Which TV Should I Buy?

[Suhit Gupta]

I think, I hope, you all remember my tale of woe regarding my TV from a couple of years ago. In case you don't, here is the story that I wrote (http://www.digitalmediathoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5944&highlight=). Anyways, since I was moving, I sold all my stuff - my furniture, most of my appliances, and, my TV. Of course, I barely got 15% of the original $1600 that I paid for it, but at least it is gone.

Now, I do not want to make that mistake again. I would like to stay at around a $2K budget (slightly flexible), would prefer to get an LCD TV, would want the best picture quality possible and would like it to be as large (screen size ;-) ) as possible. But two very important criteria - 1) it should be hassle free; and 2) it should be feature rich.

So I need you help. Give me advice, tell me your horror stories, tell me which TV you love and which one/s you hate, and definitely tell me which TV you wished you had bought instead of the one you ended up getting. Also, if you think there is any material/reviews I should definitely read, then feel free to point it out as well.

[mghannigan]

Perhaps a little more information about your planned uses for the tv is necessary:Media Center PC?
HD cable or satelitte?
Video game system?
Size of room?
Speakers needed?
Willing to buy a non-name brand?

[PJE]

I'm currently looking for a new TV in the 37" to 42" area and circa $2000.

The options seem to be:

37" No name LCD running 1920x1080P - The Westinghouse LVM-37W1 seems to be typical, and is the only one confirmed to handle 1080P input on its DVI connector.

37" Name brand LCD running 1366x768

42" HD Plasma - although in the $2K limit would limit choice to a 1024x768 model from a less well known brand.

DLP/LCos/LCD rear projector set.

It all depends on what your using it for, and how important a computer connection is. Will you be using an HD source, as a lot of the HD sets don't look as good as the ED sets for basic TV input.

PJE

[Suhit Gupta]

Well, I would want the option of being able to connect to a Media Center PC though I wouldn't be getting one at this time (budget problems). Anyways, that shouldn't matter because I still want all the RCA, DVI, HD, HDMI, etc. etc. connectors. Haven't decided on cable or satellite, but definitely HD. Yes on the video game systems, though again, that shouldn't matter.

I don't know what the size of my room is going to be because I just started apartment hunting (still in temporary housing). I am pretty sure that a 65" TV is out, :) but I think 45" is doable. Good question on the speakers - if the TV doesn't come with really good ones, I will end up getting a separate set. I would prefer that the TV has fantastic sound so I can wait for a while until I can save up and then buy a good set of surround sound ones. And no, no no-name brands please, unless there is a really compelling reason.

Suhit

[Felix Torres]

What size was your last TV?
What distance did you normally watch it at?
What size room?
What do you use it for? (DVDs, Gaming, HTPC, etc)
What input sources do you have? Cable Set-top box? Satellite? OTA HD?
What peripherals do you have/intend to get and how do they hook up?
(connector pack is crucial).
How picky are you? ;-)

You may not be aware of it but your stated price range ($2K+/-10%) is pretty much the heart of the HD market for this year's holiday season and you can get pretty much *anything* ranging from 1080p LCD to 60+ inch microdisplay monsters monsters. But there are trade-off to be made.

There is no such thing as *the* TV to get.

In fact, the best HD display option might not be a TV at all.

So you need to do a little bit of pruning or you'll still be doing research by the time the next CES show comes along. :wink:

[Suhit Gupta]

Most of the questions are answered above. Previous TV was 32". For more details, look at the link that that pasted... it will tell all in excruciating detail.

I watch from about 10-15 feet away from the TV. I sold all my peripherals but obviously there will be a cable/satellite box, and a DVD player. Plus a few game devices.

I am pretty sure I am looking for an LCD TV though. Again, unless there is a compelling reason for me not to.

Suhit

[Suhit Gupta]

So you need to do a little bit of pruning or you'll still be doing research by the time the next CES show comes along. :wink:
So I was looking at the various Sharp Aquos TVs which I liked. The 45" are a bit expensive but their resolution rocks. Basically I started this thread hoping to get an idea of what kinds of TVs other people are buying and what experiences they have with theirs.

