My First Experience with a DRM Protected CD

[Jason Dunn]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t34822.html' target='_blank'>http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t34822.html</a><br /><br /></div>A couple of days ago my wife came with with a CD she purchased: the new Backstreet Boys album, "Never Gone". Now, normally I'd immediately grab it, douse it with lighter fluid, and light it on fire - but I happen to think the new single, "Incomplete" is actually a very good song. I find myself shocked to admit that, but a good song is a good song, regardless of which cheeseball band is singing it. I'm listening to the rest of the album as I write this and there are some cheesy songs after all. But back to the story...<br /><br />I put the CD into my computer and immediately a MediaMax installer pops up. I thought it was some lame "enhanced media player", so I declined the EULA installer - and it ejected the CD. 8O How curious! I put it back in, left the EULA installer open, and fired up WMP10 to rip the CD. After the first few tracks ripped, I listened to one - and it was a mash of skips and distortions. My first DRM'd CD! I looked at the CD case, and sure enough, there's a paragraph on the back of the CD that explains that the CD is protected against "unauthorized copying" and the software needs to be installed in order to play the CD on a computer. It played fine in my wife's car, but you have to install the MediaMax software to listen to it on a PC - and you can't rip it. Interestingly enough there's also no CD logo anywhere on the case - Philips must have revoked their logo because it's not a compliant CD.<br /><br />Knowing how lame previous CD DRM efforts have been, I did a quick Google search, and sure enough there's <a href="http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t34822.html">a post in the Hydrogenaudio forums</a> describing this exact issue:<br /><br /><i>"If you allow the MediaMax software to even show you the license agreement when you insert the Backstreet Boys "Never Gone" album the MediaMax software will automatically install itself without your consent regardless of whether you accept the agreement or not."</i><br /><br />That's what I call <i>evil</i> software - installing itself without prompting the user. I checked for it in Add/Remove programs, and it's not listed, so that's one stealth install. After a bit more research I discovered it's more akin to a device driver than a program, and we all know Windows will install devices without prompting the user. Perhaps that's something that needs changing in Longhorn (or sooner). The fix for disabling the MediaMax DRM is quite simple:<br /><br />"Click Start, Run, and type: command<br />Now type in the following:<br />net stop sbcphid<br />del %systemroot%\system32\drivers\sbcphid.sys"<br /><br />I ran the above, then ripped the CD without any problems. Now that I know this works, I can go buy the new Dave Matthew's Band CD, which I had been putting off getting because of this issue. Isn't this a twisted world we live in where artists are pitting themselves against their own customers who are actually buying the CD? :roll:<br /><br />There's a very interesting article <a href="http://www.cs.princeton.edu/~jhalderm/cd3/">discussing the MediaMax software</a> in more detail that's worth reading if this issue interests you.

[Kevin Wolff]

You know... I happen to like the Backstreet Boys. I'm man enough to admit it. Actually, there's a bunch a cheeseball groups that I like. And I refuse to be embarassed about it anymore!

[Ed Hansberry]

This and the "enhanced experience" garbage is why I have disabled XP's autoplay of CDs.

[Damion Chaplin]

So... If I put it in my conventional CD player, and output it to my Archos media player, will I be able to record the music as MP3s that way? Probably.

Like Ed, I just have autorun disabled (I use DVDIdle for that). It just got too annoying that just about every time I stuck a DVD into my HTPC, it would prompt me to install that stupid Intermedia player. A good program (DVDIdle I mean), well worth the money.

[Jason Dunn]

So... If I put it in my conventional CD player, and output it to my Archos media player, will I be able to record the music as MP3s that way? Probably.

Sure, but if you follow the instructions above you can rip it normally. ;-)

[Damion Chaplin]

So would these instructions work on any DRM scheme, or just the MediaMax DRM?

I heard that the new(er) Beastie Boys CD had the same issue (autorun installed insidious DRM). Is that the same scheme? Just curious.

[Jason Dunn]

So would these instructions work on any DRM scheme, or just the MediaMax DRM?

Just the MediaMax scheme.

[stevehiner]

There is a great tool at http://www.l5sg.com/products/downloads/drivermanager/ that gives you a nice UI to remove drivers. They also have a tool to install and uninstall services.

Should make DRM removal much easier.

