CoPilot Live6 Impressions

[hotdram]

Just got my CoPilot Live6 in yesterday and used it on the way to my hunting lease.
Day 1 observations:
2 CDS and a basic instructions book. If you need in-depth help, you have to launch the program on the PC and go to the help menu.
Install was smooth on both the PC and the SmartPhone. You are asked what version of SmartPhone you have: WM2K3 or WM5.
First thing I did was select an area of map to download to the phone. This was pretty straight forward. However, I found out that the area my house is in is nowhere near being correct, not only are streets missing, some that they show are just plain wrong. It also tells me that my current location is Frisco Texas, when in fact it is McKinney Texas :(
After downloading the map to my phone I started the program on the phone. You are asked to register it. I did it automatically using the GPRS of the phone (you can do it other ways, but this was easiest). Registration completed without a hiccup.
It then found my SysOn Smart Blue Mini GPS receiver quickly and with no problems :) I played around with the menus for awhile to get used to them and then left to go sit in a tree in the woods.
While you are in "guidance" mode, there are 6 views:
Safety View - Large arrow for direction of next turn, distance to turn and name of road to turn on
Next Turn Map- Shows next turn
Where Am I Map - Shows GPS position on moving map
Next Stop Map - Shows next stop
3-D Map - 3-D view of route
Itinerary - Step by step text version of route

On the views (except Itinerary), the bottom portion of the screen cycles between the following information automatically:
ETA with Distance remaining and next turn information. Personally, I don't like that. It is distracting and I would rather see map down there.
When I get close to a turn, I would rather have the info pop up then, with a zoomed in map view of the turn. You can set the voice directions for the following notification distances from a turn: 2 miles, 1 mile, 3/10 mile and "Just ahead in X seconds", where "X" is selectable from 2-8 seconds.
In Safety mode, you can select to show the map when you are near a turn. You can also have some other information displayed in Safety mode, I choose "Nearest Crossroad", assuming it would give me the name of the next street that I was about to cross, but that was not the case. It gave me some names, but not all :(
The voices sound good, you have a choice of several languages and a male or female voice. However, the only directions you get are generic, like turn right, turn left, veer left or right etc with the distance: "Turn right in three tenths of a mile".
You do not get any street names in the voice part, that was a downer for me. (In Mapopolis, if you choose the Text to Speech voice you get street names etc, but if you choose the human voices, you only get the basics, turn right or left etc. I would rather listen to the computer generated text to speech voice and get all the info. rather than listen to a little nicer voice but only get half the info.)
When you are in a map view, the names of all side streets aren't displayed, just a few. I am used to the Mapopolis or Garmin displays. I want to see names (This could have been a function of the zoom factor, I played with that, but you had to zoom in so close to get street names to appear, I did not like it)
I have not played much with the PC interface, but it does not appear easy to transfer "favorites" (saved locations back and forth between the phone and the PC, nor does it appear easy to just send route information to the phone if you already have the map data in the phone that the route is on). I still need more time to play with the PC interface.
I have not played with the "live" stuff yet (position reporting via GPRS, traffic etc) and probably won't.
When I go to 3-D mode, the top portion of the screen is my "Start Page" background picture, as you can see here. Note the blue sky at the top:
http://www.riegerweb.com/Phone.jpg

Overall all, I am less than impressed :(
- I am very dissappointed that the maps are wrong in my area
- I would like to hear all of the directions with the voice commands (even if I have to listen to a text to speech voice)
- I do not like having the ETA/Distance to stop and next turn info keep cycling on the bottom of all map views
- Don't like how the 3-D map doesn't use all the screen
- Pc interface isn't as intuitive and easy to use as it could be (needs to be an easier way to transfer just waypoints and routes between the phone and PC)
- In general, I don't like the displays. The one I would use the most is the "Where am I" view. But as mentioned above, I want to see more street names on it and I don't want to see ETA/Dist and next turn info. cycling.

As of right now, it will be going back before the 30 day trial period is up :(
I really wanted to like this program, but so far I give it 4 out of 10.

