MP3 Surround Set for Launch

[James Fee]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://news.designtechnica.com/article6041.html' target='_blank'>http://news.designtechnica.com/article6041.html</a><br /><br /></div><i>"Fraunhofer Institute for Integrated Circuits IIS, inventors of mp3, together with Thomson, co-inventors of mp3 and exclusive licensing representative for their mp3 patents and software, and Agere Systems, have joined to launch mp3 SURROUND into the consumer and commercial markets. This technology will enable 5.1 channels surround-quality sound for a broad spectrum of applications including web-based music distribution, broadcasting systems, PC-related audiovisual or gaming applications, consumer electronics and automotive systems.</i>"<br /><br />I guess this is good news, but honestly I don't see much application for end users. I would suspect that in the future, surround sound audio files will be wrapped in DRM, thus being either WMA or AAC. Maybe games and other software packages will use it, but this late in the game no one is going use MP3 5.1.

[crstbo623]

I guess this is good news, but honestly I don't see much application for end users. ... but this late in the game no one is going use MP3 5.1.

I couldn't disagree more. I am psyched about being able to buy my Itunes music in surround sound. Have you heard the quality of DVD surround audio? The new Acura TL has it as an option and it rocks! And I have no problem getting a new Ipod if surround output is a feature in it.

:)

[James Fee]

I guess this is good news, but honestly I don't see much application for end users. ... but this late in the game no one is going use MP3 5.1.

I couldn't disagree more. I am psyched about being able to buy my Itunes music in surround sound. Have you heard the quality of DVD surround audio? The new Acura TL has it as an option and it rocks! And I have no problem getting a new Ipod if surround output is a feature in it.

:)Right, but iTunes uses AAC, not MP3. Of course you'll need speakers to support 5.1 so iPod users are pretty much SOL.

Sure, I'd like to buy 5.1 downloads, but when we are able they won't be MP3, but AAC or WMA. This announcement by Fraunhofer doesn't do a thing for anyone since as far as I know there is no way to rip DVD audio or SACD into MP3 and keep the surround.

[Jason Dunn]

MP3 is a legacy format - no commercial venture will use it, so this is too little, too late. MP3 will be around for a long time to come, but I think it's too late to introduce new versions of it - mp3PRO was a complete flop, as this will be.

[phillypocket]

MP3 is a legacy format - no commercial venture will use it, so this is too little, too late. MP3 will be around for a long time to come, but I think it's too late to introduce new versions of it - mp3PRO was a complete flop, as this will be.

I was just about to ask about mp3PRO. Is anyone using the technology commercially? Or for that matter is anyone here encoding their music with it?

BTW, when Windows Media 9 first came out, didn't Peter Gabriel release Us in 5.1? Did anyone purchase it? Was it worth it?

[Jason Dunn]

Or for that matter is anyone here encoding their music with it?

The problem is that you need a special player to get the high-end frequencies put back into the mix, and mp3PRO never got enough adoption to warrant the software making it into devices...or even into mainstream audio playback software like WMP, Winamp, iTunes, etc.

[James Fee]

I was just about to ask about mp3PRO. Is anyone using the technology commercially? Or for that matter is anyone here encoding their music with it? Musicmatch uses it with their streaming audio. RCA players did support it when they were associated more with Musicmatch a couple years ago, but I believe they all have dropped it.

[Lee Yuan Sheng]

You mean people want to listen to their music in 5.1?? 8O

[Philip Colmer]

You mean people want to listen to their music in 5.1?? 8O
You should try it :wink:.

Depending on your musical tastes, I can certainly recommend Audio (Blue Man Group) or Tubular Bells 2003 (Mike Oldfield), both of which are available in 5.1 formats. The ability to position the instruments into the surround space really does add greater depth that you simply cannot achieve with stereo.

There are more titles available than those two. I've also got "Sacred Love" from Sting which is on SACD and, I think, is a 5.1 mix. The above titles are DVD and DVD-Audio discs.

--Philip

[Felix Torres]

You mean people want to listen to their music in 5.1?? 8O

I assume the question is rhetorical? :)

In case not: given the proliferation of home theater systems *and* the obvious need of the studios to find a sucessor to the CD, one with enough added-value to justify the unavoidable high-grade DRM it will come with, there is obviously going to be a market for surround audio at some point in the near future.

Future, not now, cause I don't see any of the current DVD-based audio solutions making the cut.

Not as a replacement for the CD as we know it.

Current compressed-audio solutions are essentially cassette-replacement technology and will themselves give way to lossless audio files.

