To Push or not to Push

[Jerry Raia]

Last week I finally got Push Email working. I had to have my Exchange host, mailstreet, move my account to a server that had SP2 installed. I never really thought I would care about having Push Email. Now that I have had it for a week I find I really like it. What's funny also is that while I'm at my desk, my Q will tell me I have email before Outlook on my desktop even gets it. It also pushes everything in both directions. Contacts, Calendar, Tasks and Notes are all kept in sync. For those of you that have joined the Push Party what are your thoughts? For those that haven't yet do you want it?

[Pete Paxton]

If the dash lives up to my expectations, I will have it soon. Can't believe Tmo didn't ever release a rom update to give me push on my SDA.

[OSUKid7]

I've had it for a few months now and love it. Hosted Exchange was one of the best purchases I've made in awhile. Sure I probably don't need it, but the convenience factor of always having the latest information when you need it, and not having to remember to sync my Smartphone is incredible. For something like email, that I use extensively every day, the cost is definitely worthwhile.

[bshpmark]

Well, I guess I don't understand what all the hype about PUSH is. I have my email accounts on my SDA to check for new mail every few minutes. Sure, I don't always get emails the moment they are sent, but I do get them within a few minutes. Maybe if I had PUSH I sould really appreciate it. Can someone explain the benefits to me? Of course, if you do, the bug will probably bite me.

9 days to Dash.

[Jason Dunn]

I get a lot of email, so having my Smartphone pinging at me every few minutes is a distraction, and more irritating than anything else. I set it to sync every 30 minutes, and that's enough for me.

[sojourner753]

I get a lot of email, so having my Smartphone pinging at me every few minutes is a distraction, and more irritating than anything else. I set it to sync every 30 minutes, and that's enough for me.

Same here. 30 minutes seems to be sufficient for me.

[Jerry Raia]

I was of the same opinion as you both. Now that I actually have though I really like it. However my email volume is probably much less that yours. I can see how it would make you nuts.

[Rocco Augusto]

the past couple days i have been getting a TON of email so im not to sure how i feel about it anymore :)

if i was still working for cingular where i needed those emails ASAP, i would love it. but a lot of the emails can sit in my box for a couple hours

[Janak Parekh]

I was of the same opinion as you both. Now that I actually have though I really like it. However my email volume is probably much less that yours. I can see how it would make you nuts.
Well, what I do is to ignore it when appropriate. My phone buzzes for a different length of time for SMS or email as opposed to a phone call, so I can only pick up the device when necessary, without being distracted.

What I dislike about 30-minute sync intervals most is the latency. For example, if I'm on line at the post office or the bank, with push I can look at my email and see my exact current mailbox status. If, on the other hand, my phone last synced 25 minutes ago, I won't see the emails coming in since then. If anything, push helps with high email volumes in this case.

I actually use this low-latency aspect most when I leave home. I tend to go in late in the morning to avoid rush hour, but by having push, I can see if anything has cropped up, literally in a few seconds, and can make a phone call if necessary. That's faster than manually syncing.

In short, push rocks. :)

--janak

p.s. Jerry, Exchange ActiveSync doesn't sync Notes. So no Notes push. :(

[Jerry Raia]

p.s. Jerry, Exchange ActiveSync doesn't sync Notes. So no Notes push. :(

Darn, that was the one thing I hadn't tried. I just figured it would since now even tasks sync over the air. Why do they do this to us? :evil:

[ctmagnus]

p.s. Jerry, Exchange ActiveSync doesn't sync Notes. So no Notes push. :(

... Why do they do this to us? :evil:

My theory: Because notes are stored in the filesystem on the device end, same as mobile favorites and files (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/images/smiles/duh.gif). Everything that (currently) gets synced from the server (Calendar, Contacts, Tasks, Messages) is stored in databases. Server sync does not yet support file synching, so no Notes synching with a server yet.

[Jerry Raia]

That's just wrong! We should be able to sync the whole enchilada! :confused totally:

[Jason Dunn]

That's just wrong! We should be able to sync the whole enchilada! :confused totally:

I concur completely - whenever we have MVP meetings it's always brought up. If Windows Mobile devices are really about the extending the Outlook experience away from the desktop, it needs to be the WHOLE experience, not some truncated subset. :?

[Jerry Raia]

What responses do you get?

[Mike Temporale]

What responses do you get?

The best we can do is to tell you that we raised the issue and they listened. Unfortunately, due to the NDA we had to sign, we can't talk about Microsoft's plans.