[hotdram]

Day 2 Observations
When you are not navigating (ie, you have no destination selected) but you just want to see where you are in real time, you select the "Where am I now" view. However, the bottom of the screen constantly tells you "Input a destination for routing directions" (or something like that). That is wasted space. There is no mode for just "driving around". The modes are Navigation, Walking and Trip Planning.
There is no "Zoom Level" or scale when zooming in and out. I have no idea if I am looking at a 20 mile scale or a .2 mile scale.

There really is no transfer of waypoints saved while using the phone back to the PC. That stinks. Many times I am out somewhere, I mark a spot and then want to download it back to the PC (I use a Garmin GPSMAP60CS).

Checked the PDF Instruction manual that was loaded to the PC when I installed the software and this is what I found:
"IMPORTANT: Each data download overwrites the data that is
already on your Smartphone. If any data areas are already loaded
on your Smartphone, they will be overwritten by the new download.
Therefore, your download must include all areas that you wish to have
available on your Smartphone."
AND
"Check Download Favorites" to download your Favorites list from the Trip
Planner window on your desktop along with map data. These addresses will then be available as Favorites for trip entry on the Smartphone."

You can only check "Download Favorites when you send map data to the phone.
In other words, if I already have a map set stored on the phone, but want to just send Favorites, I have to resend all the map data I want with it. That stinks as well. I think ALK needs to do some work on the PC interface.

EDIT: Removed an inaccuracy in how I reported data can be downloaded to the phone. It is possible to download an area and a trip route at the same time. :)

Again, I hate to sound so negative, but for $200 I expected a lot better.

~Rob

[Rocco Augusto]

Again, I hate to sound so negative, but for $200 I expected a lot better...

and everyone ask why i have low expectations of all new haredware and software i buy ;) :)

[hotdram]

I would love to hear from anyone else that has used this. I want to hear that I am wrong on the operation of the program and PC interface or that there are ways to turn things off (like the cycling of info. across the bottom of the screen) or do things better.
One thing that can't be fixed though is the fact that the database is wrong/outdated (until ALK uses a different database or corrects theirs).
After 3 days of using the program, I could get used to all the little things if the map database were more accurate, but that is the main reason for my wanting to return it. Granted, I have only tried it in my little neck of the woods, but if it is wrong on streets that have been here for 6+ years, how can I trust it elsewhere? For now, I will stick with the Garmin GPSMAP60CS and the Garmin s/w (no s/w is perfect, but at least it uses the Nav Tech database and I have been to different parts of the country with it and trust it).

Developers, I think there is an opportunity out there to capture the Smartphone market. Make the program go through Active Sync for things like maps and waypoints and use the Nav Tech database.

~Rob

[dswartze]

I purchased the upgrade for my PocketPC (Verizon Wireless XV6600) back in November. I could not even get it to install on my < than 1yr PDA. I was told by Alk tech suport that Live 6 will not work on my XV6600 if I have too many apps installed. What!?

Anyways, here's my original blog entry (http://www.dandc.com/blog/?p=48).

[Pony99CA]

I would love to hear from anyone else that has used this. I want to hear that I am wrong on the operation of the program and PC interface or that there are ways to turn things off (like the cycling of info. across the bottom of the screen) or do things better.
I have the Pocket PC version of CoPilot Live 6, not the Smartphone version, so take my comments with a grain of salt.

First, the Pocket PC version has text-to-speech. It uses a program called Pocket Speech by Fonix to provide this. Maybe that's too big for Smartphones or they didn't license it. Does Mapopolis for the Smartphone do text-to-speech?

Second, regarding a "just driving" mode, CoPilot Live 5 used to have that (it was called Navigation Mode). I don't know why CoPilot Live 6 got rid of it. I assumed it was because they combined Guidance and Navigation modes into one, so that if no destination was chosen, it wouldn't prompt for one.

Third, regarding the ETA and distance to destination cycling, I don't recall that happening on my Pocket PC (although I haven't driven using CoPilot Live 6 yet, I did use CoPilot Live 5). Maybe the small screen of most Smartphones doesn't give them enough real estate to put both on at once.

