Downloading MP3s from other countries

[signothefish]

I am subscribed to a music download service in Russia called Club MP3 Search. You can listen to entire songs in stream format and then purchase it if you like it. They have all kinds of music that is difficult or impossible to get in the US through online music stores. But they also have a lot of popular songs like Britney, MJ, etc. The songs there are dirt cheap. On average, a 192kbps song costs about US $0.05. Their legal statement is as follows:

"All audio-visual materials are placed on Club.MP3Search.Ru according to conditions of the license agreement (# LS-R,V,Z-01-17 from 31-07-2001) between company "X-Media LTD." and "Russian Organization For Multimedia and Digital Systems" (ROMS). Company "X-Media LTD." makes license deductions for use of all materials, getting under action of the above-stated license agreement."

Anyone know of the legality of downloading this music as opposed to the US music services? The site is at:

http://club.mp3search.ru/

[Jason Dunn]

I'm not a lawyer, but my understanding of this is that they're simply selling out of a country that has no copyright laws, so your MP3s are no more "legal" than what you'd get off of Kazaa. I'm sure the artists don't get any of that money, so this is simply a more structured illegal file sharing service. :?

[signothefish]

Most of the songs I download from there are ones from artists/record labels that are not in the US. Would the RIAA have jurisdiction over these files?

[Jason Dunn]

Most of the songs I download from there are ones from artists/record labels that are not in the US. Would the RIAA have jurisdiction over these files?

To me, this isn't a matter of legal jurisdiction, it's about whether or not the artist sees money from your payment. This service charges 1 penny per MB of the source file, so realistically, you're not paying anything to the artist who's music you're paying to hear - so, again, what's the difference between this service and Kazaa? It's no more legal or ethical.

[signothefish]

So if I want a copy of these songs, I need to buy it from overseas, and pay a hefty price to get them since they're imports - correct? We're talking up to US$30 for each album, when all I want off each album is maybe 1 or 2 songs. That's $15 a song! Is there a better way? Can't I get some music services here in the US to start carrying these artists? I'll gladly pay $0.88 for a song, but I'm not paying $15 for one. Most importantly, I don't want to break the law, or at the least want to ensure that money gets into the original artists' pockets.

[opus]

I'm not sure I agree with you, Jason. First, what is the "real" price of a song, given zero distribution costs? And of the $17 we pay in the US for a CD, how much does the artist see? If it's a Russian artist, maybe actually getting cash in hand 25 cents per CD is more than the zilch they get from pirated/Kazaa versions, and maybe more than they would get after a big-media publishing company deducts all of their "advances" for marketing and distribuition.

Not saying this is right in this case, this store may be just an illegal front and maybe the artist sees nothing, but I don't think we should rule it out as automatically Kazaa-equivalent. Actual expenses may be quite low, particularly when translated to $.

-- Opus

[Jason Dunn]

So if I want a copy of these songs, I need to buy it from overseas, and pay a hefty price to get them since they're imports - correct? We're talking up to US$30 for each album, when all I want off each album is maybe 1 or 2 songs. That's $15 a song! Is there a better way? Can't I get some music services here in the US to start carrying these artists? I'll gladly pay $0.88 for a song, but I'm not paying $15 for one. Most importantly, I don't want to break the law, or at the least want to ensure that money gets into the original artists' pockets.

This is a tough scenario - I hear what you're saying, but unfortunately that's the way the world works with commerce. If someone has a product that you want, sometimes it doesn't make financial sense to get it if the cost is too high. So it comes down to an issue of the price being higher than you're willing to pay...which is the same reason I don't have an Audi today. :wink:

Have you tried getting in touch with these artists or their management to ask how you can purchase their music afford-ably, or if they have their songs listed with an online service? Alternatively, perhaps places like iTunes accept requests for new artists they should contact?

Ultimately this is an issue of personal morality - I've used Kazaa to find things that aren't available for purchase, like live versions of songs, and your situation is similar (although not quite).

[Jason Dunn]

First, what is the "real" price of a song, given zero distribution costs?

Why do people think that songs record themselves? The costs of recording, mastering, mixing, printing CDs, and everything else in the process is not cheap. Music is a machine with many cogs, not just a singer with a microphone and a tape recorder. :wink:

And of the $17 we pay in the US for a CD, how much does the artist see?

In North America, about a buck. I don't know much much they get when someone buys a 99 cent song.

...but I don't think we should rule it out as automatically Kazaa-equivalent. Actual expenses may be quite low, particularly when translated to $.

I'm certainly open to being wrong on this issue - perhaps it is legit - but I'm 99% sure it's not. Piracy is rampant in Russia, and the fact that they're charging by the MB hints to me that they're doing a bandwidth + profit calculation, and the artist or label isn't factored in here.

[signothefish]

I agree based on your input that the site has illegal copies of much of the music on there. Otherwise, how are the artists making any money from the sales there? But I'm not asking for an Audi here. I don't see music as automobiles. Maybe an Audi is worth $35k, but no song is worth $15.

[Jason Dunn]

But I'm not asking for an Audi here. I don't see music as automobiles. Maybe an Audi is worth $35k, but no song is worth $15.

<shrug> It's economics. You want a product, but you're not willing to pay the price to get it, and you're getting it illegally instead. Those are the facts - I can't say I blame you, I wouldn't want to spent $30 to get a CD imported from Europe, but that doesn't change the facts of how you're getting it. But I'm not throwing stones here - in the past I've used Kazaa to get singles that I couldn't buy online, so I'm not pretending to be perfect. ;-)

[signothefish]

I would prefer to see that the artists get some of that money. I guess it's an all-or-nothing situation.

[Jason Dunn]

I would prefer to see that the artists get some of that money. I guess it's an all-or-nothing situation.

Yeah, it seems that way. :( Talk about frustrating - I wish more artists and record labels would get their music onto online services...

[Raven]

Yeah, it seems that way. :( Talk about frustrating - I wish more artists and record labels would get their music onto online services...

I agree too. I wish I could just log on to a bands website and download whole albums in some lossless format. Of course it would be priced a little cheaper than store audio CDs since I loose out on the album cover and insert. :wink:

Maybe the fan sites can help out in convincing the bands to look into the option of selling music online on their own. But then, trying to get the record labels to agree to that....bah...forget it, who am I kidding. Big artists will never be able to get out of the clutches of the big 5. :(

[Suhit Gupta]

Why do people think that songs record themselves? The costs of recording, mastering, mixing, printing CDs, and everything else in the process is not cheap. Music is a machine with many cogs, not just a singer with a microphone and a tape recorder. :wink:
OTOH, I feel that sometimes budding artists really get screwed by their agents/recording studios. It is probably only big names like that probably have a good percentage of returns worked out with the studios.

Suhit

[Jason Dunn]

OTOH, I feel that sometimes budding artists really get screwed by their agents/recording studios. It is probably only big names like that probably have a good percentage of returns worked out with the studios.

Sure, absolutely, but you have to remember it's a numbers game as well - let's say a studio signs ten new bands to a label, does albums and music videos for them all....and maybe one of those will make it. I'm sure there are some record excecs making too much money, but any independent artist will tell you that trying to break into the mainstream music market takes marketing muscle and lots of $$$ - the Internet didn't exactly "equalize" everything like people thought. ;-)

[Gary Sheynkman]

Sure it does. The internet provides an opportunity to sample the music so you can go and buy that CD/T-shirt/concert ticket ...kazaa is not wrong