We're Not Psychic: Please Include Your Email Address When Contacting Us

[Jason Dunn]

Pardon the directness of this message, but a fellow named Phoenix has been emailing us for the past few weeks, asking questions, and he never includes his return email address so we can't respond to him. Sadly, this is a fairly common occurrence, so here's a request from us: if you want us to respond to your message, please include an email address, or we won't be able to.

In response to Phoenix's three email messages, the reason why we haven't posted on L Computers (http://www.go-l.com/home/index.htm) because I have yet to read or hear from anyone who's actually bought one of these things. They have some amazing technology - where else can you configure a $20,000 USD laptop (http://www.go-l.com/store/hardware/hollywood_gold.htm) - but I've been hearing "we're shipping soon" for over a year now and I'm simply not inclined to believe anything they say until I read a real review, and I know for sure that the general public can order one of these systems.

[Phoenix]

Ahhhh, you got me! :oops:

Sorry about not leaving my email address, but I wasn't asking questions - the first two times I was submitting info about a product and the third time I was merely sharing something I discovered regarding my submission. I didn't expect a response from you guys from any of the three times I had messaged you, which is why I didn't post my email. I figured you'd be able to PM me if you needed to get in touch with me for whatever reason since I'm registered here and have also contributed to several front page discussions since DMT began.

I submitted info on that product only two times - the second time was only because after some time, I thought perhaps you ultimately hadn't received or had missed my initial submission for some reason - I thought the technology was amazing and worth a second submission. But just to clarify, the third time I messaged you guys, was not to resubmit the info, but only to mention that I had recently learned from someone else that L Computers has a poor reputation, and that I never would have submitted info on what apparently is considered to be a shady company if I had known that's what they were.

But just to make a point, a company announcing a product that isn't available yet, wouldn't be reason enough alone not to post info about it, considering we've all seen many posts on these sites regarding products that were in development or had been announced or promised long before they were ready, many of which still aren't on the shelves yet (OQO anyone?). But for some reason, this company apparently is held in contempt by many people (for reasons I, myself, am not exactly clear on). And if this is truly founded, then posting product info on a company of this nature is another story altogether and I would entirely understand avoiding doing so.

But no big deal - it's not as if my feelings were hurt that my submission wasn't chosen. :P But I hope that clarifies a few things.

I do have to say, though, that the story on this company - L Computers (or whatever name they go by exactly) - is very odd to me. A company announcing product, even long before it's ready, alone wouldn't be reason enough, IMO, to attract the type of scorn I've heard from others, due to the fact that this is not an uncommon occurrence in this industry. But the problem with L seems to go beyond that, and I'm just not entirely sure why. I'm sure I'll have a better picture of everything over time. Strange, indeed.

[Jason Dunn]

Caught you! ;-)

Sorry about not leaving my email address, but I wasn't asking questions - the first two times I was submitting info about a product and the third time I was merely sharing something I discovered regarding my submission. I didn't expect a response from you guys from any of the three times I had messaged you, which is why I didn't post my email. I figured you'd be able to PM me if you needed to get in touch with me for whatever reason since I'm registered here and have also contributed to several front page discussions since DMT began.

Ah, but there's the rub - I didn't know that Pheonix was your username. Our form automatically populates the username AND email address if you're logged in, and since we never got the email address, I was assuming that you weren't a forum member. Regarding responding to you, the first time you submittted the news about L I would have responded and told you why I wasn't going to post about them. ;-) I suppose in retrospect I could have looked up the account and sent you an email saying "Hey, are you same Pheonix that contacted us about L Computers", but I have so much on my plate right now I don't have time to chase things like that down.

Anyway, this was just a good example of why it's useful for us to have an email address when people contact us. :-)

A company announcing product, even long before it's ready, alone wouldn't be reason enough, IMO, to attract the type of scorn I've heard from others, due to the fact that this is not an uncommon occurrence in this industry.

