And the Worst Designed Software Award Goes To...Napster!

[Jason Dunn]

How's this for a frustrating bug? I have a Napster subscription, and have been listening to Liz Phair's latest album lately. I downloaded it over a month ago and have listened to it several times. When I tried to listen to it tonight (keeping in mind it's on my hard drive and I've already signed into Napster), I get this error message:

http://www.digitalmediathoughts.com/images/crashnapstercrash.gif

In addition to that being a confusing message that makes no sense (I have the files, I'm authenticated...why won't they play?) the way that the Napster client and Windows Media Player deals with it is rather ridiculous. When I clicked ok, the player locks up for several seconds, and hitting stop doesn't stop it from trying to play the next song - which results in the same error. I tried five times to click OK then click on the "X" in WMP to stop the madness. That didn't work, so after a few more tries I had to give it the three-finger salute and kill the app. I deleted the files off my hard drive, started up the player again, then deleted the entries from the library (why this isn't automatic is beyond me). I then went into the Napster interface, downloaded the same album again...and now it works perfectly. 8O Let me say it again: DRM is too hard, too flakey, and too limited to catch on in a big way until it becomes much easier. :?

[Kevin & Beth Remhof]

I had this same error message at work for months. I believe it was a firewall issue for me. Just last week, I was upgraded to XP and the problem went away.

Now... I get a different problem at home. Something about security and my DRM licenses. I can't restore or back up licenses.

DRM is a pain. I'm happy to be legal with my music downloads but come on. If this is how DRM is supposed to work, it's time to try something new.

[Neil Enns]

Dude, I feel your pain. I still can't use Napster in WMP on my home computer: it goes into an endless loop of install attempts.

Neil

[Zack Mahdavi]

Guys, maybe it isn't DRM that's the pain, but Napster that's the pain? I've been using the iTunes Music Store since it was introduced in April '03, and I've never had any weird problems with DRM. I have my music authenticated to play on 5 computers, and I can burn unlimited CDs without ever worrying about problems.

I have to believe that it's Napster's implementation and buggy software that's causing problems. DRM has potential, and we better get used to it since it's here to stay.

So all in all, Jason... try iTunes Canada? :)

[Jason Dunn]

Guys, maybe it isn't DRM that's the pain, but Napster that's the pain? I've been using the iTunes Music Store since it was introduced in April '03, and I've never had any weird problems with DRM.

It's a combination of both - bad DRM with bad software design and implementation.

So all in all, Jason... try iTunes Canada? :)

I might buy a few tracks, but since I have no devices that use their format, there's not much point. I don't think most consumers understand how locked in they are - a year or two from now when they've bought hundreds of dollars in music and decide they want to buy a music player from a different vendor...then they'll understand.

[Neil Enns]

I have my music authenticated to play on 5 computers

This is something that annoys the heck out of me with iTunes. While it's true that I can authenticate against 5 computers, iTunes leaves it up to me to figure out how to get the music from one machine to another. It's a royal pain. At least with Napster I can "restore" and re-download music I've purchased onto two other machines directly from the service.

Neil

[Zack Mahdavi]

I might buy a few tracks, but since I have no devices that use their format, there's not much point. I don't think most consumers understand how locked in they are - a year or two from now when they've bought hundreds of dollars in music and decide they want to buy a music player from a different vendor...then they'll understand.

While I have an iPod, I also use one of the few programs (which I won't mention here) to strip the DRM from the iTunes songs. Therefore, I can play the songs easily on my Pocket PC and non-iPod devices. The process is easy, and I consider it legal since I only do it to use the songs on my other devices. Sure, it's technically illegal (according to the DMCA), but I find it appropriate as long as I don't share them on P2P networks.

[ale_ers]

Guys, maybe it isn't DRM that's the pain, but Napster that's the pain? I've been using the iTunes Music Store since it was introduced in April '03, and I've never had any weird problems with DRM. I have my music authenticated to play on 5 computers, and I can burn unlimited CDs without ever worrying about problems.

I have to believe that it's Napster's implementation and buggy software that's causing problems. DRM has potential, and we better get used to it since it's here to stay.