[Mike Temporale]

Push is one of the things I've wanted to do for awhile. I just haven't decided what account I should push. Calendar is a no-brainer as I only have one of those, but I've got loads of email accounts, and 2 key ones that I always check on my device. So until I flip a coin and decide I'll have to live with an hourly pull on each account.

[Jason Dunn]

What responses do you get?

Honestly? I don't think most Microsoft people use Notes, or even Tasks, because if they did it would have been included in a the product a long time ago. :?

[Janak Parekh]

Darn, that was the one thing I hadn't tried. I just figured it would since now even tasks sync over the air. Why do they do this to us? :evil:
In addition to what everyone else said: I believe Notes is the unloved stepchild of Outlook/Exchange/Windows Mobile. The featureset (even on the desktop) hasn't been updated in years and is minimal at best (no category support!). As you know, there is no Notes sync on the Smartphone out-of-the-box. Even with Pocket PCs and AS 4.x, it's implemented using a legacy SSP (sync service provider), meaning that essentially AS 3.x code is being used to sync Notes, and it's largely there for backwards compatibility.

It's a pain, but even more so is the lack of file sync to an Exchange Server. If we had even that, I could replace Notes easily with Pocket Word, PhatNotes, etc.

Anyway, it's Yet Another Half-Baked Microsoft sync experience. :?

--janak

[Jerry Raia]

Yeah I have been using PhatNotes. Thanks for catching my mistake. :)

You might be happy to know that there is now category support. I'm running the beta of office and you can assign categories to notes. Categories in the new office now have colors you can assign to them. When you assign a category to the note, it becomes that color.

[sojourner753]

I was of the same opinion as you both. Now that I actually have though I really like it. However my email volume is probably much less that yours. I can see how it would make you nuts.
Well, what I do is to ignore it when appropriate. My phone buzzes for a different length of time for SMS or email as opposed to a phone call, so I can only pick up the device when necessary, without being distracted.



Yeah, thats a good idea except for me it becomes more of a distraction when I'm with other people. Especially in meetings.

My phone is buzzing for task reminders, buzzing for meeting reminders, and buzzing for email. Plus, people can hear it.

[Kris Kumar]

My phone is buzzing for task reminders, buzzing for meeting reminders, and buzzing for email. Plus, people can hear it.

Same here. The vibration is so powerful and so loud that it is a big distraction in a meeting.

Is there a way to reduce the duration of the vibration? Right now it is pretty long, at least for me it seems like it is long.

Regarding the push email. It rocks. It has had a noticeable impact on my 2125. I have to charge it every day and half, previously I could get two days easily. But as Jerry mentioned, I love the fact that my Smartphone gets the email even before my desktop. 8)

[Janak Parekh]

You might be happy to know that there is now category support. I'm running the beta of office and you can assign categories to notes. Categories in the new office now have colors you can assign to them. When you assign a category to the note, it becomes that color.
Only marginally so -- let's see if this is ever implemented in WM.

--janak

[Janak Parekh]

My phone is buzzing for task reminders, buzzing for meeting reminders, and buzzing for email. Plus, people can hear it.
Same here. The vibration is so powerful and so loud that it is a big distraction in a meeting.
8O The loudness of the vibration is, of course, a function of the device.

Is there a way to reduce the duration of the vibration? Right now it is pretty long, at least for me it seems like it is long.
The Treo's is pretty short, and I use that strategically. If I'm in a meeting, I'll ignore short buzzes and only pull out the unit for a long buzz (i.e. ring). Does this mean I don't immediately check reminders? Actually, yes, that's sometimes true. I'll pay that price, though, for the benefits.

Also, in Pocket PC, if you don't want to be buzzed every time an email comes in, turn off the device while you're in the Messaging applet with your Inbox open -- new email notifications will then not fire. Not sure if you can utilize the same trick on Smartphone.

--janak

[ctmagnus]

It's a pain, but even more so is the lack of file sync to an Exchange Server. If we had even that, I could replace Notes easily with Pocket Word, PhatNotes, etc.

PhatPad? PhatNotes still uses a (third-party) database to sync, not file-level synchronization.

[ctmagnus]

Is there a way to reduce the duration of the vibration? Right now it is pretty long, at least for me it seems like it is long.

I read on xda-developers of a registry hack to change the ring/vibration pattern/duration. But that was for Pocket PCs; I don't know if it will work on Smartphones.

[Janak Parekh]

PhatPad? PhatNotes still uses a (third-party) database to sync, not file-level synchronization.
Er, yes. PhatPad. ;)

--janak

[rkdiddy]

Can someone post a link of where I should point my IT people to enable push on our corporate emails. I sent in a request and they let me know that currently they only support the blackberry enterprise software. I would like to be able to point them to an informational site of what needs to be done with our exchange server to set this up.