Three reasons:

1) They're products are so insanely cool they seem almost too GOOD to be true, and since they're not shipping them, it all looks like a big hoax

2) They've invented a whole bunch of new marketing-ish computer terms and have a general air of "we're better than everyone else" about them, yet ship no real products

3) People want their stuff so bad that when they can't get it, it makes them angry

[Chris Gohlke]

Cool stuff, even though I don't know what some of the stuff they list even is! I was able to price out a laptop that costs more than $36,000 8O

HGC Hollywood Gold Custom $3,999.99 $3,999.99
Logo: Rock_Signature $129.00 $129.00
Hollywood_Display: 17inch_high_res $639.00 $639.00
CacheFlow: Built-in $299.00 $299.00
SuperBIOS: Built-in
CPU: P4_3_4GHz_Extreme_800MHz $1,405.00 $1,405.00
L2_Cache: 512K
Memory: 2GB_ddr_400MHz $1,399.00 $1,399.00
Hard_Drive: puram_extended $9,479.99 $9,479.99
Graphics: ATI9700_Pro
2nd_Hard_Drive: puram_extended $9,479.99 $9,479.99
Optical_Bay_1: DVD_PLUS_MINUS_R-RW $529.00 $529.00
Hollywood_Speakers: 4x
media_bay: battery $179.00 $179.00
Digital_Audio: Built-in
Video_Out: S-Video_Out
Card_reader: built_in
Multi-Monitor_Connectivity_Pack: Multi_pack_Four $3,999.00 $3,999.00
tv_remote: Tvremote $39.00 $39.00
External_PCI_Card_Connectivity: PCI_card_four $2,999.00 $2,999.00
CCD_Video_Camera: Built-in
Firewire: 1_1394aPort
USB2: 3_Ports
Modem_GigaLAN: Built-in
modem: 56k_modem
InfraRed: Built-in
Wireless: Built-in $149.00 $149.00
Bluetooth: Built-in $99.00 $99.00
Battery: 8-cell_4400mAh
90w_ac_adapter: Extra $139.00 $139.00
car_inverter: extra_car $139.00 $139.00
Keyboard: US_English
Carrying_Case: Premium $139.00 $139.00
Warranty: 3_Extended $399.00 $399.00
RAID: raid_0_1 $195.00 $195.00
dvi_connect: dviconnect
HDTV: prem_hdtv $129.00 $129.00
ext_floppy: extfloppy $99.00 $99.00
Booster: Booster_Pack $89.00 $89.00
DVI_VGA: dvi_vga_adapter $59.00 $59.00
Total: $36,210.97

[Phoenix]

Caught you! ;-)

Ah, but there's the rub - I didn't know that Pheonix was your username. Our form automatically populates the username AND email address if you're logged in, and since we never got the email address, I was assuming that you weren't a forum member. Regarding responding to you, the first time you submittted the news about L I would have responded and told you why I wasn't going to post about them. ;-) I suppose in retrospect I could have looked up the account and sent you an email saying "Hey, are you same Pheonix that contacted us about L Computers", but I have so much on my plate right now I don't have time to chase things like that down.

Anyway, this was just a good example of why it's useful for us to have an email address when people contact us. :-)

What? How dare you talk to me that way! :lol: Nah, I'm just jokin' around, man! I completely understand. I will remember that from here on.

Three reasons:

1) They're products are so insanely cool they seem almost too GOOD to be true, and since they're not shipping them, it all looks like a big hoax

2) They've invented a whole bunch of new marketing-ish computer terms and have a general air of "we're better than everyone else" about them, yet ship no real products

3) People want their stuff so bad that when they can't get it, it makes them angry

I see what you're saying. And laptops for $20,000?? $36,000?!? :crazyeyes: OK, now I'm really starting to see - that is just completely ridiculous. What company in the world has a right to charge that much for a laptop? For anything? The military doesn't spend that much on their rugged laptops. $36,000. Yeah, I'm sure they're selling those left and right. :?

