Zune MVP Conference Call Notes: Video & Photo

[Jason Dunn]

I just got out of a Zune MVP conference call with some of the Zune team members, and have discovered a few interesting things about the new Zune devices and software that are worth sharing. Here's part two... <br /><br />The Zune v2 is a much better video player: it now supports h.264 and MPEG4 natively on the device, in addition to WMV. That's right, no more transcoding! I'm thrilled to see this direct support for more video codecs - WMV has been all but abandoned by Microsoft. All the momentum is behind h.264, so it's great that the Zune team realized it and stepped up with on-device support for these two popular video formats. <br /><br />Media Center owners rejoice: the Zune desktop software will convert DVR-MS files (Media Center TV recordings) to a Zune-friendly WMV file. The Zune is finally a first-class partner for your Media Center PC, no longer playing second fiddle to all those PlaysForSure devices out there. Unfortunately, there's still no support for Divx or Xvid on the device, or conversions via the desktop software. The Zune team members cited complexities in codecs and support headaches trying to support the mish-mash of Divx and Xvid codecs out there. To a certain degree that makes sense, but if Creative Labs and other vendors can support Divx on their devices, why can't the Zune? Divx in particular has a lot of great software tools that allow people to get their content into Divx format, so even if the desktop software supported basic transcoding, it would be a big help. <br /><div style="page-break-after: always;"><span style="display: none;"> </span></div><br />I also think about people with digital still cameras: the video files they take are typically in MJPEG format, and there's no support for that at all. Some newer cameras, from Casio for instance, encode video directly to Divx - all of that content can't play back on the Zune unless the user figures out their own solution. <br /><br />The screen resolution on the 80 GB Zune with it's 3.2 inch screen is 320 x 240 - I was desperately hoping for 640 x 480, but it seems not. The 4 GB and 8 GB Zunes are also 320 x 240, so you'll see incredibly crisp screens on the small Flash units, and a less-crisp experience on the 80 GB Zune. When you consider that the 80 GB Zune will likely be used for videos and photos much more than the smaller Zunes, the decision to put in a bigger screen but the same resolution is curious. <br /><br /><strong> Some bad news for you v1 30 GB Zune owners:</strong> due to limitations in &quot;the platform&quot; (the hardware), 30 GB Zunes will not have the ability to play back h.264 content, lossless WMA content, or MPEG4 content. The firmware upgrade will give 30 GB Zunes all of the other abilities of the new Zunes, but not the file support for those formats. <strong>UPDATE:</strong> Ok, I heard from Cesar Menendez, and the 30 GB Zunes <strong><em>will </em></strong>have lossless WMA support added! Good news.<br /><br />I was told that while 320 x 240 is the native playback resolution for video on the Zune, external video playback is 640 x 480. More importantly, videos in 640 x 480 format will not be transcoded by the desktop software - they are left at 640 x 480. I presume that this means the resolution of all transcoded video files will be 640 x 480, and that the Zune will just scale it down to 320 x 240 on the device. This seems almost too good to be true, so I'm slightly dubious about this until I see it for myself.<br /><br />I've griped before about the shoddy scaling of photos on the Zune, and the team was unable to answer my question about whether or not photo scaling from 640 x 480 down to 320 x 240 on-device has been improved. I also don't know the number of colours on the screen: will it be 68K like the the V1 Zunes, or 16.7 million colours like some of the newer players like the Creative Zen? I dearly hope it's 16.7 million colours - I'm tired of watching poor-quality video with colour banding on my Zune.

[David Tucker]

If I had to pick what was more important - 16.7 million colors or full VGA it would be, by FAR, 16.7 million colors. The color palette is much more important. Even on 3.5" screens of my past PDAs...I can't see the pixels without holding it up to my face. VGA would be killer but not doesn't kill my enthusiasm at all.

I can see the palette differences though.