I should have my i320 in a few days and I would like to get it set-up.

Thanks, Rick

[Tim Williamson]

Is there any way to get a Smartphone to sync both PIM and files without ever docking with a PC (after the initial Activesync setup)?

Just so I'm clear, hosted Exchange syncs everything except notes?

Does a hosted Exchange account allow you to copy your current desktop calendar to the server during initial setup?

Finally, is it possible to use hosted Exchange with a Gmail account and keep emails in sync?

TIA :)

[Janak Parekh]

Can someone post a link of where I should point my IT people to enable push on our corporate emails. I sent in a request and they let me know that currently they only support the blackberry enterprise software. I would like to be able to point them to an informational site of what needs to be done with our exchange server to set this up.
It's more accurate to say it should work if they haven't turned it off. Exchange ActiveSync is supported out-of-the-box in Exchange 2003, and Direct Push is automatically enabled with SP2. However, firewall settings may need to be tweaked, and Googling should provide some resources, such as this one (http://support.microsoft.com/kb/905013).

The biggest issue is getting HTTPS set up in Exchange, which is the preferred Exchange ActiveSync protocol. If it's not already set up, they may be reluctant to invest the manpower to do it (even though it's straightforward once you know how to do it).

--janak

[Janak Parekh]

Is there any way to get a Smartphone to sync both PIM and files without ever docking with a PC (after the initial Activesync setup)?
Do you mean physical dock? Of course, you can do all of it over Bluetooth.

Just so I'm clear, hosted Exchange syncs everything except notes?
All PIM items except Notes. To be precise, Exchange ActiveSync with WM5 and newer supports four sync types: email, calendar, contacts, and tasks. That's it. No files, no notes, no custom conduits.

Does a hosted Exchange account allow you to copy your current desktop calendar to the server during initial setup?
Once you set up Outlook with an Exchange Server, it should appear as a separate mailbox, to which items can be dragged.

Finally, is it possible to use hosted Exchange with a Gmail account and keep emails in sync?
I don't think so. You can forward Gmail to the Exchange mailbox, but it is its own email service.

--janak

[rlwoodruff]

I have used push on my Q but I've removed my mail from wireless sync b/c I often don't have my desktop / laptop on and therefore monitored by wireless sync. I found that, in such circumstances, I couldn't receive or send mail and I like to get and send in real time.

[rkdiddy]

Can someone post a link of where I should point my IT people to enable push on our corporate emails. I sent in a request and they let me know that currently they only support the blackberry enterprise software. I would like to be able to point them to an informational site of what needs to be done with our exchange server to set this up.
It's more accurate to say it should work if they haven't turned it off. Exchange ActiveSync is supported out-of-the-box in Exchange 2003, and Direct Push is automatically enabled with SP2. However, firewall settings may need to be tweaked, and Googling should provide some resources, such as this one (http://support.microsoft.com/kb/905013).

The biggest issue is getting HTTPS set up in Exchange, which is the preferred Exchange ActiveSync protocol. If it's not already set up, they may be reluctant to invest the manpower to do it (even though it's straightforward once you know how to do it).

--janak

Thank you for this info. I'm thinking the problem is webmail isn't accessible from outside the network. I have to VPN on to access the HTTPS webmail page. I don't really know a whole lot but I wanted to supply them with as much information about setting up the process or opening a port to make this happen as possible. You would think for a multi-million dollar company someone would know how to do this {sigh} :roll:

Thanks.

[Perry Reed]

I love push and I'll never go back! And I'll never ever EVER go back to POP3 email! Just thinking about trying to manage email across multiple PCs, PDAs, and web clients makes me shudder. I'm doomed to pay for hosted Exchange service from now on so I can have one mailbox with multiple ways of accessing it.

[Jerry Raia]

Well there is still IMAP. Just no Push.

[Tim Williamson]

Well there is still IMAP. Just no Push.

Does Gmail support IMAP?

When I get a Smartphone I might have to stick with the Gmail web interface since I really like using the "Labels" feature for categorizing my mail nowadays.

[Perry Reed]

Well there is still IMAP. Just no Push.

Ugh. I don't care for IMAP. Before I had tried it, I thought it would be the answer: a cheap, widely available server-based protocol.

But in reality it generally seems flaky and unstable, at least in the various XP and WM clients I've tried, and has some really annoying "features" like the way it handles deleting messages.