[Lee Yuan Sheng]

Looking at the specs will tell you it's a big con. A little common sense and knowledge of the PC industry will tell you that a) these things don't exist, since if they did, someone would be making them, and they would have been running big ad campaigns or publicity programs about these technologies, and b) no small two bit startup has the necessary R&D to make these things happen.. most of the time they're just buying the stuff that's available in the market and rebadging them with marketing speak. =P

[Gary Sheynkman]

it all looks like a big hoax




that sums it up really....

[Phoenix]

Looking at the specs will tell you it's a big con. A little common sense and knowledge of the PC industry will tell you that a) these things don't exist, since if they did, someone would be making them, and they would have been running big ad campaigns or publicity programs about these technologies, and b) no small two bit startup has the necessary R&D to make these things happen...

Uh, OK. So I lack common sense and knowledge of the PC industry? :lol:

Don't take any of this the wrong way, but I have a few comments regarding what you said:

First of all, just looking at their site alone wouldn't automatically indicate that they aren't being made - there are many proprietary products out there. I'd have no reason to believe right off the bat that this company was any different.

Second, there are also many companies that don't run big ad campaigns or publicity programs of any kind with their products.

And third, what about their site indicates that it's a "two-bit startup"?


Personally, I didn't bother to run over their screen specs with a microscope - I just skimmed over most of it and picked out the main things that were important to me like resolution, response time, etc. I also didn't price out any of their computer systems.

Although after Goldkey priced out one of their laptops, and anyone could realize that they're ridiculously priced, which of course raises concern, I guess what confuses me about this company is how they make any money if they're not making or shipping anything. Doesn't anyone else wonder about this? I mean, from their website, their products look pretty real to me. Doesn't look like a Photoshop job. So what's the point of putting up a website with a bunch of products that don't exist? One could say that they plan to take someone's money and then close down and disappear, but their website has been up for a very long time now, and if they simply were thieves, I have a hard time believing that they would just keep their website up and running.

Apart from the possibility of phantom-ware - a trait which many other companies out there share, I still haven't seen any concrete evidence of why these guys are considered villians of the tech industry.

...most of the time they're just buying the stuff that's available in the market and rebadging them with marketing speak. =P

Which is all I would consider it to be, which after carefully wading through the all the marketing lingo would hardly be harmful in the end, and which pretty much sums up what most every reseller in the world does to some extent.

This company is all very weird to me. :?

[Lee Yuan Sheng]

Uh, OK. So I lack common sense and knowledge of the PC industry? :lol:

no, but many do, so they get taken for a ride.


First of all, just looking at their site alone wouldn't automatically indicate that they aren't being made - there are many proprietary products out there. I'd have no reason to believe right off the bat that this company was any different.

Second, there are also many companies that don't run big ad campaigns or publicity programs of any kind with their products.

And third, what about their site indicates that it's a "two-bit startup"?


Ok, I generally meant that in a generic way, but back to this company, firstly, info on ground breaking proprietary stuff will spread pretty quicky. Think Foeven when the news first broke out. So I have a lot of doubts with technology that's from nowhere that claims to do so much.

Secondly, they will. Even if they don't, word will spread very fast. I know of VoodooPC and Alienware even though they don't run any publicity programs here.

Lastly, any two-bit startup can hire a professional web designer for not too much and look professional enough.

Doesn't anyone else wonder about this? I mean, from their website, their products look pretty real to me. Doesn't look like a Photoshop job. So what's the point of putting up a website with a bunch of products that don't exist? One could say that they plan to take someone's money and then close down and disappear, but their website has been up for a very long time now, and if they simply were thieves, I have a hard time believing that they would just keep their website up and running.


They just haven't hitched a big enough paycheck, so to speak. ;) A bit like the efilm fiasco.

Apart from the possibility of phantom-ware - a trait which many other companies out there share, I still haven't seen any concrete evidence of why these guys are considered villians of the tech industry.

Because I just don't like companies that don't give good value, and I absolutely hate companies that attempt to hype themselves while trying to make it like though they're offering premium products when they're not. Incidentally that's why I don't like any desktop computer manufacturer, and reserve special venom for Apple and Dell.