[MarxMarvelous]

Ddi you ask about album art improvements? :)

[Jason Dunn]

Ddi you ask about album art improvements? :)

Hah! No, that's one of the many things I didn't ask. There are literally 50+ questions I have about the new Zunes, but I only had time for a few...but I'll keep digging to find out what I can. :D

[Jason Dunn]

If I had to pick what was more important - 16.7 million colors or full VGA it would be, by FAR, 16.7 million colors.

Yeah, I agree completely - I hate seeing the banding because of lack of colours. It's especially evident on skin tones.

[Rocco Augusto]

i wish they would have added FLAC or APE support for lossless. that is what i ripped everything in :)

i understand the new divx support, you have to license the divx codec but xvid is completely free and open source so there is no excuse on that front. i'm starting to get disappointed :(

[Jason Dunn]

really, no lossless playback for us early adopters?! blasphemy! :(

Check my update at the end of that paragrpah, Zune v1 DOES get lossless playback support. :D

[Rocco Augusto]

Check my update at the end of that paragrpah, Zune v1 DOES get lossless playback support. :D

yeah... i caught that after i posted. less blasphemes but still not as cool as FLAC support :)

[Jason Dunn]

less blasphemes but still not as cool as FLAC support :)

FLAC support? I haven't heard that requested...pretty much ever, at least not in these forums. Do you think it's really that important? I guess I don't know what the #1 lossless audio codec is - if it's FLAC, then the Zune should support FLAC.

[David Tucker]

I have a friend who said if Zune supported FLAC, he'd buy one right away.

[Jason Dunn]

I have a friend who said if Zune supported FLAC, he'd buy one right away.

Huh. How very interesting...well, there's also hope for Zune v3. :D

Does FLAC cost to license? The iPod doesn't support FLAC, does it?

[Rocco Augusto]

FLAC support? I haven't heard that requested...pretty much ever, at least not in these forums. Do you think it's really that important? I guess I don't know what the #1 lossless audio codec is - if it's FLAC, then the Zune should support FLAC.

it's only important because i have about 200 CD's that i ripped to FLAC. :rolleyes:

it's free and open source and got the job done. i guess ill have to look into WMA Lossless now. :(

i think you can get FLAC support on a couple players here and there. i'm not sure about the iPod though

[Darius Wey]

Some bad news for you v1 30 GB Zune owners: due to limitations in "the platform" (the hardware), 30 GB Zunes will not have the ability to play back h.264 content, lossless WMA content, or MPEG4 content. The firmware upgrade will give 30 GB Zunes all of the other abilities of the new Zunes, but not the file support for those formats. UPDATE: Ok, I heard from Cesar Menendez, and the 30 GB Zunes will have lossless WMA support added! Good news.

Ack! I was looking forward to native MPEG-4/h.264 support on the 30GB Zune. Guess there's always fine print with new firmware. :rolleyes:

Moving on to a different topic, is there any news on gapless playback? The support of gapless playback has been one of the iPod's biggest pros since late 2006. For the dance/electronic junkies like myself, being able to listen to a continuous mix without stops and starts is an absolute boon.

[enemes]

no news on gapless. no news == no feature. I'm pretty sure MS would not have a problem publicizing it if it were supported. No player ever did gapless than Rio Karma. A lot of Chinese/Korean players (Cowon, Meizu) claim to be near gapless. What they mean is that there's a short click. Really annoying!

[Sven Johannsen]

I have a little point on the TV support. The deal is that the new sync software supports DVR-MS transcoding. I noticed something odd on MSs Zune site though. It lists the feature as

Recorded television content to go [3]

and note 3 is

[3] Requires a PC running Windows Vista® Home Premium or Windows Vista Ultimate and an integrated or external TV tuner.

I don't do it, but doesn't the Zune software run on XP? If so why wouldn't it run on an XP based MCE and transcode the recorded TV? Is the note right and a lot of XP MCE owners are going to be pissed?