I'd love to see it improved because I think it still could be a great solution, but it needs some work and until it is improved I'm sticking with Exchange and MAPI.

[dlinker]

Can someone post a link of where I should point my IT people to enable push on our corporate emails. I sent in a request and they let me know that currently they only support the blackberry enterprise software. I would like to be able to point them to an informational site of what needs to be done with our exchange server to set this up.
It's more accurate to say it should work if they haven't turned it off. Exchange ActiveSync is supported out-of-the-box in Exchange 2003, and Direct Push is automatically enabled with SP2. However, firewall settings may need to be tweaked, and Googling should provide some resources, such as this one (http://support.microsoft.com/kb/905013).

The biggest issue is getting HTTPS set up in Exchange, which is the preferred Exchange ActiveSync protocol. If it's not already set up, they may be reluctant to invest the manpower to do it (even though it's straightforward once you know how to do it).

--janak

Thank you for this info. I'm thinking the problem is webmail isn't accessible from outside the network. I have to VPN on to access the HTTPS webmail page. I don't really know a whole lot but I wanted to supply them with as much information about setting up the process or opening a port to make this happen as possible. You would think for a multi-million dollar company someone would know how to do this {sigh} :roll:

Thanks.
It's not as simple as just turning on HTTPS. The big issue from a security perspective is allowing an incoming connection to the Exchange server from the Internet in the first place. Companies that require high security eg Financial Institutions, only allow incoming connections with a one time password - like SecureID tokens. This means no Microsoft Push Email. Even with an ISA server, you're still ultimately allowing anyone to make a connection into one of your most important servers - your Exchange server.

Blackberry makes an OUTward connection to the RIM servers, hence no one-time password needed.

Unlike MS Push, Blackberry will sync your Notes and also allows you to turn off alerts for email, but leave on alerts (either Vibrate, Sound or both) for Calls, Reminders and SMS. The only problem is that it isn't a Windows Mobile 5.0 device :-(

We've just run a pilot to evaluate MS Push against Blackberry. Unfortunately, for now, MS still comes up short. If you want Blackberry like functionality with a Windows Mobile device, and have security concerns with incoming connections, use Good Technologies - www.good.com

[sojourner753]

Finally, is it possible to use hosted Exchange with a Gmail account and keep emails in sync?
I don't think so. You can forward Gmail to the Exchange mailbox, but it is its own email service.

--janak

I don't know about others, but 4smartphone has an option where you can have it draw emails from a POP3 account. Thats what I'm currently doing. I does introduce about a minute delay between emails though but I can live with it.

[Tim Williamson]

Finally, is it possible to use hosted Exchange with a Gmail account and keep emails in sync?
I don't think so. You can forward Gmail to the Exchange mailbox, but it is its own email service.

--janak

I don't know about others, but 4smartphone has an option where you can have it draw emails from a POP3 account. Thats what I'm currently doing. I does introduce about a minute delay between emails though but I can live with it.

Does it sync email? For example, when you delete a message on your phone does it archive it in Gmail?

[sojourner753]

Finally, is it possible to use hosted Exchange with a Gmail account and keep emails in sync?
I don't think so. You can forward Gmail to the Exchange mailbox, but it is its own email service.

--janak

I don't know about others, but 4smartphone has an option where you can have it draw emails from a POP3 account. Thats what I'm currently doing. I does introduce about a minute delay between emails though but I can live with it.

Does it sync email? For example, when you delete a message on your phone does it archive it in Gmail?

I guess I misunderstood your original question. It actually pulls your email into exchange. It'll leave them in gmail if you wish, but its a one way.

[Janak Parekh]

Thank you for this info. I'm thinking the problem is webmail isn't accessible from outside the network. I have to VPN on to access the HTTPS webmail page.
Well, the Pocket PC does support various VPN technologies -- but I don't know how well that would work with Direct Push. I'm sorry, but this is something that requires research on the part of the IT staff. :(

You would think for a multi-million dollar company someone would know how to do this {sigh} :roll:
As dlinker implied, it's more of a "not wanting to" than "knowing how to". Opening up services requires careful research and deployment, and can get considerably tricky once security issues get involved.

--janak

[Janak Parekh]

Blackberry makes an OUTward connection to the RIM servers, hence no one-time password needed.
Of course, there's a security implication to this, too -- that you trust RIM's servers... but your point is certainly valid. We'll see how this scales up as Microsoft deploys it further.

--janak

[Jerry Raia]

I've noticed that I rarely bother with an ActiveSync on my PC anymore. Everything (except notes) just stays synced automatically.