A Crisis of Faith: Audio Encoding Formats...

[Jason Dunn]

Ok, I have something to admit to all of you: last week I ripped a CD in...MP3 format! 8O That may surprise some of you because I've been an ardent supporter of WMA for several years now, and my entire collection of ripped CDs is in WMA format. I still think it's a fantastic format (more efficient than MP3 from a size point of view), but I get frustrated at compatibility issues. Now and then I run across applications that can't work with WMA audio - I was doing a big Photo Story project on my laptop last week and had Cool Edit 2000 installed for working with audio. I needed to edit a WMA file, and the software (which is a bit old, I'll grant you that - I didn't have Sound Forge 6.0 installed on that laptop) wouldn't open the WMA file! I had to burn the WMA file to CD, then rip it as an MP3 just to be able to work with it! Talk about a hassle.<br /><br />I typically rip in VBR WMA format, and a few months back I took a CD with VBR WMA songs to a local electronics store - I wanted to get a new CD deck for my car, but it was important that it supported my audio format. Several decks claimed to support WMA, but evidently not 9 Series WMA VBR. Not a single deck, even the high-end Pioneer deck, would play the music on the CD-R that I brought in. If my music was in MP3 format, it would have played it just fine.<br /><br />So what's a geek to do? Should I keep using WMA and focus more on seeking out software and hardware that works with WMA? Or should I switch back to the more compatible but ancient MP3 format? How do you approach this?

[Doug Johnson]

Upgrade CoolEdit to Adobe Audition. It's a much more powerful application, and CoolEdit users get a pretty significant discount. And it supports WMA.

I'm with you... WMA is way better than MP3 as far as sound quality. I did an A/B comparison (blind test) for some untrained ears, and in every case WMA was selected as the better sounding format.

Now if we can only get Sony to support WMA on their car CD changers...

[marlof]

It's exactly the compatibility issues that had me stick to MP3 so far when I rip my CDs. I find 128 kbps MP3 good enough for my ears, and songs end up in small enough files to fit a days worth on a 256 MB card. But I'm not the best judge when it comes to sound quality: I care more about what music is playing, than about how the music that is playing sounds. :)

[dean_shan]

I've stuck with MP3 for those vary resons. You rip in 160VBR MP3 and you can play that sucker anywhere on anything.

[bryhawks]

I am so choked! I was thinking of getting a new deck, specifically for the purpose of listening to my music collection on WMA 9 VBR. I had the Pioneer decks in mind (particularly the 4600 for $219 CND), and this is just not right. I had been wondering if these decks supported *all* the WMA formats, and I guess now I know.

Is there no way to update (via firmware or software) the codecs in these decks? This should definitely be brought to the attention of the manufacturers, and I'll definitely do my part in informing Pioneer that a) if they're going to support the WMA format, support it in a way that takes advantage of its benefits (i.e. VBR), and b) they've lost a customer for now.

[Jason Dunn]

I am so choked! I was thinking of getting a new deck, specifically for the purpose of listening to my music collection on WMA 9 VBR. I had the Pioneer decks in mind (particularly the 4600 for $219 CND), and this is just not right. I had been wondering if these decks supported *all* the WMA formats, and I guess now I know.

Well, they might be out there, but it seems that "WMA support" isn't as clear-cut as I had hoped. The decks I looked at probably supported WMA8, but I thought that WMA was more or less backwards and forwards compatible. I think it was the VBR that caused the problems...maybe things are better now. That's one of my summer projects - to track down a deck that will do WMAs properly. We'll see if my friends at Microsoft can help with that. ;-)

[EscapePod]

I know it sounds crazy, but when I rip, I always do one .MP3 and one .WMA.

While I use the .MP3 for most desktop and PC duties and for the CD in my truck's JVC receiver, I use the .WMA for all my music for my Pocket PC.

[ctmagnus]

I do a lowish bitrate WMA for my Pocket PC and a high bitrate MP3 for desktop/player use. I've been leaning towards WMA for the latter lately, but the lack of ubiquity of the format leads me away.

[Jonathon Watkins]

I know it sounds crazy, but when I rip, I always do one .MP3 and one .WMA.

