolution at which that HD-formatted data is to be displayed.

As a result, the display of HD content has several mileposts along the way from recording studio to viewer eyeball:

- First, it has to be recorded in an HD-compatible format. Some older HD cameras did *not* record the full 1920 pixels required to fill the 1080 lines specified in the spec with square pixels.

- Second, it has to be transmitted to the receiver or STB at something resembling the original filmed resolution. Certain satellite HD channels have been at times (still are being?) transmitted at 1280x1080 to save bandwidth.

- Third, the display unit has to accept a signal in the given format. This is what Mr Gupta is inquiring about. The ability of the latest Sharp LCD panel to accept a full-resolution, square-pixel 1080p signal. It is not only a valid question (often the answer is NO!) but an increasingly critical and touchy one because it relates not the display's native capability, but to the decisions taken by the manufacturer in building the electronics that feed the panel.

- Finally, the display unit has to map out the incoming data stream onto the panel's native resolution. This brings out issues of image processing (deinterlacing, upscaling, downscaling) and overscan. Yes, overscan, that old vestige of the CRT era lives on in the digital display era, so that some (most?) displays purposefully hide the edges of the incoming image (ranging from 2% to 5% of the total area) and then stretch the remainder to fit onto the display's native matrix.

And this brings us to the issue of 1080p displays.

Some folks think in terms of signal compatibility and pooh-pooh the emergence of 1080p native displays because *their* old (insert brand of choice, ussually Pioneer, JVC, or Hitachi) display has had that for years, the ability to accept a 1920 by 1080 24/30/60 fps signal source. Of course, the fact that that signal was then downscaled and mapped to a 720-class or XGA-class native display gets quietly swept under the rug.

Conversely, some recent vintage 1080p native displays do *not* actually accept 1080p signals at all. They do have a full 1080p native display resolution, but the highest signal they accept is 1080i. (in some cases, their DVI/HDMI chipsets don't implement the full bandwidth of the spec, in other cases the vendor is waiting for the HDMI 1.3 spec in late 06 to support 10-bit 1080p channels.)They merely map lower bandwidth formats to the full HD matrix. And this is a good thing, make no mistake about it. But it falls short of what a real-world user might expect out of such a display.

Finally, we come to the reality of the current state of the art, displays that are 1080p-native and can accept a full 1080p signal. Sometimes. Through the right port. In some cases, only if the stars are properly aligned. ;-)
And some, a very few, that can do the job exactly right, no muss, no fuss. True plug-n-play. Yes, it does exist. But finding such a display requires research cause the retailer won't tell you and most manufacturers blanche at the question. There be legal dragons down that road; lawsuit potential.
Very, very, long story and a still-developing one.

As to the Sharp, my best guess, and a guess it is; is that yes, it will *probably* accept a 1080p/60 signal from a PC. Most of the older 46" Sharps can do it, one way or another.

Some of the older models with the external AVBox can be hardwarehacked by by-passing the AV box.

Some of the newer ones can by made to work properly by, believe it or not, changing the HDMI/DVI input setting from PC to TV. Really obvious, huh? I've seen folks report success and full 1-to-1 mapping of the PC display with no overscan this way and by tweaking the video card output.

Unless you can wait for enough folks to get their hands on LC-45GD7U for word to filter out, maybe you'd best deal with a vendor with a lenient return policy? ;-)
That way you can see for yourself.

Now, having addressed that issue, let me warn you of the latest dragon to rear its ugly head, in case you hadn't heard.

It has recently been reported that the image processing chips in many HD displays, both old and recent vintage, do not, repeat, do *not* properly deinterlace 1080i signals. Apparently they process fields individually instead of doing a proper frame weave *before* downscaling or displaying. Which is to say they effectively process 1080 content at 1920x540. Presumably, this answers the longstanding mystery of why otherwise knowledgeable folks have sworn for years that 720p looked better than 1080i; they weren't actually looking at even downscaled 1080i. They were looking at 1080 content bobbed to 540 and then upscaled to 720 or 768. Whoops!

Word is, the latest chipsets from Genesis Faroudja and Pixelworks do the job properly. (Fortunately the Westinghouse 37" is so equipped. Whew!)

The previous Sharp 46" model, the LC-45GX6U was reported as passing the static display test but failing the motion test, when set at factory default values, as were all the tested sets in the preliminary report in the December '05 Issue of THE PERFECT VISION, page 14. ;-)

Follow up reports online suggest the LC-45GX6U can be made test-compliant by changing its "Deinterlacing" setting from fast to slow.

This is the same model that can be made to properly display 1080p so one hopes Sharp has seen fit to equip the newer model with at least equal capabilities.