Suhit

[Felix Torres]

Most of the questions are answered above. Previous TV was 32". For more details, look at the link that that pasted... it will tell all in excruciating detail.

I watch from about 10-15 feet away from the TV. I sold all my peripherals but obviously there will be a cable/satellite box, and a DVD player. Plus a few game devices.

I am pretty sure I am looking for an LCD TV though. Again, unless there is a compelling reason for me not to.

Suhit

The viewing distance is important because of apparent resolution.
At 10-15 feet even ED plasmas will appear sharp but at 6-8 feet they wouldn't. Unless you're looking at a 1080p display, viewing distance will determine how sharp the image looks, regardless of technology or content format.

Given that distance, if your old TV (SD?) was 36" then you probably do not want anything smaller than 37" and probably want something over 40".
Which right there prunes off a lot of LCD displays.

Here's another way to slice it; do you want something that is as wide as your old set or as tall as the old set? Tall means SD will look a lot like the old set, wide means SD will look smaller but DVDs will be the same size.
If width is your criterion, a 32" LCD would suffice (lots of those under--well under--$2k), if height is your criterion, then you really want something in the 42" or higher range.

Which means a no-name Plasma or a rear-projection unit.

So, upfront, I think you are basically looking at 37" LCDs around $2k. Doable but not overly abundant.
And none are first tier brands, most of which are clustered around $2500.

Basically you're looking at the above-mentioned Westinghouse, Syntax Olevia, Sceptre, and maybe Benq, for LCDs, unless you scale down to 32 inches.

If you go for micro displays, you can easily get 44-50 inches from Toshiba, Hitachi, RCA and Samsung and still meet your price point.

If you prefer plasmas, you're mostly looking at 42" ED unless you move up to $2500 or find a big sale.

One other problem you'll face is that most name-brand models only come with one digital input (HDMI or DVI) and, maybe, two component video inputs. That may or not be sufficient, depending on how many digital sources you need to plan for. "A few game devices" suggests you may have a problem with ports...

As for what I have, well I have the Westinghouse 37" 1080p and it does exactly what I need the way I want it done. No buyer's remorse here.

I would suggest most folks in the market look at it and consider what its existence tells us about where the market is going, but since it is not properly-speaking a TV and it is not a name brand product, I can't vouch for what kind of experience you might have or how well it might fit your needs.

[PJE]

As for what I have, well I have the Westinghouse 37" 1080p and it does exactly what I need the way I want it done. No buyer's remorse here.

I would suggest most folks in the market look at it and consider what its existence tells us about where the market is going, but since it is not properly-speaking a TV and it is not a name brand product, I can't vouch for what kind of experience you might have or how well it might fit your needs.

Hi Felix,

I was looking at the Westinghouse at Best Buy, but they had messed up the settings - which made it look really bad. I played for 2 minutes with the remote and geot it looking pretty good.

I have a couple of questions:

How does standard (non-HD) cable look on it?

I've read that it converts 1080i into 540P and then scales it back to 1080P - is this correct?

Regards,

PJE

[Felix Torres]

I have a couple of questions:

How does standard (non-HD) cable look on it?

I've read that it converts 1080i into 540P and then scales it back to 1080P - is this correct?

Regards,

PJE

1- SD looks fine to me; mostly it depends on whether the source is analog or digital. Digital SD tends to look better. Overall, the onboard upscaler seems to do a good job on SD.
Still, what this display lives for is full 1080 video.
Sometimes I just shake my head in awe at how good it can be when fed the right material.
Now, finding that material is still non-trivial but getting better.
I do find myself watching a lot more travellogs of late. :wink:

2- No, it does not convert 1080 to 540.
Folks get confused because the System Info menu pick reports Field sizes, instead of frame sizes, on interlaced inputs. So it reports 480i as 720 by 240 and 1080i as 1920 by 540. On a progressive input stream, Frames and fields are the same thing but on interlaced displays they're not.