It sounds kind of sensible in an odd way - less hassle, but the HD manufactures must love you! :wink: :lol:

[Zack Mahdavi]

I rip in mp3 mainly for the Pocket PC support. Once companies like Conduits introduce AAC support for their music players, then I'll definitely be converting to AAC.

[Jason Dunn]

I know it sounds crazy, but when I rip, I always do one .MP3 and one .WMA.

I used to do that myself - I have about 50 albums in WMA format - but ultimately I found it to be too much of a hassle, and I don't like having to manage two collections.

[Mojo Jojo]

(Puts on evil beanie hat and stirs up trouble)

You could get a iPod and a Dension ICELink Connector (http://www.densionusa.com/x/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=375&Itemid=79) and just use the iPod like a cd-changer right from your radio. Stick the connector in the glovebox, cupholder, or even snazzy clip holder for the dash.

Get any radio you wish that has a cd-changer option. :)

[James Fee]

(Puts on evil beanie hat and stirs up trouble)

I was thinking the same thing. Why not just hook your MP3 player (I guess in your case it would be WMA Player) up to your car. A trip to Radio Shack and a connection to the rear of my car stereo and this is what I end up with:

http://members.cox.net/jamesf1/media/ipod.jpg

[klinux]

I used to rip in MP3 and then to WMA when WMA9 came out. Then I got a Mac and found out how cool iTunes is and ripped in AAC when that came out. However, after experimenting for a while and also due to the fact that storage price has dropped so much, I am now back to ripping in MP3, albeit now at a higher rate of 256k VBR, for maximum compatibility across the various platforms I use.

[Jason Dunn]

I was thinking the same thing. Why not just hook your MP3 player...

Been there, done that, it sucked (for my needs at least). I want simplicity, elegance, and just plain EASY. Having to remember an audio player when I get in the car, making sure it's charged, mussing with cables, etc. just isn't my thing.

[James Fee]

It isn't easy being you is it? ;)

[Jason Dunn]

It isn't easy being you is it? ;)

Nope. Just ask my wife. :lol:

[mcsouth]

:D Okay, so I guess I'm still a bit behind the curve - I've been ripping at a fairly low rate wma, primarily because I tend to listen to my music using my PPC, 64 wma's sound fine on it, and I just don't want the hassle of managing two music collections. I had thought that I would be okay when I upgraded my car stereo, considering how many list wma compatiblility (and maybe my straight rate wma's would be okay...), but finding that may not be the case is a bit discouraging......

Does anyone know how feasible it would be to rip a collection to a high bit rate format like MP3 or WMA, and then batch convert to a different format as desired? How much would you lose from the second conversion? If you could set it so that it would auto-convert as you transferred files to your player/car stereo (you know, that Wi-Fi enabled unit?), etc - granted, it would be processor-intensive (read: slow... :P ), but it would allow one master collection that would be optimized for each device that you push music to.

Does such a solution exist today?

[Mojo Jojo]

I want simplicity, elegance, and just plain EASY. Having to remember an audio player when I get in the car, making sure it's charged, mussing with cables, etc. just isn't my thing.

Here is my strange thought of the day... what you need is something that is just in my head (and probably others but I can't read their minds to be sure)... you need a Wi-Fi radio, or a Wi-Fi in car computer.

Essentially it is this...
Your car has a 'device' in it that has Wi-Fi abilities. When you pull into the drive way it senses your home network and adds itself and broadcasts to the network 'I'm home!'. At this point your home PC is listening and sees if you have had any new songs added. If it does it syncs up your collection and zips them off to the cars media storage. In addition the home PC has also gotten your emails and internet news and converted them into spoken word 'WMA' format and pushed them into the 'email' and 'news' playlist respectively.

Now you can listen to all your music, or listen to your email or news while driving.

Now if you throw out the windows components (I am not up to speed there, but I think you could do with windows components too) and go with an i-Book, a DC-AC converter for the car, Wi-Fi card, Apple script to do batch commands for e-mail and news, a program called Listen Later (http://www.lajdesignsw.com/listenlater.html), and iTunes.... you have all your components.

So the question I have is... how much would you be willing to pay for 'Easy'? The tech is there.

