Digital TV: What Are We Waiting For?

[Chris Gohlke]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,120155,tk,dn032405X,00.asp' target='_blank'>http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,120155,tk,dn032405X,00.asp</a><br /><br /></div><i>"Who's to blame for the slow pace of the digital television transition in the United States? Broadcast industry officials, consumer electronics vendors, and consumer groups blamed each other at a recent HDTV conference here."</i><br /><br />The article puts some of the blame on the broadcasters and some on consumers. Personally, I blame Comcast. I have an HD ready TV with their digital HD box. However, they don't even carry all of the local stations that broadcast in HD. So, I am watching the networks in analog. That is my other beef with Comcast "digital" service. They don't tell you that channels 2-99 are broadcast in analog and only the upper channels are digital, so even with all the bells and whistles on my cable package and a nice home theater, most of my viewing is regular old analog cable. :bad-words:

[Kevin & Beth Remhof]

I know what you are saying about "digital" cable. We only get a handful of channels in digital. But that's not what I really want from my cable. It's not the quality of signal I get it for. It's the DVR.

Personally, I go for features over picture and sound quality. I'd like to go HD but can't justify the money on an HD set. So until then, I'll live with analog cable on my DVR.

[Chris Gohlke]

I don't want DVR from my cable company because I don't want to pay a monthly fee for something I can buy outright that has more features. I have a DVR that records to DVD and I love it specificially for the freedom Comcast/Tivo won't necessarily give me. I record and archive my favorite shows to DVD. Then I have the freedom to do whatever I like with them.

[Felix Torres]

Its not just Comcast. Adelphia and most other cable operators are the same way. Most digital cable systems are actually hybrids and in most cases the most popular channels are analog while the obscure filler is digital. So the networks, ESPN, SciFi, Bravo, etc are analog, with degraded quality, but HGN and the Community access channels are digital-pristine.
And then they wonder why folks sign up for satellite... :roll:

One solution that folks tend to forget: you don't need an HD TV to watch HD programming.

HD set-top boxes *will* deliver 480i output on component and S-video.
You won't get the full quality of the broadcast, but you *will* get a much better picture (with surround sound to boot) than you get off the cable or even a dish.
If your cable operator has any kind of HD package--and yes, there is precious little HD on cable other than ESPN and Discovery--it may pay to dump the baseline dighital package and just sign up for the minimal HD package instead. Or, buy a broadcast hd tuner.

[Crocuta]

When I returned to the US in 2003, I bought a large HDTV and signed up for 'digital basic' cable with Adelphia. I figured the move to digital TV was one of the perks of my return. Imagine my surprise when I called to ask why these digital pictures looked so shoddy and they told me that 'digital basic' doesn't actually include any digital channels. It just means that I have a digital set top box through which I can view my analog TV. For an extra $15 a month, though, I could get digital channels. What digital channels? Why about half a dozen like Discovery and such, but none of my network channels or anything. I passed and gave them their box back. Now I use this wonderful HDTV to watch analog cable straight out of the wall (usually through my Tivo). Not surprisingly, I'm tending to favor watching DVDs over movies these days. They look great on the screen and they don't have those irritating little graphic ads running all over the screen while you're trying to watch a show.

What really burns me is to read that article and have all of them trying to pin the blame for the slow adoption of digital TV on consumers. Excuse me folks, but it's not the consumers' fault that you've made a complicated system that practially requires a night school course to understand, and that even when we get the equipment, we still can't see what we really want to watch in digital anyway. It's not our fault that, to see our local stations in HD, we need to buy an expensive antenna system in addition to the expensive cable that we're paying through the wazoo for. It's not our fault that the industry can't settle on a single standard for digital broadcasting so that we can get on with building and buying tuner boxes, DVD recorders, etc. It's not our fault that the electronics manufacturers are still selling regular analog TVs to unsuspecting consumers only a year and a half before they'll become obsolete. Your screwups are our problem, but they're not our screwups.

[Crocuta]

I'm thinking of cancling my cable and just using my TV for DVD's and Video Games. :? Tell those dam cable/satellite companies to kiss my butt! :twisted: Now who's with me? :P

I have friends who live way out in the country who can't get broadcast or cable and don't bother to get satellite. They just use their TV for DVDs and seem quite happy with it. Now that I think of what I pay a month for cable, and match that to how many shows I actually enjoy, it occurs to me that I could put that cable TV money toward buying DVDs of the series that I really like. Maybe that's the way to go! :scatter:

[wilkinsjme]

Currently Comcast is rolling out a digital simulcast. (Your area might not have it just yet) Which means you will receive all channels in a digital format provided you have the set top box. Brighthouse and other cable cos are rolling this out as well this year. So probably later this year when you tune in one of those 2-99 channels you will get the digital signal instead of the horrendous analog signal.