[jeffd]

wait wait wait...isn't software that installs itself without consent illegal?

[mobile]

argh, this DRM crap is a true nuisance. although i have issues with how apple handles it, im still sort of in control of it, being able to authorize and de-authorize computers to play it. however, i just bought a dido concert dvd, which came with a concert "cd." yes, "cd," not CD. as most of you know, and which was pointed out earlier in this thread, these so-called "cds" do not follow Philips' CD standard. of course the artists should get their fair share, but they're not. it's not protectionism on behalf of the artist, but on behalf of the record companies. sure, everyone is entitled to get paid, but i'm also entitled to listen to the "cd" i bought ... in accordance with fair use as outlined in copyright law.

i was really looking forward to listening to the cd on my ipod on my way to work, etc. but, no, the record company doesn't want me to listen to the cd ... unless it's through a, by them sanctioned technology, in this case a windows media capable device. who are these companies to tell me what applications to use without telling me before i pop the "cd" into my computer? you know what? i wouldn't have bought that dvd/cd packge if i had known up front. maybe i was naive and clueless when i bought it, but i'm actually not a complete computer novice, and still, the info on the "cd" was not clear enough for anyone to understand that "fair use" was set aside. so completely, incredibly annoying that i considered re-installing a p2p app and downloading the album. after all, i had already PAID for the album!

if it isn't illegal already, installing applications on my computer without my consent should be outlawed. i know, in the eulas that i've already agreed to when installing software on my computer, MS and others make me agree to "stealth" installation of their software, BUT, i didn't even get a chance to decline MediaMax's application until after they'd already installed (to most people) "irreversible" drivers and software.

while i'm on the topic ... bummer about the supreme court's decision the other day, making it possible to hold p2p companies accountable for its users' actions. with the same logic, i think we should hold gun manufacturers accountable for how people use guns too. guns don't kill people, people do. don't get me wrong, but with that said, i'm very much for gun control. but that's because some people are nuts, not because gun manufacturers are evil. p2p software makers apparently are evil though ... at least if we should believe what the courts are telling us.

i guess the next step is to prohibit people from playing music at volume levels loud enough for anyone besides the "intended" and "authorized" user to listen to the music. i'm sure that's going to work just fine ... :twisted: ... after all, my colleague, whom i "tortured" by playing moby, and who originally absolutely didn't like moby, and therefore wouldn't listen to his albums, wouldn't learn to like moby and go buy his albums. knowing that moby is a pretty sensible guy, i have a feeling he'd disagree. especially since he certainly didn't lose any money on it. just an example ...

oh well, that was a longer post than planned.

/// mobile

[Darius Wey]

As far-fetched as it may sound, I have a DVD-ROM drive which rips just about any CD (protected or not). While I do support artists trying to protect themselves from piracy, some of their adopted protection schemes are just downright nasty - especially when it requires the installation of unwanted programs on to the system. Thank heavens for my Asus DVD-ROM.

[Jason Dunn]

wait wait wait...isn't software that installs itself without consent illegal?

Assuming you're talking about the USA, no, I don't think so - unless congress has passed some anti-spyware laws recently? And this is a driver for the CD "device"...so it's more like connecting a USB thumbdrive to your computer. Still stupid, but I think that's how they might justify the stealth install.

[entropy1980]

You can also hold the shift key when you insert the disk, I believe that will keep the driver from installing. I also wonder if it's just an Windows issue and what you might run into if you pop in a Mac or Linux box?

[Darius Wey]

I also wonder if it's just an Windows issue and what you might run into if you pop in a Mac or Linux box?

More often than not, it is a scheme localised to systems running Windows.

[mobile]

darius is right, at this point the DRM stuff from MediaMax and the likes tend to only work on Windows. i'm sure they're hard at work developing a Mac version of it. consequently, everyone should have a standby linux system. :wink:

soon we will probably have a law suit against computer and keyboard manufacturers for including a shift key on their keyboards. after all, with the same logic, the manufacturers must be promoting piracy with those shift keys ...
&lt;/sarcasm>

/// mobile

[jeffd]

jason.. but installing drivers without the user knowing is much akin to viruses, and trojan programs. Remember when system admins were installing programs like folding @home on their work computers and then getting sued for it? It's something akin to computer theft of resources or something or other. Also what if the driver cause crashing with other programs? I know theres a word im searching for, but I just woke up so can't dig it out of my head yet.