[Phoenix]

Ok, I generally meant that in a generic way, but back to this company, firstly, info on ground breaking proprietary stuff will spread pretty quicky. Think Foeven when the news first broke out. So I have a lot of doubts with technology that's from nowhere that claims to do so much.

Secondly, they will. Even if they don't, word will spread very fast. I know of VoodooPC and Alienware even though they don't run any publicity programs here.

I don't disagree with you, but this isn't what I was addressing. I was merely saying that although we can stand around and discuss the merits of whether or not a product actually exists, just a few quick looks on their website alone is no indicator that it doesn't. I was also merely pointing out that not every company runs big ad campaigns. Word of mouth is another matter altogether.

Lastly, any two-bit startup can hire a professional web designer for not too much and look professional enough.

True, but this isn't to say that a professional website is indicative of a two-bit startup.

They just haven't hitched a big enough paycheck, so to speak. ;) A bit like the efilm fiasco.

Perhaps, but the nature of online scams is to collect money fast, and split faster. Their website has been up for a long time now, and at the prices they're charging, not only are they not going to make a load of quick sales, I would be more apt to believe that it would take only one person to lose money on a very expensive product before the gig was up. Anyone with that kind of money to spend on those products would also have money to sue, and L's site, I would think, would have been down long ago if they were stealing $10,000-20,000 at a time. Also think "Class action lawsuit".

Because I just don't like companies that don't give good value, and I absolutely hate companies that attempt to hype themselves while trying to make it like though they're offering premium products when they're not...

Hey, I don't disagree with you here one bit. I can't stand companies that do this either. And even if a company's products are fantastic technically speaking, it gives them no right to ignore price point.


I'm not a proponent of L - never have been. Although I won't personally shop from or agree with the business practices of a company that advertises their products with a bunch of weird lingo or that charges crazy prices, I don't want to label a company harshly merely because of this. That would be reserved for true scam artists or thieves, and perhaps L is such a company, but so far, I haven't really seen proof of this. All of this talk about L, to me, has just been to reason through who they are exactly and what they're about, and why people are scorning them so much. For me, I never thought that the displays that L was selling were a great value - they're ridiculously expensive - I just thought a huge four panel display with some of the basic specs was pretty impressive. The rest of what they offered, I didn't even look at.

But if you want to see a company that has "Scam" written all over it (at least IMO), take a look at this: Click Here - Jackito (http://www.jackito-pda.com/index.php)

[Jason Dunn]

I was merely saying that although we can stand around and discuss the merits of whether or not a product actually exists, just a few quick looks on their website alone is no indicator that it doesn't. I was also merely pointing out that not every company runs big ad campaigns. Word of mouth is another matter altogether.

You're going through the same cycle most of us went through earlier this year when the first launched their site. Most people, myself included, went to the site and were immediately wowed by all the over-the-top "bling bling" they had, from the hardware to the impressive-sounding marketing speak (RAM-based storage? HOLY CRAP!). I sent the URL to all my friends and said "Wow, check out this awesome vendor!". But, over time, that impressiveness has turned to scorn because I haven't heard about them shipping a single system and have only read a review in Maximum PC that they're not regretting publishing (because no one can ORDER the damn thing).

I honestly don't believe it's a scam per se, more like insane marketing hype. What for, I don't really know. I'm not sure what they're playing at. Maybe they're hyping up products that might not really exist in order to sell/ship products that do (lower end systems). Heck, maybe I'll contact them for a review unit of a $20K laptop. :lol:

[Crocuta]

I'm not sure what they're playing at. Maybe they're hyping up products that might not really exist in order to sell/ship products that do (lower end systems). Heck, maybe I'll contact them for a review unit of a $20K laptop. :lol:

Maybe they're figuring that if just one sucker prepays for a $36,000 laptop, then they'll have the money to pop off to Taiwan and have something thrown together for them. Then with the other $30,000, they can live well for a couple of years on a nice island in the Carribean. :lol:

[Phoenix]

I'm not sure what they're playing at. Maybe they're hyping up products that might not really exist in order to sell/ship products that do (lower end systems). Heck, maybe I'll contact them for a review unit of a $20K laptop. :lol:

