ExtremeTech: "Gmail: Stop The Whining"

[Suhit Gupta]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,1570399,00.asp?kc=ETRSS02129TX1K0000532' target='_blank'>http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,1570399,00.asp?kc=ETRSS02129TX1K0000532</a><br /><br /></div>"Search engine superpower Google recently announced its intentions to offer free a Web mail service, called Gmail, to its users. Well, as we all know, no good deed goes unpunished and Gmail is no exception. As soon as the Internet giant announced the specifics of its offering, privacy advocates and others began lambasting the company, complaining that Google's policies would violate user's privacy rights. While legitimate feedback on such a service can be useful, some "advocates" have gone off the deep end and engaged in outright and crass demonization of Google."<br /><br /><img src="http://www.digitalmediathoughts.com/images/gmail.gif" /><br /><br />So we haven't posted on Gmail for a while but I think it is time to stir that discussion up again :). Gmail, Google's free 1GB of email storage service has given rise to a lot of controversy among those worried about privacy. Many people seemed horrified by the idea of their emails being scanned and were vehemently against it. From reading the comments on previous posts about Gmail here on DMT, most people didn't seem to care about Google scanning emails and doing their targeted advertising thing. But this article from extremetech.com looks at the service from the pro- standpoint (a very pro standpoint).

[schergr]

It's about time someone else said this. I wrote a piece over on Weblogs Inc. entitled The Great GMail Debate of 2004 (http://spam.weblogsinc.com/entry/4857521329796276/). Basically it goes a little something like this. EVERYONE JUST SHUT UP ALREADY AND LEARN ABOUT TECHNOLOGY BEFORE YOU COMPLAIN ABOUT GOOGLE. &lt;empahsis> mine ;)

Actually, it starts out like this

"...The much maligned Google GMail service, while not even released to the general public has come under intense scrutiny. What appears to be lost in this whole debate is recognition of the fact that every single e-mail that we send and receive (there are always caveats here so bear with me) must traverse a series of points and pass through many different scans along its journey...."

Stop by and get the full scoop (http://spam.weblogsinc.com).

or just stop by my personal blog The Epicenter (http://epicenter.involvu.net) and tell me what a fool you think I am :)

[Gary Sheynkman]

It is so sad that when people get a free service they also demand that the provider takes a hit with ever customer....

[Tim Williamson]

Yeah that article makes some great points, if you're worried about privacy, DON'T USE gMail, don't use ANY free email service for that matter. Use PGP or some type of encryption.

And there goes the wonderful Democrats again, "concerned" about the little guy who's always being a victim to EVIL BIG BUSINESS. The big difference is that REAL victims don't choose to be victims...using gMail is a choice, you're not a victim if you use gMail, you're a willing user.

Anyone know if gMail will offer POP3 service? Would they just insert ads at the bottom of the email or something?

[Jason Dunn]

ExtremeTech has it nailed - this is a bunch of FUD and if people don't want to use the service, they don't have to. It's an unfortunate North American mentality where people hear about something and they think they have a RIGHT to it, then BITCH AND MOAN when it doesn't work exactly the way they think it should. :roll:

[Crocuta]

Yeah, I just don't get all the fuss. The only thing Google should have to do is be honest up front about what information is used and how it's used. That is, it shouldn't be able to be buried half way down a 30-page user agreement, but should be clearly noted at the time of registration so that people understand the tradeoff they're making. After that, if someone wants to agree to share their information in return for free email, that's their business. I must admit, I wouldn't like Google to scan all of my emails. So gosh, I guess I just won't sign up. Hey, that was easy!

[Jason Dunn]

Yeah, I just don't get all the fuss. The only thing Google should have to do is be honest up front about what information is used and how it's used.

But that's the goofy part - the service isn't even public yet! It's on a limited, 1000 person beta, so most of the world has no basis to even complain yet... :roll:

[Gary Sheynkman]

Darn...I signed up for it too :lol:

Here is the thing though: hotmail is choke full of ads that largely suck (I dont want to date middle aged women nor do I plan on smoking either) If google can use key words like "digital" or "sony" to make ads that are atleast relevant to what the user recieves why haggle for it? Most corporate users dont use free email so why care about invasion of privacy (that is not actually there) oy :roll:

[coffeeFreak]

My concern with Gmail is not with privacy, but with reliability. Last I heard, Google uses commodity machines as their data center, massively clustered and redundant, they are able to afford machines going down (some for weeks before being replaced) all of these to reduce cost of operation. The unstability (and achieving service reliability through redundancy) works for indexing service, since index data are duplicated across multiple machines/database, and most machines are just doing index searching (not storing). I worry more about e-mails, if the *cheap* machine that my e-mail sit on went bye-bye, will I lose my e-mail? I haven't heard of any info regarding their different storage model, have anyone heard of anything?