The Faroudja DCDi chip on board is a full motion adaptive de-interlacer which means it builds up the 1080p frame buffer from more than one field instead of just bobbing the input.

The thing has the electronics to accept 1920 by 1080 at 60 frames a second and do a clean one-to-one mapping so it doesn't need to cheat to fill the frame buffer.

So fear not, it is a true 1080p display.

BTW, anybody looking into this display ought to swing by HH Gregg if there is one nearby. Their (sale?!) price is just sickening. :twisted:

[PJE]

So fear not, it is a true 1080p display.

Felix - You've got my Credit Card quaking in it's boots :lol:

PJE

[Felix Torres]

So fear not, it is a true 1080p display.

Felix - You've got my Credit Card quaking in it's boots :lol:

PJE

Mine is still groaning. :wink:
The thing is a money sink; new display, new upscaling dvd player, new entertainment furniture, new eyeglass prescription...

Oh, my aching bank account...

[Neil Enns]

I've heard good things about the Sony Wega 32" :)

Neil

[Suhit Gupta]

I've heard good things about the Sony Wega 32" :)

Neil
C'mon, are you playing with my emotions? That is the one I had all the problems with. :)

Suhit

[Suhit Gupta]

The viewing distance is important because of apparent resolution.
At 10-15 feet even ED plasmas will appear sharp but at 6-8 feet they wouldn't. Unless you're looking at a 1080p display, viewing distance will determine how sharp the image looks, regardless of technology or content format.
Yeah but I have heard of so many problems with plasma TVs, i.e. discoloration, problems with interference with remotes, WiFi and cordless phones, etc. I don't know if I want to mess with that.
Given that distance, if your old TV (SD?) was 36" then you probably do not want anything smaller than 37" and probably want something over 40".
Which right there prunes off a lot of LCD displays.
Yes, that is a good point. However, my budget is a little flexible. I can go up to $2.5K ($3K if there is something truly amazing). I definitely like to go bigger than 32". The 36", 42" and 45" ones are the contendors right now.
Here's another way to slice it; do you want something that is as wide as your old set or as tall as the old set? Tall means SD will look a lot like the old set, wide means SD will look smaller but DVDs will be the same size.
If width is your criterion, a 32" LCD would suffice (lots of those under--well under--$2k), if height is your criterion, then you really want something in the 42" or higher range.
Yeah, probably the later then. As mentioned above, I am thinking of a bigger screen than 32".
Which means a no-name Plasma or a rear-projection unit.
While DLP has some amazing results, and I say this from experience - a number of my friends and relatives now have DLP, space and portability is an issue for me. I am not doing to settle where I am now for long. Also, I don't think I will be getting a really large apartment which means going flat is the way.
So, upfront, I think you are basically looking at 37" LCDs around $2k. Doable but not overly abundant.
And none are first tier brands, most of which are clustered around $2500.
Basically you're looking at the above-mentioned Westinghouse, Syntax Olevia, Sceptre, and maybe Benq, for LCDs, unless you scale down to 32 inches.

If you go for micro displays, you can easily get 44-50 inches from Toshiba, Hitachi, RCA and Samsung and still meet your price point.

If you prefer plasmas, you're mostly looking at 42" ED unless you move up to $2500 or find a big sale.
Interesting. I am still thinking LCD, not plasma.
One other problem you'll face is that most name-brand models only come with one digital input (HDMI or DVI) and, maybe, two component video inputs. That may or not be sufficient, depending on how many digital sources you need to plan for. "A few game devices" suggests you may have a problem with ports...
Well, I have seen most with 3-4 sets of RCA inputs, DVI and HDMI. I think that should suffice. I can always swap in/out the gaming consoles, not a high priority. Or I can buy a switch later on.
As for what I have, well I have the Westinghouse 37" 1080p and it does exactly what I need the way I want it done. No buyer's remorse here.

I would suggest most folks in the market look at it and consider what its existence tells us about where the market is going, but since it is not properly-speaking a TV and it is not a name brand product, I can't vouch for what kind of experience you might have or how well it might fit your needs.
Were you considering any others when you bought yours? And what made this one the right one for you?