Fourth, regarding the 3-D view showing sky, I agree that seems like a waste, but I've heard other GPS programs do it, too. Maybe it's to help remind users they're in the 3-D view and that the streets don't actually converge like that. Wasting screen space on a Smartphone is probably worse than doing it on a Pocket PC, though.

By the way, does Mapopolis have any 3-D views yet?

I do agree with your comments about making downloads easier. You shouldn't have to download everything just to make a small change. I downloaded the whole U.S. (and parts of Canada and Mexico) to my 2 GB SD card. The download size was over 940 MB. I wouldn't want to have to do that again just to update some favorites.

One thing that can't be fixed though is the fact that the database is wrong/outdated (until ALK uses a different database or corrects theirs).
They don't need to use a different database. While ALK doesn't use the NAVTEQ database, they create their own. They rely on users sending in GPS tracks and map updates. In fact, I spoke with the CEO of ALK at CTIA 2004 in San Francisco and he said he personally updates the maps himself!

When I bought Pocket CoPilot 2, the street I had lived on for six years wasn't correct, nor was my neighborhood, and a whole new subdivision was missing. I printed a map from Microsoft Streets & Trips out, drove around my neighborhood and surrounding neighborhoods jotting down street names and addresses, edited them into a bitmap copy of the S&T map and E-mailed that to ALK. The next edition of Pocket CoPilot had my changes in it.

My brother built a house in the middle of the Arizona desert. ALK's maps stopped about 1/2 mile down the road where the pavement stopped. After I drove to my brother's, I sent the GPS track to ALK along with his address. Those changes showed up in the next version (CoPilot Live 4).

So the problems can be fixed without switching databases. You just might have to help them a little.

Developers, I think there is an opportunity out there to capture the Smartphone market. Make the program go through Active Sync for things like maps and waypoints and use the Nav Tech database.
All transfers use ActiveSync. They may not provide an ActiveSync conduit, but they have to use it.

Of course, unless you're loading your data into your PDA's main memory, you're probably wasting time using ActiveSync to transfer anything. If you're putting your map data on a storage card, transfers should be much faster using a USB memory card reader/writer.

As for NAVTEQ (http://www.navteq.com) (not Nav Tech), I believe Mapopolis' Smartphone version uses their maps. However, I've spotted problems in some of their routes, too.

Steve

[hotdram]

Does Mapopolis for the Smartphone do text-to-speech?
Yes, it does text to speech, giving you turns and street names. You can select a human voice though, which just gives basic instructions, turn left, turn right etc.


Second, regarding a "just driving" mode, CoPilot Live 5 used to have that (it was called Navigation Mode). I don't know why CoPilot Live 6 got rid of it. I assumed it was because they combined Guidance and Navigation modes into one, so that if no destination was chosen, it wouldn't prompt for one.
That would be nice if they could add the Navigation mode back. Currently the modes are Guidance, Walking and Planning.


Third, regarding the ETA and distance to destination cycling, I don't recall that happening on my Pocket PC (although I haven't driven using CoPilot Live 6 yet, I did use CoPilot Live 5).
This can be useful, but the option to turn it off would be nice


By the way, does Mapopolis have any 3-D views yet?

No, they do not. Personally for me this is not a big deal. I prefer the 2-D display.



They don't need to use a different database. While ALK doesn't use the NAVTEQ database, they create their own. They rely on users sending in GPS tracks and map updates.....
When I bought Pocket CoPilot 2, the street I had lived on for six years wasn't correct, nor was my neighborhood, and a whole new subdivision was missing. I printed a map from Microsoft Streets & Trips out, drove around my neighborhood and surrounding neighborhoods jotting down street names and addresses, edited them into a bitmap copy of the S&T map and E-mailed that to ALK. The next edition of Pocket CoPilot had my changes in it.
My brother built a house in the middle of the Arizona desert. ALK's maps stopped about 1/2 mile down the road where the pavement stopped. After I drove to my brother's, I sent the GPS track to ALK along with his address. Those changes showed up in the next version (CoPilot Live 4).

So the problems can be fixed without switching databases. You just might have to help them a little.