[Steve]

If your e mail is important, I recomend getting a pay service which is well known for reliability. Free services aren't a great way to go if you deal with e mail that's important to you or others.

I don't get why people complain about gmail either. The only complaint I have is that it would be annoying trying to fill up one gig :) I love filling up space. With relevant stuff, anyhow.

I have a lot of respect for companies making leaps forward in improving services. If all they do is scan my e mail, so be it. I'd let them read it a million time sif they wanted to... If I'm using a free service, I expect nothing. People who act like google services owes them something or seem to think they are entitled to something are probably the same type of people who use programs like kazaa for poor reasons. Or maybe they really don't understand the basics of our western economies.

edit: Come to think of it, I really think 90% of the internet think everything on the 'net is supposed to be free. And so... It may as well be high quality. And hey, if they have to take the time to login and type their password and click the button and everyhting... I guess they deserve some sort of a pat on the back.

[wesley762]

My question about gmail is how larger of attachments are they going to allow? I would love to have a e-mail that could transfer large pictures to family.

[Tim Williamson]

I worry more about e-mails, if the *cheap* machine that my e-mail sit on went bye-bye, will I lose my e-mail? I haven't heard of any info regarding their different storage model, have anyone heard of anything?

Last I heard, since they have an IPO coming up soon, they're trying to cut costs where they can, so they've decided to go the 3.5" floppy disk route to backup the data. ;)

[Pony99CA]

Yeah, I just don't get all the fuss. The only thing Google should have to do is be honest up front about what information is used and how it's used.
But that's the goofy part - the service isn't even public yet! It's on a limited, 1000 person beta, so most of the world has no basis to even complain yet... :roll:
I agree that as long as Google is up front about what they do with the E-mail, so people can make an informed decision, privacy advocates should shut up (and I believe in strong privacy legislation as in Great Britain). The question is, does Google make it obvious?

However, just because the service isn't public yet doesn't mean that details aren't known. Even if the people are under a Non-Disclosure Agreement, we all know that things "slip" out. Yes, the implementation may change during the beta, but I don't have a problem with people rationally pointing out the trade-offs of the service as it currently exists if those trade-offs aren't obvious. The problem seems to be that many of the critics are doom-and-gloom types, not rational.

To take an example from another site you own, I don't mind people pointing out the limitations of a new Pocket PC (like the iPAQ 6300). However, if people start trashing the device before it's even available, that's going too far.

Steve

[Pony99CA]

I worry more about e-mails, if the *cheap* machine that my e-mail sit on went bye-bye, will I lose my e-mail? I haven't heard of any info regarding their different storage model, have anyone heard of anything?
Last I heard, since they have an IPO coming up soon, they're trying to cut costs where they can, so they've decided to go the 3.5" floppy disk route to backup the data. ;)
Actually, they got a great deal from IBM on unused punch cards. We all know that paper outlasts any digital media. As long as no chads are left hanging, it should be all good. :rofl: (Hey, where's the Pocket PC Thoughts :rotfl: rolling smiley?)

Steve

[Jason Dunn]

My question about gmail is how larger of attachments are they going to allow? I would love to have a e-mail that could transfer large pictures to family.

Yeah, that's the real question isn't it? If they stick a 1 MB limit on it like Hotmail does, it will suck. But I doubt they'll allow 50 MB files either...we'll have to wait and see. :-)

I've got a friend on the Gmail beta - I'll ask him to check...

[Jason Dunn]

Ok, the attachment limit is 10 MB. Not bad at all! Anything more than that would be unwieldy for email anyway...

[Gary Sheynkman]

10 is awesome...you can send all the pics you want to that 1gb account!

[Suhit Gupta]

I think this is going to be a great conduit for people sharing mp3s and videos. Although I wonder if they will detect that you are sending an mp3 so you may want to buy an mp3 player. Or worse, they recommend software that will help you rip CDs to mp3s ;-).

Suhit

[wesley762]

10 mbs would be great as thats the maxs on my cable account. good news to hear thanks.