Suhit

[Felix Torres]

Were you considering any others when you bought yours? And what made this one the right one for you?

Suhit

Actually, I wasn't even in the market for an HD TV. :lol:
(Oh, I'd looked and I was more or less headed towards a DLP unit at some future date, but I was in no hurry to drop $2k on a TV.)

I'd seen the 45" 1080p Sharps at $5K and pretty much made up my mind to wait until something comparable was in my range. Which I figured was 12-18 months away...

So there I was, minding my own business, when I see the plaque at Best Buy for a Westinghouse 1080p for under $2k.
(I had heard of Westinghouse's plans for a 1080p display for $2500 way back in January but I hadn't really believed it.)
This, however was real.
And pretty darn good looking.
So I did some research and tried to find some reason *not* to buy but found none. Not at that price. Basically it was the display I wanted, at a price I could handle, 2 years ahead of schedule.

The thing is pretty much the way I would've designed it if I had a choice:
5 HD inputs, no tuners
Removable speakers at the bottom
Very thin profile.
Very fine-grained settings.
Very HTPC/MCE PC-friendly, right up to supporting DPMS and 1/8" audio jack on the VGA port .

And, being a local purchase: 30-days, no questions-asked return policy.
So, since there's only so much you can do in the store I took it home for a test drive.
That was two months ago. 8)

I have a cable STB running 1080i across the board on DVI port 1 and an upscaling DVD player doing the same on DVI port 2. VCR on composite and a music-streaming network player on S-Video and an XBOX on component port 1. (720p games look great! Somewhere around I have a 1080i-capable game I need to dig up.) The last component port is reserved for an XBOX360 once Oblivion comes out. :wink:

Oh, I've tried the VGA port and it works fine but that one is reserved for when cablecard-capable MCE PCs hit my price point.

Of the four things that can go wrong with an LCD display:
- dead or stuck pixels
- uneven backlighting
- bad power supply
- bad electronics
None have shown up in my unit. So far. (Knock on wood.)

Since its not a name brand product, (yet!) I may have just lucked out or they all may be this good. Or somewhere in between. Dunno. <shrug>
Buyer beware.

Westinghouse is *supposed* to have a 42" model in the works for late this year and a 47" for early next year but there is no word on how firm that schedule might be.

[Felix Torres]

Yeah but I have heard of so many problems with plasma TVs, i.e. discoloration, problems with interference with remotes, WiFi and cordless phones, etc. I don't know if I want to mess with that.

While DLP has some amazing results, and I say this from experience - a number of my friends and relatives now have DLP, space and portability is an issue for me. I am not doing to settle where I am now for long. Also, I don't think I will be getting a really large apartment which means going flat is the way.

Suhit

1- Plasma issues can be managed *if* you take the time to "break-in" the display properly. Some people swear by them. They do have better black levels than LCD. Me, I'm not comfortable with the possible life-cycle issues that may lie down the road and I have a lot more experience with LCD panels so I was comfortable that I could handle the issues an off-brand LCD might bring, as opposed to those even a name-brand plasma might bring. But I'm keeping an open mind; I hardly expect my current display to be the last HD display I buy and Plasmas do have their advantages once you hit 65" and larger.

2- DLP microdisplays can be as thin as 7 inches; most flat panels take 8-10 inches of surface on a stand and DLPs are actually lighter than
Plasmas. Unless you intend to wall mount their is little difference in the space they take up...

Just keep an open mind, cause micro-displays are the cheapest way to go big and the technology has some interesting built-in advantages (as do all three main HD contenders) like natural antialiasing.

[klinux]

Yeah but I have heard of so many problems with plasma TVs, i.e. discoloration, problems with interference with remotes, WiFi and cordless phones, etc. I don't know if I want to mess with that.

There are always problem with any kind of display device. From the research I have done, the problems you have mentioned above are truly minimal.

I did the same research too and upgraded a 30" CRT to a 42" plasma (exact model being TH-42PD50). Based on the requirements you have listed, I believe that would be a good choice for you as well. Form factor is the #1 factor for me (has to hang on a well) followed by picture quality. The Panasonic model I listed has gotten extremely good reviews despite it being only an ED display.