Also many cable companies don't carry all the local stations OTA HD signal for several reasons. Generally the main reason is the TV station wants money from the cable co to broadcast the channel and/or they want the cable co to also carry an additional sub channel. The cable cos refuse to pay since it an OTA channel. Overtime the TV stations give in. So if you don't have a certain OTA channel call the TV station. They are most likely the hold up.

[wilkinsjme]

I don't want DVR from my cable company because I don't want to pay a monthly fee for something I can buy outright that has more features.

Have you priced out a HD-DVR lately? They seem to be around $900 plus a monthly sub fee (or lifetime pass).
I pay $6.95/mo for a dual tuner HD-DVR with a 120GB hard drive. Currently there is nothing preventing me from directing the output to a vcr or other device. That may change with the broadcast flag. So until the price of a HD-DVR comes down it's tough to justify the cost at this point. I do agree a tivo has more features though.

It will be interesting to see how the Comcast/Tivo realtionship pans out.

[Chris Gohlke]

I don't want DVR from my cable company because I don't want to pay a monthly fee for something I can buy outright that has more features.

Have you priced out a HD-DVR lately? They seem to be around $900 plus a monthly sub fee (or lifetime pass).
I pay $6.95/mo for a dual tuner HD-DVR with a 120GB hard drive. Currently there is nothing preventing me from directing the output to a vcr or other device. That may change with the broadcast flag. So until the price of a HD-DVR comes down it's tough to justify the cost at this point. I do agree a tivo has more features though.

It will be interesting to see how the Comcast/Tivo realtionship pans out.

I was not aware that the DVR the cable companies are offering are HD. If that is the case, then the rental is a good deal because it will take many, many years to realize any cost savings from buying. Still most of what I am recording is not offered in HD anyway, so we have a chicken and egg problem.

[yada88]

Get DirecTV and 100% digital.

[Felix Torres]

Get DirecTV and 100% digital.

Also, zero% HD. 8)
Unless you sign up for the HD version at, what is it $700 upfront? For 4 HD channels?
That may change, according to their ads, but for now, very few cable channels are HD.
Even VOOM, if it lives out the month, is almost pure filler.

Not much HD content anywhere.
So why pay inflated prices on the set *and* content side for very little true HD?

Everything might come together in the second half of the year (more likely *next* year) but today *nobody* has a compelling HD-content story.

[Chris Gohlke]

Get DirecTV and 100% digital.

In addition to Felix's comments, I don't like the idea of paying a fee for each TV in my house. With 6 sets, it ads up fast. With Comcast I do get analog free on all my additional sets.

If Comcast gets the major networks in HD and makes the lower 99 digital, I will be very happy with them.

[bluemax]

The article seems to miss another big group in this process. I go to the local Best Buy/Circuit City/Ultimate Electronics and find store clerks who only know the big tvs are hd and the little ones aren't. Geese. And then ask about a digital tuner and they say, "Oh, I guess you can get on of those on the web." Well, why am I in your store then!?!

Worse yet is a complete failure on the promise that Digital TV wouldn't cost any more than analog. Yeah, right!!!

Bill B.

[Felix Torres]

Worse yet is a complete failure on the promise that Digital TV wouldn't cost any more than analog. Yeah, right!!!



Actually, if you're talking hardware that is almost true right now and will be true soon enough.
But...

That is for Oranges-to-Oranges comparisons; direct-view and crt-based rear-projection units.

Problem is, at the same time we're migrating from analog content and analog display we're moving to digital content *and* digital display.

And digital display devices like DLPs, LCDs and Plasma screens are immature and still expensive technologies. To say nothing of OLEDS, SEDs and LED-backlit LCDs...
Add in the migration to larger display sizes that is going on at the same time and you'll find a lot of folks replacing 27-30 inch tube tvs for 42 inch plasma flat panels or 50 inch DLPs...

[bluemax]

Actually, if you're talking hardware that is almost true right now and will be true soon enough.

I haven't found any comparible sets even close to each other. Let's take 32" as a middle of the road set for an average apartment living room. I'm not comparing large screen to basic sets.

Looking at Circuit City's web site I see 32" analog TVs with tuner going for $250 - $600. The first Digital set listed (by price) is $719 without a digital tuner. Right off the bat thats $100 more than the most expensive analog set. On top of that you have to add a tuner which Circuit City doesn't even carry. The lowest HD tuner on Froogle is $300. making a basic setup for digital more than $1000. That's almost twice the top analog set and four times the basic analog set. Best Buy, Ultimate Electronics and American all have similar prices. Frys is not in our area.

Maybe I just don't know where to shop.