That's what I don't understand. I don't mind helping them get their maps right, but when everywhere else I have looked (Google, Mapquest, Microsoft Streets and Trips, Garmin etc) has an established area correct, why shouldn't ALK? I am just concerned that their maps maybe more outdated than others. It is nice to see that they are responsive when users send them corrected data :) That being said, for $200 USD, I shouldn't have to do anything but load it and use it.



Developers, I think there is an opportunity out there to capture the Smartphone market. Make the program go through Active Sync for things like maps and waypoints and use the Nav Tech database.
All transfers use ActiveSync. They may not provide an ActiveSync conduit, but they have to use it.

I meant a conduit for waypoints etc.


As for NAVTEQ (http://www.navteq.com) (not Nav Tech), I believe Mapopolis' Smartphone version uses their maps. However, I've spotted problems in some of their routes, too.

What is the difference between Navtech and Navteq? I used to see "Navtech on board", but now all I see is "Navteq onboard". My Garmin City Select V5 says "Navtech Onboard", but the later Garmin City Select V6 says "Navteq Onboard". I agree, no mapping software is completely accurate. Just in my limited experience, I have had good luck with Navtech/Navteq. I used a very early version of Mapopolis on my Palm M505 that used (I believe) the Tiger database. That was pretty bad in my area.

~Rob

[Pony99CA]

They don't need to use a different database. While ALK doesn't use the NAVTEQ database, they create their own. They rely on users sending in GPS tracks and map updates.
That's what I don't understand. I don't mind helping them get their maps right, but when everywhere else I have looked (Google, Mapquest, Microsoft Streets and Trips, Garmin etc) has an established area correct, why shouldn't ALK? I am just concerned that their maps maybe more outdated than others.
I saw a presentation from NAVTEQ about how they build their databases. They use various sources, of course, but also send specially equipped cars out to capture data. I suspect ALK is a smaller company and can't afford to do that.

My guess (and it's only a guess) is that ALK started with Tiger (like everybody else) and built their own database up using input from truckers (you'll see they have software specific to truckers). After a while, they decided to branch into consumer GPS, but truckers don't go to most residential areas, so their databases are off there because they don't have data on new construction (new relative to when Tiger was created) -- unless users send it in.

However, ALK had invested a lot of money into gathering and formatting their data, and didn't want to have to rewrite their mapping code and pay TeleAtlas or NAVTEQ royalties. So it wouldn't surprise me if their data was out-of-date in some residential areas compared to companies that rent their mapping databases.

Those other companies you cited probably use NAVTEQ or TeleAtlas. Maybe they didn't have their own database already built up, so buying somebody else's maps was more cost effective.

That being said, for $200 USD, I shouldn't have to do anything but load it and use it.
As a consumer, I agree, but as a programmer, I can't imagine trying to gather that data and write such a complex program. Ask yourself if you could even map your city for $200. :-)

And you'll notice that NAVTEQ has a section on their Web site for sending updates. No system is going to be perfect; new roads are always being built, changes are being made, etc.


As for NAVTEQ (http://www.navteq.com) (not Nav Tech), I believe Mapopolis' Smartphone version uses their maps. However, I've spotted problems in some of their routes, too.

What is the difference between Navtech and Navteq? I used to see "Navtech on board", but now all I see is "Navteq onboard".
I don't know. I always thought it was NavTech, too, until I started working for a GPS company (http://www.mobilecrossing.com). Maybe they changed their name for legal reasons (trademark issues in other countries?). I noticed that navtech.com goes to navteq.com.

Steve

[encece]

Oh Dear. I get mine this week. I hope it works for my needs as I have not been able to get mapopolis to work on my SP5m.

[phut60]

I had a terrible time getting it to install as recommended on my K-JAM, finally just installed the software on my MiniSD card and it at least would operate, albeit VERY S-L-O-W-L-Y. I was headed to L.A. (from Palm Springs) to an organ concert at Cathedral with the largest pipe organ in the USA. This church was built in 193? and of course CoPilot could not find the street, knowing that the mistake must be mine I called the Support line (and for once they answered) the support staffer, looked and looked and finally agreed that the street was not in their database.