Replacing the CD requires a lot more than just a codec, or dedicated hardware, though. It requires an entire new value proposition, so you're right to be skeptical. However, most music listening is done in places (cars, den, living room, bedroom, etc) where surround audio is doable and offers true value. And, like I said, folks are getting used to surround audio with DVDs, games, and home theaters. Plus, it is to the studios' advantage to restore the high-end/low-end market split that existed in the CD/Cassette era and which will completely vanish once lossless audio takes over.

Add up the two trends and I see an unavoidable platform shift coming.

Me, I think the CD successor will be a 3 inch blue-laser disk holding about 6Gb of data. It will include songs in a variety of lossless formats (stereo, 5.1, etc), lyrics, videos, and other promotional goodies like DVDs do.

And, if *I* were doing the design, the disk would be a hybrid with 4GB of stamped-out Read-only content and a 2GB write-once zone for after-purchase d/ls and serial numbering of the disks. :twisted:

(That ought to inflame the anti-DRM crowd enough to get the new format lots and lots of free publicity.)

[Kent Pribbernow]

As a digital format, MP3 is dead. Destined to be squeezed out by modern DRM friendly formats..most notably WMA. I no longer even have audio tracks in my music library encoded in this antiquated format. Everything is in WMA and AAC.

[Felix Torres]

As a digital format, MP3 is dead. Destined to be squeezed out by modern DRM friendly formats..most notably WMA. I no longer even have audio tracks in my music library encoded in this antiquated format. Everything is in WMA and AAC.

I'm impressed.
At last, someone who beats me at the game of over-statement.! :twisted:

While I have no quarrel with the intent...
(yes, MP3 *should* die....)
...it hasn't.
And it won't for a while...

I see it as the music world equivalent of plain ascii text files.
Archaic, deficient, throws away too much useful information, yet everything can read it.
Way too many people still rely on it.
75% of the world's compressed audio files are MP3s...
Like the cockroach, it just won't die!

What will, eventually, kill MP3 support is the licensing requirement; ASCII is free--MP3 isn't. Long term, the lack added value vs the royalty cost will be perceived as a minus.

Short term, though, as Sony discovered, MP3 is a barebones minimum needed before a product can be considered acceptable.
Even MS added MP3 ripping to Windows Media Player.
Grudgingly, I'm sure... :)

[Lee Yuan Sheng]

What incredibly obtuse and narrow-minded viewpoints we have here. :roll:

[phillypocket]

What incredibly obtuse and narrow-minded viewpoints we have here. :roll:

....and this would be the first thread that you noticed that in? :wink:

Or is it that it doesn't correspond to your own personal views. (I can't tell; you don't explain)

Just rolling your eyes in the middle of a convertion adds little; virtually or in real life.

[Jonathon Watkins]

What incredibly obtuse and narrow-minded viewpoints we have here. :roll:

Not really - just different sides of an argument argued wittily and intelligently - usually :wink: . Hey, it's why I read these forums. Point and counterpoint. Steel sharpens steel and all that, you know?

Personally I started ripping CDs in 192Mp3 and it's good enough for the time being. At some point I may get all the 400-odd CDs out again and rip them in another format, but for the foreseeable future I have no compelling reason to do so. It works, it sounds good enough and all my CDs are packed away 600 miles from me at the moment. :lol: Works for me. :P

[jlp]

I would suspect that in the future, surround sound audio files will be wrapped in DRM, thus being either WMA or AAC. Maybe games and other software packages will use it, but this late in the game no one is going use MP3 5.1.

I'm quite positive that Thomson and Fraunhofer IIS devised a way to integrate DRM into MP3 Surround (MP3S).

BTW note that RCA belongs to Thomson since a few years now, that's why their Lyra MP3 players can play MP3 Pro.

Fraunhofer IIS now have a demo version of MP3S codecs/apps that will work till end of 2005. After which the decoder will still work.

They also offer WinAmp plugins.

I can only see very slow adoption since 99.9% of all the CDs in use today are only stereo. Just like 99.9% of all audio players in the world, like all headphones, etc.

And since MP3S needs 6 channels, you'll have to buy new MP3 portable players, new PDAs, new stereo equipments like headphones again, etc.

The only really good news is that codecs and files are BOTH forward and backward compatible, meaning every stereo MP3 player (hardware or software) CAN play MP3S files, tho only in stereo obviously. No information is given on the Fraunhofer site as to whether the extra channels are lost or merged into the stereo streams. Likewise the new codecs can generate "old" MP3 files as well as MP3S ones

[jlp]

Note that Faunhofer IIS links to their licencing partner for information about buying a commercial version of their demo codecs/apps.

I was curious about how much it would cost for an end user.

However as of yet, the partner firm does NOT list any information on MP3 Surround whatsoever; neither prices nor explanations about the technology like they do for MP3 Pro, etc.

I sent them an email to that effect and await their answer.