[asglobal]

Who is posting and running this web site, a bunch of corporate cronies? People who are only concerned with making money, and dare not offend any potential customers!

The law is written to protect those who cannot protect themselves. The ignorant, the uneducated, and the uninformed! Google is trying to take advantage of people. Marking, money, and greed! And it is people like you who are allowing it to happen.

Yes, Google is a free service, and yes people do not have to sign up for it. But it is also quickly becoming a monopoly. The old anti-trust laws have not kept up with new technology (take Microsoft for example) and it is the peoples’ responsibility to ensure to fair and just practices. Not simply say, “oh thank you Google may I please have another”!

Many people in American still have very limited access to the internet. And this is particularly true in poor and disadvantage communities. These are now the people that have become forced to abide by a different set of rules. Yes, you can have email, but we can have access to it. The rich and powerful, would never give up their rights so easily.

People like you, don’t because they don’t have to!!

But your free an enhanced internet experiences are coming at a great cost to those less fortunate. Everyone put your hand in your pockets a pull out a dollar for poor Google, because corporate welfare is still alive and thriving.

Sincerely,

Shame on Google

[Jason Dunn]

You've officially won the "Craziest Post Ever on DMT" award - and that's not a good thing. 8O

Who is posting and running this web site, a bunch of corporate cronies? People who are only concerned with making money, and dare not offend any potential customers!

Are you talking about THIS site, Digital Media Thoughts, or are you talking about the site that we linked to? Either way, those are some pretty harsh accusations. I take issue with almost everything you're saying - it smacks of fear mongering rather that factual thinking. I'm no fan of corporate greed myself, but Google is a business, and if they're going to offer 1 GB of free email storage, there has to be a business reason for it. Google is betting they can make money with advertising by offering that service. So what's wrong with that?

The law is written to protect those who cannot protect themselves. The ignorant, the uneducated, and the uninformed! Google is trying to take advantage of people.

Protect themselves from what? What exploitation is there in Google's proposed system? Are you talking about a computer dynamically displaying advertising based on the content of an email message rather than

Yes, Google is a free service, and yes people do not have to sign up for it. But it is also quickly becoming a monopoly.

What? You're claiming that Google's yet un-launched email program, that only 1000 beta testers are now using, is a monopoly? What about Hotmail, Yahoo, and there other free email services? You're saying they don't exist in this market?

Many people in American still have very limited access to the internet. And this is particularly true in poor and disadvantage communities. These are now the people that have become forced to abide by a different set of rules. Yes, you can have email, but we can have access to it. The rich and powerful, would never give up their rights so easily.

If you're saying that people who have money can do things that people with no money cannot, that's true. It's called REALITY. What planet are you from? It's not like we're talking about health care or basic nutrition here - it's friggin' EMAIL!

You should be APPLAUDING the fact that Google is offer 1 GB of space for email! Why? Because the "poor and disadvantaged" (your words, not mine) will finally have a real email solution that they can use for day to day messages, not an anaemic 5 MB account with Hotmail that's constantly overflowing with junk mail and bouncing messages. Google is re-defining the playing field and making free email a much better solution for everyone.

If you really think email is a God-given right, lobby your local politician to set up government-based email that will be paid for with your tax dollars. Go ahead, try it - see how far you can go.

This post deserves an eye-rolling more than anything I've seen in months. :roll:

[asglobal]

Again, anyone that disagrees with corporation viewpoint is a fanatic, uniformed, or simply ignorant theories of political economy.

When is the last time you or your viewers read a balanced discussion about the digital divide, about issues with the lack of computers in schools, or the future crisis of technologically literate workers?

How about the intellectual debate of the Patriot Act? A discussion of the RISS.Net (the federal justice information integration effort, or Terrorist Database)?

Certainly, the Google email service doesn’t reach the level of these issues. At least not at this time, but what about in the future? What are the implications of such actions? Certain the European Union lawmakers must also be ignorant since they raised these issues.

You say that it doesn’t matter, that is it not like food stamps, or shelter, but it is. Are you aware of eGovernment, the efforts to online government agencies, or CLEAR the Chicago Community Policing Project? These are good things, however, they depend on access to the internet, access that is private and free from intrusion.

Regardless, of what side you come down on, the lack of compilation of the issues, and considerations of future implications is ignorant.