Built in the 30's about 10 miles west of downtown L.A., does not qualify as a 'new' street to me. So then I tried the address of the Pantages Theater on Hollywood Boulevard ( a xmas show) that address could not be found either. I have had earlier versions of CoPilot that would fail on occasion, but I believed their promo that the map data was 'updated'. These two above examples and two others in Palm Springs lead me to believe this new software is totally over complicated, and does not work about 80% of the time from my experience.

[hotdram]

...This church was built in 193? and of course CoPilot could not find the street, knowing that the mistake must be mine I called the Support line (and for once they answered) the support staffer, looked and looked and finally agreed that the street was not in their database.

Built in the 30's about 10 miles west of downtown L.A., does not qualify as a 'new' street to me. So then I tried the address of the Pantages Theater on Hollywood Boulevard ( a xmas show) that address could not be found either...

That is pretty discouraging. I was hoping that the database would be better because ALK makes software for commercial applications. But as a previous poster said, if they get their database info from truck drivers, then they don't use a lot of the side streets (but as was said, the highway system should be excellent). I rely on gps MOST when I am off of major highways, as those are marked pretty clearly in most cases.
I won't have time to travel to most of the places that I usually go during the 30 day trial period, but info like this will help me make my decision as whether to return it or not.

~Rob

[encece]

Based on this info....I placed a call and left a message to cancel my order. There is no other way on the website as far as I can tell. I am also not sure if the order was processed yet.

I also placed phone call in to TomTom that should be returned within one business day asking if they have US Maps for the Smartphone yet. They have them for the Palm, so I don't see why not but I'll be damned if you can find that info anywhere.

[hotdram]

I am going to deactivate mine tonight and send it back as per their instructions. All you do is deactivate it, and send it all back, with the deactivation code written on the form that is already included in the box.
I wish they had some sort or RMA system, I would rather they know it is coming back. (Maybe the de-activation code serves as a sort of RMA)
Anyhow, I purchased Mapopolis today. I will run the 4.64 Beta (found from GPSPASSION.COM in the Mapopolis forum).

~Rob

[hotdram]

Deactivated CoPilot over the phone. The phone displayed a deactivation code along with a website that I had to go to in order to complete deactivation. On that website you have to put in the 25 digit product ID and the deactivation code. S/W will be shipped back tomorrow. Kind of stinks how it takes 4-6 weeks after they receive it back for the refund to hit the card.

(Tried out Mapopolis today with RJShortcuts removed and the Auto-Start GPS option enabled. These cleared up any issues I was having before regarding the screen freezing up and BT connectivity while I was demo'ing the maps :) )

~Rob

[encece]

My order was sucessfully cancelled. I did place the call into TomTom and they never responded. When I called again I asked the girl to tell me if US maps are available for TomTom Mobile 5.

She said they dont have a Mobile 5 they only have a navigator 5.

When I told her that they do and I was looking at it on their website, she said that she still didnt believe me and that I should research it mor or go to BestBuy to see.

I asked her WHY would I need to research any more than on her site and on this call. She became frustrated and said a tech would get back to me which they still have not....because she is only a displach center. I asked her if she is only a displach center why would she claim she knew more than her website or techs? And that I had not received my call back in two days when I was promised a 24-hour call back.

She was exstremely uninformed and frustrating and I, at no fault of my own, made her extremely frustrated for no reason at all.

Conclusion:
TOMTOM's CUSTOMER SERVICE IS DUMBER THAN DUMB!

[hotdram]

Pretty disappointed with ALK's customer support. Sent them an email regarding a question about sending my s/w back on 1/3/06 and have heard nothing back from them (to date, 1/23/06)
I sent them the s/w back on 1/4/06 via FedEx. The s/w was signed for on 1/6/06. I received nothing from ALK to inform me that they had the software. I called them on 1/18/06, the person I spoke with said that they received it on 1/16/06. I asked why FedEx said it was signed for on 1/6/06. He told me the dock probably received it then, but they are "very busy" and it had just got checked in on the 16th. TEN DAYS????? That is not good, in my opinion. I already know it takes 4-6 weeks to get the refund (according to their website), but an email informing me they had received the product back and would start processing my refund would have been nice.

~Rob