So all in all, Jason... try iTunes Canada? :)

Does itunes have a subscription based service?

I think that is what Jason is talking about, not tracks he has purchased, but songs he is listening to via his subscription.

If itunes does have a subscription service, I wonder if they are thinking about doing something like Napster to go. There are just a few devices that use the new Janus DRM, but I think it is a great idea. Can you imagine getting 60 gig of music for just $14 a month. Sure you are just "renting" the music, but you could always buy it later.

[Zack Mahdavi]

Does itunes have a subscription based service?

I think that is what Jason is talking about, not tracks he has purchased, but songs he is listening to via his subscription.

I was really trying to start a comparison between DRM implementations between iTunes and Napster, not the services they offer. Jason was complaining about DRM in general, and I pointed out that it is possible to make DRM that is non-intrusive.

[Jason Dunn]

Well, let me clarify: I have no use for AAC as a file format. Most of my devices can't play it, so to me, investing more than a few bucks in that format is a waste. But I'll buy a few songs just to check out how iTunes works....then I'll burn a CD and re-rip to WMA. 8)

[Kevin & Beth Remhof]

Well, I solved my problem. I was getting "Secure storage protection error". I recently upgraded my CPU (3 GHz, I'm loving life now). It turns out that the DRM gets all befuddled by this. I had to install the old CPU, backup my licenses and then restore with the new CPU.

I wish it were that simple though. I'm now hitting the old "can't restore licenses because you tried once already today" error. Blech blech blech blech blech.

*#&@^!K!!! Well, I was able to "restore" my licenses. After I made IE my default browser (*#&$^@!) I was able to restore licenses. But it didn't work. Lousy DRM.

[Janak Parekh]

I might buy a few tracks, but since I have no devices that use their format, there's not much point. I don't think most consumers understand how locked in they are - a year or two from now when they've bought hundreds of dollars in music and decide they want to buy a music player from a different vendor...then they'll understand.
True, but by the same token, that lock-in guarantees totally seamless, error-free operation. iTunes sync to the iPod is so ridiculously easy that I'm not afraid of showing it to absolutely anyone. You never see the kind of discussion you see in this thread. I was looking forward to WMP10's sync, but when I found out it won't automatically resync tracks after correcting tags, I was completely turned off from the idea. :?

(But yes, I only buy singles and stuff from iTunes, and continue to buy CDs for albums. I don't trust either AAC or WMA DRM ultimately.)

This is something that annoys the heck out of me with iTunes. While it's true that I can authenticate against 5 computers, iTunes leaves it up to me to figure out how to get the music from one machine to another. It's a royal pain. At least with Napster I can "restore" and re-download music I've purchased onto two other machines directly from the service.
iTunes has always been about a "buy and own forever" philosophy, so there's an explicit focus on you keeping the music files like any other data. The "good" thing about this means you can move files anywhere without a second thought, no licenses to be backed up, etc. The "bad" thing about this is that there's no subscription service -- Steve Jobs doesn't believe in it. But at least the DRM just works.

Anyway... a question for you, Neil: what happens if Napster were to stop retailing the track?

--janak

[sub_tex]

Boy am I glad I don't use these online music services! Viva allofmp3! :lol:

Being a bit dumb in how the Napster service works, I have a question: from what you posted in the news article, you have to have Napster authenticate the songs for you to listen to them every time? What if you weren't connected to the net, say, using a laptop on an airplane?

[ale_ers]

Boy am I glad I don't use these online music services! Viva allofmp3! :lol:

Being a bit dumb in how the Napster service works, I have a question: from what you posted in the news article, you have to have Napster authenticate the songs for you to listen to them every time? What if you weren't connected to the net, say, using a laptop on an airplane?

Napster has two services: Subscription and sales. If you purchase a song you can listen to it where ever. I don't subscribe to Napster (yet), but I think it checks to see that you are logged in so that you can play the songs. If you have a Music Player that supports Microsoft's Jannus DRM, you can listen to subscription songs on that player even if you have not purchased them.