[Jason Dunn]

jason.. but installing drivers without the user knowing is much akin to viruses, and trojan programs.

Hey, don't get me wrong, I'd like to see they stopped somehow from doing this, but what I'm saying is that they might have a legal loophole. :?

[ctmagnus]

i just bought a dido concert dvd, which came with a concert "cd." yes, "cd," not CD. as most of you know, and which was pointed out earlier in this thread, these so-called "cds" do not follow Philips' CD standard.

I had planned on getting this CD today but then I saw this post and changed my mind. But a little bit later, I thought "This is Dido! I can't possibly live without Dido! I'll just find an alternative means to get the music in my preferred format if necessary" and I went out and bought the set (for more than likely more than you paid for it - the setbacks of living in a small town) and the CD contains just .cda files when viewed in Windows Explorer. It's a standard audio CD regardless of the fact that the packaging makes no mention of that fact.

Or at least, that's the case with the set I bought - there may be regional differences in this case.

[Jonathon Watkins]

I've just bought £140 worth of CDs from Amazon and CDWow. Why did I buy them? Because they were MP3s that I had borrowed from folks and after listening to them, I found I liked them. Whenever I borrow MP3s or a CD, I rip them and place them in an "On Trial" folder. Every so often I go through and delete what I don't like and then go and buy what I do like.

One the new CDs was Moby's 'Hotel'. (I only stated listening to Moby after I got a stack of MP3s from someone). There is a 'Copy Controlled' label on the CD with a warning that it may not play on some audio devices and there's no CD logo. However, it ripped without any problem at all. Go figure.

Bottom line? Listening to ripped MP3 has *increased* my purchase of CDs. If I could not rip the CD I bought, then I would have had to download it from some file sharing site, as I listed to ALL my music stored digitally on my computer. I'm willing to pay for music, but I am not at all happy about half baked schemes that try to stop me listening to the music I've bought in the manner I want to.

[bluemax]

I say, take the bloody thing back. Tell them you're computer was maliciously altered by their CD without your conscent.

Tell them also, that you bought the CD. You didn't download if off someone else's system and you have no intentions of distributing the recordings you spent good money on.

This whole thing makes me sick. The RIAA and MPAA should all be committed to hospitals for the insane. They reward the people who support them by installing trojan software on our computers. I'm tired of getting beat up by the goons. I don't need any video or audio that bad.

Make it stop. Ask your representatives and candidates where they stand on your "fair use" rights. If they support the RIAA and MPAA, vote for someone who is willing represent you instead.

Bill B.

[Ed Hansberry]

I say, take the bloody thing back. Tell them you're computer was maliciously altered by their CD without your conscent.

Tell them also, that you bought the CD. You didn't download if off someone else's system and you have no intentions of distributing the recordings you spent good money on.
If everyone did that, the recording industry might get a clue.

Instead, most people just shrug and live with it. Hey, it is Backstreet Boys. What can you say? Look at their audience. :onfire:

[Jason Dunn]

I say, take the bloody thing back. Tell them you're computer was maliciously altered by their CD without your conscent.

Yeah, it's funny, I've had this "DRM fantasy scenario" for a while now (bear with me, I have an active imagination): I'd buy the DRM'd CD, take it home and not be able to play it on my computer, then I'd go back to the store and talk with the manager. He'd agree it was unfair, and I'd send a message to the record companies: I'd buy every single CD in the store, open them up, then return them to the store for a credit. The store would then return them to the publisher and say that they were all returned by unhappy customers. :lol:

But the reality is that I was able to rip the CD, and I have more important things to do with my time. But if someone else wants to take my idea and run with it, go for it. It would be kind of cool to organize a bunch of people to target DRM'd CDs one by one, causing a huge effect. :twisted:

[rlobrecht]

Yet another reason why you shouldn't be running your XP box as an Administrator. A normal user would never have had permission to install a new driver.

This is exactly why these kinds of things will never work on Mac or Linux (at least for the saavy user.) They both require a separate password to install software.