Sincerely,

Ignorant Political Economy Theorist

P.S. So, when your organization posts negative things about a product paying for advertising, your not at all concerned about the implications to your bottom line.

[Pony99CA]

Who is posting and running this web site, a bunch of corporate cronies? People who are only concerned with making money, and dare not offend any potential customers!
Yes, up until now, everybody that posted here is a corporate crony.

Jason, how did this guy get through your rigorous screening that has so far managed to keep the great unwashed masses out? I almost spit out my cucumber tea sandwich when I read this. :roll:

The law is written to protect those who cannot protect themselves. The ignorant, the uneducated, and the uninformed! Google is trying to take advantage of people. Marking, money, and greed! And it is people like you who are allowing it to happen.
Yes, the law is written to protect people. However, I hardly think Google is trying to "take advantage" of people. They're offering a service which, like most things, has some trade-offs. As long as they aren't trying to deceive people, they aren't doing anything wrong.

Many people in American still have very limited access to the internet. And this is particularly true in poor and disadvantage communities. These are now the people that have become forced to abide by a different set of rules. Yes, you can have email, but we can have access to it. The rich and powerful, would never give up their rights so easily.
This service will give the poor better access than other free E-mail services, because you'll be able to keep E-mail longer. If someone is so poor that they can only get E-mail by using free computers at their local library, and they can only visit there occasionally, this means they'll be a lot less likely to lose E-mail because of a full mailbox.

As for all of us "rich and powerful" people, I suspect many of us will choose to get an account when we can. Notice the word "choose" there?

But your free an enhanced internet experiences are coming at a great cost to those less fortunate. Everyone put your hand in your pockets a pull out a dollar for poor Google, because corporate welfare is still alive and thriving.
Where's the welfare? The government isn't paying Google anything, which is what "corporate welfare" is about. Also, we won't have to pull a dollar out of our pockets -- it's a free service. :roll:

Steve

[Pony99CA]

You've officially won the "Craziest Post Ever on DMT" award - and that's not a good thing. 8O
Maybe he wanted to christen the Hall of Flame & Shame. :lol:

Yes, Google is a free service, and yes people do not have to sign up for it. But it is also quickly becoming a monopoly.
What? You're claiming that Google's yet un-launched email program, that only 1000 beta testers are now using, is a monopoly? What about Hotmail, Yahoo, and there other free email services? You're saying they don't exist in this market?

Actually, I think he was referring more to their expansion. Google supposedly dominates search, and now is using that "monopoly" to expand into E-mail, similar to how Microsoft used their dominance to expand into other markets (office, Web browsing, media players, PDAs, cell phones, etc.). People have sued Google because of their supposed power.

However, I think it's far too early to claim Google has a monopoly. Even if they do, a monopoly isn't inherently illegal -- using that monopoly to damage competition is what is illegal, and I don't see that Google has done that.

If you really think email is a God-given right, lobby your local politician to set up government-based email that will be paid for with your tax dollars. Go ahead, try it - see how far you can go.
Actually, in the U.S., the government already does similar things. We "rich" people pay extra money every month on our phone bills to pay for phone service in other communities that wouldn't be served. We also pay money every month to bring Internet access to schools, I believe.

Maybe asglobal conveniently forgot that....

Steve

[ctmagnus]

It may be more than 1000 beta testers now. I notice that blogger.com has an option to sign up for Gmail once you're signed into blogger.

[Suhit Gupta]

I don't see how Google is abusing their monopoly here. Granted that they rock beyong all other in searching, but abusing their monopoly would be something like - you are allowed to search only if you have signed up for Gmail - and AFAICT, there is no plan to do so. They have come up with a service, and whether you like that service or not, at least they are being completely up front about their policies. If you feel that you don't want your email scanned then don't sign up :).

Suhit

[Jason Dunn]

It may be more than 1000 beta testers now. I notice that blogger.com has an option to sign up for Gmail once you're signed into blogger.

Yup, I just signed up today when I went to Blogger.com and they offered me a slot on the beta. Pretty cool so far, although it's not on a very fast server(s).

[Kacey Green]

ExtremeTech has it nailed - this is a bunch of FUD and if people don't want to use the service, they don't have to. It's an unfortunate North American mentality where people hear about something and they think they have a RIGHT to it, then BITCH AND MOAN when it doesn't work exactly the way they think it should. :roll:

I like how he didn't say American :D is that just the US and Canada? or Mexico too?

you've been to Mexico, I haven't