Bill B

[Jason Dunn]

Things are a bit different up here in Canada, but not much. I bought an HD set, and we have to buy external tuners - none of the TVs, even the really expensive ones, have HD tuners built in. I have digital cable, but there are hardly any HD channels. I have access to five in total, and of them all, PBS is the only one that's HD 99% of the time. The "network" HD channels frequently broadcast non-HD, which just pisses me off. The HD PVR is a Motorola, and it's kind of lame - very crude compared to the ReplayTV I had before.

I have all the equipment, but where's the friggin' content?? :roll:

[alanjrobertson]

Interesting to hear the situation in the USA. It's a bit different in the UK - good in some ways, bad in others!

Over here cable has been fully digital for a few years now. There's only two providers (ntl and Telewest/Blueyonder) and there's talk of them possibly merging. They both offer the 'triple play' of digital TV, broaband, telephone. No HDTV currently available, although some initial roll-outs of video-on-demand (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4194357.stm). DVRs have also just been launched.

Satellite also went digital a few years back and is supplied by Sky. They're planning HD broadcasts in the next year or so. Sky also offer 'Sky Plus' - a TiVo style DVR (although without all the features of TiVo - they unfortunately stopped selling new TiVos in the UK a couple of years ago).

The only remaining analogue TV is via aerial (5 channels). 'Freeview' (free-to-air digital terrestrial) is also available (about 30 channels) and it's planned that analogue transmissions will be phased out by 2012 - it's already started in a couple of Welsh villages (see http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/4390579.stm). A pay-tv add-on (TopUpTV) is also available on DTT. Digital video recorders are also available.

[Jeremy Charette]

I have all the equipment, but where's the friggin' content?? :roll:

Here's a question I have an answer to, given that I live in New York City, and have friends and family both here and in San Francisco that are in the production and post-production business.

The problem is the limited number of post-production facilities with high-definition capability.

Post-production is where the raw footage is edited together with graphics, credits, etc. to produce a complete television show. The majority (I'm gonna guess 99+%) of post-production houses use AVID systems, which can only accept and output below-HDTV signals. HDTV takes major processing power, and incredibly expensive equipment. The existing post-production houses with HDTV capability are backlogged with work at the moment, and can't keep up. As more facilities become HD-capable, the content stream will broaden significantly.

A lesser problem is the availability and pricing of HD recording equipment. It's currently rare and expensive. That's changing quickly though.

[Jeremy Charette]

HD set-top boxes *will* deliver 480i output on component and S-video.
You won't get the full quality of the broadcast, but you *will* get a much better picture (with surround sound to boot) than you get off the cable or even a dish.
If your cable operator has any kind of HD package--and yes, there is precious little HD on cable other than ESPN and Discovery--it may pay to dump the baseline dighital package and just sign up for the minimal HD package instead. Or, buy a broadcast hd tuner.

I use NYC Time Warner, and the HD box they provide outputs in 480i, but it looks horrendous. No better than the standard S-Video out in "analog" mode.

Here in NYC, and at my other apartment in Western New York, Time Warner offers the same programming for their digital AND HD packages, the only difference being that the HD package includes a suite of HD channels. Pricing for SD digital and HD are the same. So technically, at the moment there is no price difference to upgrade to HD for Time Warner customers (who already have SD digital cable).

[Jeremy Charette]

I personally switched to HDTV a couple months ago. Got a great deal on a 27" Panasonic Tau CRT at Circuit City, $300. The analog picture is dark and awfully red, but the HD picture is spot on, and incredibly sharp.

My biggest beef: screen ratios and formatting. When I'm in HD mode, I get letterbox bars above and below the picture (it's a 4:3 tube). That's fine, I get it, the broadcast is in widescreen (16:9), which is great. However, when a program comes on that is not widescreen format, I get a black "frame" all the way around the picture. So my 27" TV all of a sudden displays a 20" picture!

I don't care whose fault it is. It's annoying. When a 4:3 picture is displayed, it should fill up a screen on a 4:3 TV, and appear with sidebars on a 16:9 TV. When a 16:9 picture is displayed, it should appear with letterbox bars on a 4:3 TV, and with no bars on a 16:9 display.

GET IT RIGHT PEOPLE!

Oy. Sorry. Had to rant. HDTV is so promising, and yet (at the moment), so incredibly disappointing.

Am I alone?

Another annoyance: analog TV looks worse on an HDTV than it does on a conventional TV. It has the same pixelated look that "digital" SD programming does.

[Jason Dunn]

Post-production is where the raw footage is edited together with graphics, credits, etc. to produce a complete television show. The majority (I'm gonna guess 99+%) of post-production houses use AVID systems, which can only accept and output below-HDTV signals.

Fascinating! Thanks for sharing - it's nice to have some knowledge on this subject in our forums. I hope you stick around. :-)