[Rocco Augusto]

For the dance/electronic junkies like myself, being able to listen to a continuous mix without stops and starts is an absolute boon.

i listen to a lot of drum and bass and one of my biggest pet peeves is listening to my friends mix CD as he ripped everything to individual tracks instead of one giant mp3 file. every time the track changes, there is a slight pause. its like nails on a chalk board! :mad:

[ale_ers]

[3] Requires a PC running Windows Vista® Home Premium or Windows Vista Ultimate and an integrated or external TV tuner.



I noticed that too. I am able to get XP MCE content on my zune now through 3rd party software, but I wonder what will happen w/ v2. Will it really only support Vista MCE? and if so, will my old 3rd party apps still work?

[Jason Dunn]

[3] Requires a PC running Windows Vista® Home Premium or Windows Vista Ultimate and an integrated or external TV tuner.

I have a question in to Cesar Menendez about this issue...I'll let you know what he says.

[Darius Wey]

its like nails on a chalk board! :mad:

Agreed on that analogy. ;)

My nano supports gapless, no problem. So I can't see why the Zune should exclude it. I'm leaning toward what enemes has said: no news, no feature. Unless, of course, Microsoft has implemented it but is being tight-lipped about it, which is a real shame because it's a huge feature that needs plenty of attention. If they want potential customers to pick up a Zune over an iPod this holiday season, they need to prove its worth by showing off its capabilities.

[snap]

I have a question in to Cesar Menendez about this issue...I'll let you know what he says.

Did anyone findout if the XP (not just Vista) Media Center PCs will be able to transfer recorded TV files to Zune?

[onlydarksets]

If I had to pick what was more important - 16.7 million colors or full VGA it would be, by FAR, 16.7 million colors. The color palette is much more important. Even on 3.5" screens of my past PDAs...I can't see the pixels without holding it up to my face. VGA would be killer but not doesn't kill my enthusiasm at all.

I can see the palette differences though.

Unless it does TV out at VGA. If not, then VGA is worthless, except for saving the transcoding time.

[Jason Dunn]

Did anyone findout if the XP (not just Vista) Media Center PCs will be able to transfer recorded TV files to Zune?

I did actually, and have been meaning to post it to the front page: it's Vista only, Windows XP will not be supported for the TV show sync. :( I'm baffled as to why, but there it is. I'll post on the front page in a couple of days along with some other wrap-up information I've discovered.

[onlydarksets]

I did actually, and have been meaning to post it to the front page: it's Vista only, Windows XP will not be supported for the TV show sync. :( I'm baffled as to why, but there it is. I'll post on the front page in a couple of days along with some other wrap-up information I've discovered.

Wow - that's a really bad decision. I think they are taking Apple's "control the end-to-end experience" a little too far...

[snap]

I did actually, and have been meaning to post it to the front page: it's Vista only, Windows XP will not be supported for the TV show sync. :( I'm baffled as to why, but there it is. I'll post on the front page in a couple of days along with some other wrap-up information I've discovered.


Darn, I wish XP Media Center editions were also supported. I know (and use) some other solutions to do this on XP, but would have loved to have a more integrated solution w/in the Zune software. I guess its something to "look forward" to if/when I upgrade to Vista:rolleyes:

[eufreka]

I have a little point on the TV support. The deal is that the new sync software supports DVR-MS transcoding. I noticed something odd on MSs Zune site though. It lists the feature as

Recorded television content to go [3]

and note 3 is

[3] Requires a PC running Windows Vista® Home Premium or Windows Vista Ultimate and an integrated or external TV tuner.

I don't do it, but doesn't the Zune software run on XP? If so why wouldn't it run on an XP based MCE and transcode the recorded TV? Is the note right and a lot of XP MCE owners are going to be pissed?

Well, I think you have to have Vista to do transcoding within the Zune software. However, I see my previously converted dvr-ms to wm files were "discovered" and available. So maybe it will be the same as it was...use something else to auto-transcode your dvr-ms into wm, and then drop them into a watched folder...then they will have to transcode again when you sync them to your device30...

I have to wait till I am home to test further...