[whydidnt]

The worst part of this whole thing is that anyone that is computer savvy enough to rip and share files will also have no problem finding the solution as Jason did. So, what we have is no true benefit from the DRM, as it's not preventing anyone who wants to RIP from ripping. All it does is install a potentially useless device driver without the consent of people who just want to listen to the BackStreet Boys.

They are accomplishing NOTHING positive and deriving no benefit by using this worthless scheme - and are only creating potential problems. Typical RIAA though, they still haven't learned that they have an old business model and that to survive longterm they'll have to change to a more customer friendly model.

It's a good think Jason doesn't live in the US, since what he did - circumventing copy protection is a clear violation of the DMCA. :roll:
That fact alone should encourage all of you to continue to pound on your elected officials to repeal or change this ridiculous law. Who do they serve anyway? :evil:

[karen]

[But if someone else wants to take my idea and run with it, go for it. It would be kind of cool to organize a bunch of people to target DRM'd CDs one by one, causing a huge effect. :twisted:

I've already done that. I travel a bit, so I can buy CDs anywhere. In Canada, there are many more CDs with this DRM crap on them, so I run into them more often. The first time this happened to me, I had purchased about $150 of CDs at Future Shop. I bought them took them out to the car as as I was opening one to play on my CD Player, I saw the disclaimer. I immediately took it back into the store and an demanded my money back. The cashier insisted because I had opened it, I could not return it but I could exchange it for the same title.

I called for the manager and explained that I had purchased this minutes before and refused to pay a regular price for a product that had copying restrictions. He gave me the usual "oh, so you want your friends to get ti for free' and I said "No, I just want to listen to it on my Pocket PC, my laptops, my MP3 player and my Media Center PC" as I have done in the past. I went on that "If they want me to purchase 5 copies of their product to do that, I need to be able to purchase these in formats that could play on all these devices directly AND charge me about $2 a product.

I also told him that even if he weren't to give me my money back that I would return the other $120 of Cds on the spot. He went on about all this file sharing stuff and I said that's definitely not what I'm doing, because if that were true, I wouldn't be spending hundreds of dollars on CDs. He gave me my money back, but said that he wouldn't do that again.

Ever CD I purchase gets a good going over to see if it has DRM. And I no longer purchase any CDs in Canada due to the distributors use of DRM on products where they charge the same price as they did prior to limiting my enjoyment of their products. If Canadian distrubutors and retailers want my money, they are going to have to stop these stupid pet tricks or start charging pennies on the dollar for cripled CDs.

Not one penny will go to them until they do. It's bad enough that their silly levy on blank Cds costs me even though I never make CDs of music. I have thousands of dollars a year to spend on music and the Canadian companies will completely miss out on it all.

Karen

[Jason Dunn]

I also told him that even if he weren't to give me my money back that I would return the other $120 of Cds on the spot. He went on about all this file sharing stuff and I said that's definitely not what I'm doing, because if that were true, I wouldn't be spending hundreds of dollars on CDs. He gave me my money back, but said that he wouldn't do that again.

Good for you! I can only hope if things like this keep happening the retailers will talk to the distributors and eventually they'll see that some consumers simply won't put up with this.

It really digusts me that I have to examine every CD I buy now for DRM as if it was a dangerous drug and I'm looking for the side effects. :roll:

[ctmagnus]

It really digusts me that I have to examine every CD I buy now for DRM as if it was a dangerous drug and I'm looking for the side effects. :roll:

So now the RIAA is on the same level as pushers.

[karen]

Well, what really ticks me off is that I NEVER, NEVER violate copyright...at least never intentially. I always buy the software, I never 'lend' my software CDs and DVDs, I purchase the production licenses even when I have development and evaluation licenses, etc. I don't 'share' my CDs when I know for certain the person is going to make a copy (and that's leagal in Canada) because I think consumers should support the people creating all this intellectual property.

Yet I have to pay the stupid, unaccounted for CD levy, I have to pay full price for crippled CDs and DVDs, and I get the evil eye when I'm examining all these products for restrictions.

It's as if the distributors are just begging me to steal it all.

[osmel]

no wonder... i thought it was my cd that was broken or something.. it didnt let me play it on any computer I tried it on. Thx for the fix 8)

[feverlax]

what you have to do is log on to windows with a restricted account and then when u put the cd in it will pop up and say u dont have enought privledges to install the software, so hit ok and open iTunes or watever and rip the cd DRM free