Whew.
Sorry to run on like this but 1080p video is something I've recently been researching and it is a highly-charged subject that leads to flame wars like nothing this side of PCs vs Mac, except maybe Amiga-vs-the universe. ;-)

And it is about to get even hotter.
I've noticed that asian vendors are starting to refer to full 1080p-native panels (with proper onboard electronics) as FullHD (I like that) or TrueHD, which is *certain* to raise the hackles of 720p-and-lower panel owners the world over, expecially the plasma folks. Those guys are certainly...aggressive...in defending their chosen display tech, so next time you hear that buzzword, run for cover. 8)

PS: Sharp is getting name-brand competition - From JVC, a 40" 1080p with QAM and cablecard...

http://www.jvc.ca/en/consumer/product-detail.asp?model=LT-40FH96

[Philip Colmer]

And isn't it a good thing we have Felix posting to this site :-).

Thanks, Felix - and please feel free to keep everyone in the loop on what gets released in the future that could qualifiy as a "True HD" display. I for one am looking to get one and if it is as much of as minefield as it sounds, it seems that I'm better off waiting ...

--Philip

[Felix Torres]

And isn't it a good thing we have Felix posting to this site :-).

Thanks, Felix - and please feel free to keep everyone in the loop on what gets released in the future that could qualifiy as a "True HD" display. I for one am looking to get one and if it is as much of as minefield as it sounds, it seems that I'm better off waiting ...

--Philip

Oh, its not *that* deadly!
Just do your research (plenty of good sources online) and don't challenge anybody else's choice of viewing tech or resolution and you'll be safe. ;-)
Just don't tell somebody who dropped $5000 on an XGA Plasma a few years back that its not a real HD or that your $1500 1080p LCD looks great. ;-)

As for when to buy, well, its really up to your own personal cost/benefit analysis. Much like PCs there will *always* be a better tech "down the road a bit" and prices can only fall.
But in the meantime, you could be watching some really amazing video .

Its kinda like power windows in a car; it won't kill you to do without.

But its sooo nice to have it... ;-)

[Suhit Gupta]

It can't however accept a 1080P input directly like the 37" Westinghouse display which works as a very nice 1920x1080 computer monitor. I think one issue is the ICs used on the DVI/HDMI input - 1080P requires a higher bandwidth than 720P or 1080i, and the Sharp chips probably can't accept this higher bandwidth.
That is almost what the guy at Magnolia said. So is there a workaround?

Suhit

[Felix Torres]

That is almost what the guy at Magnolia said. So is there a workaround?

Suhit

Like I said, the previous model will apparently accept 1080p video is you switch the HDMI port *away* from the PC setting to a TV/Video setting.

Does you retailer have a no-questions asked return policy?
You could take it home and try it for yourself if that's the only thing holding you back.

Just make sure you report back here if it works. ;-)

Somebody is going to have to be the guinea pig, you know... :twisted:

[Suhit Gupta]

Well, I spoke with the Sharp guys again this morning and they are adamant about the fact that the TV will show 1080p is I pipe in the correct signal on HDMI, DVI and/or component.

I went to the store and they didn't have a device that could output 1080p. So I brought my laptop to the store, and they didn't have the cables to connect the TV and laptop (neither do I, all my stuff is still in storage from when I was moving). I tried connecting the TV's iLink port it to the i-Link port of the laptop but couldn't figure out how to get it to display... I am guessing that video doesn't go over firewire?

Felix, I read your posts and after reading a zillion posts on the net and getting advice from more people that ever, it looks like I will be able to get 1080p on the TV if I do have the right signal going in. The problem is that I have nothing to test it with, even if I bring the TV home. So I guess I will have to get one of those DVD players that upscales the signal or some such, but I feel that I will not need any other changes on the TV side of things, i.e. it is equipped just fine now. I think?! :?

Suhit

PS - Before anyone asks the question of why I am getting a device with 1080p if I don't even have anything to test it with? - it is because I want it to not be obsolete soon. 1080p will be out soon enough and I would not want to be forced to buy yet another TV at that time.

[trcns]

I read all the notes that were posted in 2005 about this TV. I bought this TV in 2006 and since now we have Blue Ray DVD player which can send the 1080P signal to this TV, can the sharp LC 45GD7U display 1080P?
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I just bought Sony BDP-S500 Blue Ray DVD player which is connected to this TV with Monster Ultra 1000 HDMI cable. If I leave the format on the DVD to Auto, all I get is “Output 1080/60i Source 1080/24P” I guess, which means its 1080i. If I force the DVD player to 1080P then I get an error message “In compatible signal” I called Sony and they said DVD player is sending the signal in 1080P but your TV is not capable of displaying it in 1080P. So when I called Sharp the tech said the TV is 1080P compatible. Also when I switch to DVD from my TV input selections, it shows HDMI 1080i, which I don’t know why if it is 1080P compatible. Can some one help?

[Jason Dunn]

... which can send the 1080P signal to this TV, can the sharp LC 45GD7U display 1080P?
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And this is why pasting from Word is a bad idea. ;) Please just type your responses in the text box.

[kg7505]

I just bought a sony 350 blu ray disk player and my Sharp will not accept the 1080p signal. I called Sharp and they confirmed that this model will not broadcast in 1080p, 1080i is the highest resolution.