[klinux]

Oh, I forgot to mention that the Panasonic ED is at a good price (well below $2000). Invest the money you saved and in a few more years, you can get either a 1080p plasma with no burn-in or interference and runs on 10w of power or a 1080p LCD with superb black level and a 1ms response time or a (insert your favorite technology here) AND still have a good plasma to use in kitchen/2nd bedroom, etc.

[ericok]

WOOT.COM has the 61" InFocus DLP with 1280x720p native resolution on sale for $2499. This set is only 7 inches thick and could be wall mounted. It retailed for over $6,000 at one time. Got good reviews - but it is $500 over budget.

[Suhit Gupta]

WOOT.COM has the 61" InFocus DLP with 1280x720p native resolution on sale for $2499. This set is only 7 inches thick and could be wall mounted. It retailed for over $6,000 at one time. Got good reviews - but it is $500 over budget.
I did see that and I was tempted. However my problem with DLP is that one needs to buy new bulbs for the projector every few years. I find that to be a bit annoying. Has anyone had the same experience?

Suhit

[Janak Parekh]

I did see that and I was tempted. However my problem with DLP is that one needs to buy new bulbs for the projector every few years. I find that to be a bit annoying. Has anyone had the same experience?
Well, everything wears out. I like the fact that I can easily buy a new bulb for DLP and that the rest of the parts are geared to last longer. Of course, if you look at DLP you gotta look at the Samsungs. I still love our (now "ancient") HL-P5663W.

Re viewing distance: Felix is 100% correct about this point. Grab a measuring tape and start laying out your room virtually. Then, go down to the nearest Best Buy/Circuit City/Insert Annoying Store Of Your Choice Here and stand back from the TV and get an idea of the viewing angle, etc. I spent a lot of time on that before deciding a 56" DLP was a good choice.

--janak

[Felix Torres]

Well, everything wears out. I like the fact that I can easily buy a new bulb for DLP and that the rest of the parts are geared to last longer.

Every technology currently in use has its strengths and weaknesses.
Having to replace the bulb on rear-projection units is a recurring cost,but there is a plus; micro-displays are more modular and repairable than the flat panels.
Think of it; a Plasma display has a repairable power supply, electronics that may or not be repairable, and a unified display panel that isn't.

An LCD has the power supply, the electronics, and the backlight that should be repairable, and a panel that likely isn't.

DLP's and LCDs rear-projection systems have repairable optics, color wheels, and imaging systems. *And* they do "big" cheaper than anything currently out there.

There are trade-offs but they are worth considering.

About Samsung DLPs, they come with good reputations, but do take care if you're considering the low-end 44" model. It uses a low-cost DLP chip and wobulation and one unit I checked out showed noticeable speckling on bright solid white areas. Others didn't do it but its something to look at...

[jeff]

[quote=Janak Parekh]
It uses a low-cost DLP chip and wobulation and one unit I checked out showed noticeable speckling on bright solid white areas. Others didn't do it but its something to look at...

That speckling is the anti-glare coating on the screen. It's one of the reasons (poor off-axis viewing being the prime other one) that I couldn't do rear projection. Even though my 37" Aquos has an anti-glare screen, it doesn't have nearly the same sparkling effect the DLPs seem to.

[Felix Torres]

That speckling is the anti-glare coating on the screen. It's one of the reasons (poor off-axis viewing being the prime other one) that I couldn't do rear projection. Even though my 37" Aquos has an anti-glare screen, it doesn't have nearly the same sparkling effect the DLPs seem to.

really?

I found it odd because they had a whole row of Samsung DLPs side by side and the 44" model was the only one that did it; not the older 46" or the 50" or 56"...
And since the 44 is the only one with the low-cost wobulation chip?
I saw similar effects at other stores but again, only on that model.
(The speckling I refer to is big, btw; about pea-sized variations in brightness within solid white areas...)

Maybe they're also using a cheaper coating?