[JTWise]

Here is my strange thought of the day... what you need is something that is just in my head (and probably others but I can't read their minds to be sure)... you need a Wi-Fi radio, or a Wi-Fi in car computer.

A friend of mine found this solution from Omnifi - seems to do almost everything that you list.

http://www.omnifimedia.com/home/

I didn't spend much time looking at prices or features, but I think the car component is $600 and the home receiver is $300, plus whatever you need to hook to the computer (software only?).

So the question I have is... how much would you be willing to pay for 'Easy'? The tech is there.
In the end, I talked her in to a Creative Nomad Zen 40Gig player instead. So for her, easy was worth $250, not $1,000. Still, I hope this Omnifi product is a sign of things to come.

[Mojo Jojo]

A friend of mine found this solution from Omnifi - seems to do almost everything that you list.

Wow, nice find. Thanks for the post!

[GadgetDave]

I am so choked! I was thinking of getting a new deck, specifically for the purpose of listening to my music collection on WMA 9 VBR. I had the Pioneer decks in mind (particularly the 4600 for $219 CND), and this is just not right. I had been wondering if these decks supported *all* the WMA formats, and I guess now I know.

Well, they might be out there, but it seems that "WMA support" isn't as clear-cut as I had hoped. The decks I looked at probably supported WMA8, but I thought that WMA was more or less backwards and forwards compatible. I think it was the VBR that caused the problems...maybe things are better now. That's one of my summer projects - to track down a deck that will do WMAs properly. We'll see if my friends at Microsoft can help with that. ;-)

Theoretically, WMA (Audio) is backward compatible from 9 to 7 with the Standard WMA codec. If you use some of the new 9 codecs (like PRO or VOICE), you'll have problems. I'm guessing you're right, and the VBR is what confused it. That's why I'm still using CBR, but everything (700+ CDs) is ripped to WMA.

But I haven't upped for the in-dash player, I have my Dell Jukebox and a short stereo-to-stereo cord, and plug it in my current stereo "aux in" - Much better to carry 20GB that way and not a bunch of CDs. And with that battery life, as long as I charge it at night, it's all good!

[butch]

I had to burn the WMA file to CD, then rip it as an MP3 just to be able to work with it! Talk about a hassle.

LOL!
Use WinAMP Disk Writer output plug-in... It why create a WAV out of any music file you play, then do whatever you want with the WAV... but it seem really slow with WMA, I'd never tried that before... maybe the CD burning was faster after all :-)

[Montego]

OK, here's my method as part of the Proud Minority. I rip directly from CD to Minidisc. On occasion I also transferred .mp3 and .wma to MD as well. I've got a Kenwood MD car audio system. Along with both a portable recorder and a home deck, I'm just really happy with MD, and friends I've convinced to switch are happy as well,

I'm not sure why MD has not caught on as much in the USA as it has in Asia and Europe. And, before all of you naysayers blast me for this "ancient" technology, know this:

Last year MD players/recorders were the biggest gainers as far as units sold. Of course, that's according to Sony :)

In July, watch out for the new "Hi-MD" format. It has one-gig discs (a little over $3.00 a disc) re-writable(of course) 7 hours per disc in highest quality mode, 45 hours in LP4 mode. Also you can now put data files on Hi-MD for transfer to your PC. And it is backwards compatible with current MD technology.

I really think you should give this format a new look in July.

[Lee Yuan Sheng]

LP4 stinks though. I'm still trying to figure out what mode the portable units NH1 and NH3D can use for recording..

[Montego]

LP4 stinks though..

I never use LP4 for music, but I do use it a lot to burn audio books from Audible, and that has worked great for me. Drawback is that I have to burn to CD-RW first and then use those to go to MD. I hope Audible and Sony will one day cooperate so I can burn Audible files direct to MD.

[adderx99]

sorry, i rip to wav files only now. loss-less is the only way to go. :D

listen to a good, full range song at 96kbs with headphones, and you will be ruined for life like me.

[Suhit Gupta]

sorry, i rip to wav files only now. loss-less is the only way to go. :D

listen to a good, full range song at 96kbs with headphones, and you will be ruined for life like me.
Yeah, but don't rip them at 96, try something a lot higher, like 192 or 256 and you won't really be able to tell the difference.

Suhit