That could be. I just went to their site and looked at their laptops. I have to say, I don't know what the heck a PuRam (or Extended-capacity PuRam) HDD is. They're charging $5000-$10,000 just for the drive! 8O What the heck is that? That doesn't even sound real and I can't see where they ever once explain exactly what it is. They don't even mention what the capacity is! :? This is becoming really annoying and gradually becoming clearer to me why people are so irritated. The laptops they're selling are Clevo based designs - like Sager 8790's or Hypersonic GX7's. They're even charging $40 for the stupid remote that ordinarily comes free with any 8790/GX7 equipped with a TV tuner.

I think you should challenge them by asking them for a $25,000 system to review.

I've seen companies that do silly things or stupid things when marketing their products, and although I've known about L for quite some time now, now that I'm actually looking at their info more closely, this is just strange.

Maybe they're figuring that if just one sucker prepays for a $36,000 laptop, then they'll have the money to pop off to Taiwan and have something thrown together for them. Then with the other $30,000, they can live well for a couple of years on a nice island in the Carribean. :lol:

Yeah, really. :lol:

[Jason Dunn]

I don't know what the heck a PuRam (or Extended-capacity PuRam) HDD is. They're charging $5000-$10,000 just for the drive! 8O What the heck is that?

I think it's a RAM-based drive. i.e.: you have 2 GB of RAM that you can load software into, and it's executed at the speed of RAM rather than a hard drive that's 1000's of times slower. Cool concept, but I've never seen it implemented in a consumer-level product.

[Lee Yuan Sheng]

RAM disk drives are available.. it's a matter of you wanting to pay for it, that's all. =P

[Jason Dunn]

RAM disk drives are available.. it's a matter of you wanting to pay for it, that's all. =P

Right. Which is why I said a consumer level product. I've seen some enterprise/server type products, but never anything integrated into a laptop aimed at the general consumer market. ;-)

[Phoenix]

I think it's a RAM-based drive. i.e.: you have 2 GB of RAM that you can load software into, and it's executed at the speed of RAM rather than a hard drive that's 1000's of times slower. Cool concept, but I've never seen it implemented in a consumer-level product.

Well, I figured that it was RAM based, but I was trying to imagine exactly what that kind of a module would look like, the casing, etc. - I've never actually seen one and didn't know they existed - so I was thinking, "What on earth is this thing?". And without knowing the capacity, the speed factor alone makes it impossible to truly understand it's value. Interesting concept, though.

How do you know that it was 2GB, or are you just takin' a guess? I didn't happen to see the capacity of these "drives" on their site. Are you aware of what the maximum capacity could be for a single RAM drive? (Not just for a laptop, but for a desktop or server as well)? I'm curious.

Although I'd love to have a HDD solution that operated as fast as RAM, apart from speed, why would someone want to replace a 60 GB 7200rpm HDD, for example, (which seems to work for practically everyone else out there, including the military for many applications) with only a 2GB RAM drive, when they could place that much and potentially more into their system as typical DDR RAM, anyway, and of course, for a much lower cost? Especially when considering the added speed and capacity someone could achieve with a RAID 0 setup (even in a laptop). The only difference that I can see between typical RAM and a RAM drive would be non-volatility with the RAM drive.

Based on only 2GB and the above statements, it seems that even though you'd be gaining a lot of speed, you'd be sacrificing an awful lot - capacity and money.

I think this way because I would think that any scientists or researchers, for example, who thought they could take advantage of this kind of speed, would need a lot more than a few gigs of non-volatile storage for their apps. But even if the capacities for a RAM drive were equal to that of the HDD's we typically use, while also considering the highest end needs, I'm trying to understand where something like this would truly be required apart from military applications. When thinking of other industries, I think of a company like Pixar, for example, who would need the highest end equipment to accomplish their tasks - aren't they just using high speed SCSI or serial drives for their work? The military could justify the expense of high capacity RAM drives, but apart from simply wanting to have the technology, I wonder what other industries could honestly justify the expense?