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View Full Version : Laridian Releases Bible Software for the Smartphone


Jason Dunn
03-18-2005, 11:30 PM
<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.laridian.com/wms/default.asp' target='_blank'>http://www.laridian.com/wms/default.asp</a><br /><br /></div><i>"Powerful, affordable Bible software for your Windows Mobile™-based Smartphone. Choose from popular Bible translations, including the New International Version, New American Standard Bible and more! Available for immediate download."</i><br /><br /><img src="http://www.smartphonethoughts.com/images/screen_note_pocketbible_for_windows_mobile_smartphone.jpg" alt="User submitted image" title="User submitted image"/><br /><br />If you've ever wanted to have a good bible translation handy, this will be a great tool for you. Laridian makes excellent bible software for the Pocket PC, so I was pleased to see them port this to the Smartphone platform. We need all the top-quality software we can get! There's a free trial available, that's quite full-featured:<br /><br /><i>"The PocketBible Demo contains the entire King James Version New Testament, Psalms and Proverbs, and is free. There's no need to choose a Bible to go with the demo (in fact, the demo won't work with any of the full Bibles - it only works with its included Bible)."</i>

sharck
03-20-2005, 05:53 AM
If you previously purchased their PocketPC reader and bibles for it, you can't use them in the SmartPhone reader -- apparently you have to purchase new versions of the bibles that work with the SmartPhone reader.

It kind of frosts me to have to re-purchase the bibles I used to use on my PocketPC, but it seems that's what you have to do.

I was all set to use this over OliveTree, but now I think I'll have to re-evaluate my purchase decision -- OliveTree may be cheaper after all.

Jason Dunn
03-20-2005, 07:37 AM
If you previously purchased their PocketPC reader and bibles for it, you can't use them in the SmartPhone reader -- apparently you have to purchase new versions of the bibles that work with the SmartPhone reader.

Hmm - that doesn't seem very fair. I wonder if it's due to a licensing fee that Laridian has to pay? You'd think it would be more "per user" than "per installation". :?

stevew
03-20-2005, 01:52 PM
I can understand having to pay for both versions. It cost them money to develop for both smartphone and Pocket PC. In fact I have yet to see any software where you pay one price for both versions.

Ed Hansberry
03-20-2005, 03:05 PM
Hmm - that doesn't seem very fair. I wonder if it's due to a licensing fee that Laridian has to pay? You'd think it would be more "per user" than "per installation". :?
There is more info on this very issue at http://laridian.onlinesupportdesk.net/?_a=knowledgebase&amp;_j=questiondetails&amp;_i=916

sojourner753
03-20-2005, 06:19 PM
While it may be better to for me to have one set of books and pay for the different readers, I don't think its so wrong. Just consider that the "application" is the reader plus books. That way your just buying two applications.

This scheme would also be easier from a library standpoint. One set of books to manage and organize.

sharck
03-20-2005, 06:59 PM
I guess I can't fault them for wanting to make a buck -- my complaint was that they didn't mention that anywhere before I made the purchase of the reader -- I just expected it to work with the stuff that I had already purchased (and can no longer use, since my iPaq 3650 is pretty much toast at this point...)

At first I was pretty frosted and upset -- I'd been waiting for this for awhile and was disappointed. In the end, however, I have to admit, their software is much more polished and easier to use than OliveTree, so I'm kind of stuck paying for the updated versions.

Still it would be nice if they mentioned that you couldn't use the PPC bibles before they took your money

Steve

Jason Dunn
03-20-2005, 08:23 PM
I think this comes down to a lack of clarity on the difference between a PROGRAM and DATA. Developers charge for the development of programs, and in this case they license the DATA (the bibles). I was under the expectation that you'd buy the new PROGRAM and use the same DATA that you've already licensed...but it seems that not only is the data format different (which is very odd considering they're both Windows Mobile devices) but they also have licensing issues with the data files. This is kind of like saying you need to buy one bible for reading in your bedroom, and one for reading in your den...in this case the digital version is at a disadvantage.

Ultimately they should be up-front about this issue on the Smartphone product page.

crairdin
03-20-2005, 09:38 PM
Glad to see all the comments on our new Smartphone product. Let me see if I can clear up some of the issues.

First, all the Bible and reference book licenses we get from the copyright owners are "per device" not "per user". This is true of all licenses granted to all software developers by all content owners. I've never seen an exception to that.

If you have PocketBible running on your Pocket PC with the NIV and NASB, you couldn't legally copy the NIV or NASB onto your Smartphone and view it with PocketBible for WM Smartphone even if they were the same format. You have to have purchase one copy for each device you use it on. So if any of you complaining about the incompatibility between the formats are using PocketBible on both of your devices, then the cost would be no different even if the formats were compatible.

If you are no longer using your Pocket PC (or Palm for that matter) and thought you could just transfer the files, you at least have a case from a copyright perspective. In this case, though, the file formats are different.

The reason the file formats are different is complex, but here's the main one: The Smartphone doesn't have the same functionality to dispaly HTML text as the Pocket PC does. As a result we use our own HTML engine to render and display our text. The new format contains a compressed version of HTML that loads quicker than the old format. We can get away with this because we control the HTML rendering whereas before we did not. So we sacrifice some file size for a performance increase.

I was all set to use this over OliveTree, but now I think I'll have to re-evaluate my purchase decision -- OliveTree may be cheaper after all.

That may be true but make sure you evaluate the features of the two products. I think you'll be happy with PocketBible. And you're going to have to buy the Bibles from OliveTree anyway. You'll get a discount if you purchase from us as a returning customer.

And see this quote from another poster: "their software is much more polished and easier to use than OliveTree".

it would be nice if they mentioned that you couldn't use the PPC bibles before they took your money

This is a touchy issue. I'm sure you would have been LESS confused if we made a statement like that, but many of our customers (none of you here, I'm sure) get VERY confused if we add a lot of extra information. We have to be very careful how much we say.

You wouldn't believe some of the tech support issues already ("I just bought PocketBible for my Dell Axim and now there's an upgrade already...", "I can't get this to work on my Treo...", "The program's not working right on my AudioVox 6600 Pocket PC..."). We've found that we can't give people enough information to eliminate all confusion. We opt for giving them the essentials.

We didn't anticipate that many people would think their PPC Bibles would work with the Smartphone version, and so far there have been very few who did. The fact that the new Bibles require the Smartphone version of PocketBible is at least in the system requirements for those products at our site.

This is kind of like saying you need to buy one bible for reading in your bedroom, and one for reading in your den...in this case the digital version is at a disadvantage.

Remember we're driven by royalty and licensing considerations. If you have a complaint it's with the copyright owners not with us. Also, I don't think your analogy holds up. Your device is like a binding, not like a room. You can view your printed Bible in any room in your house. But you can't buy a leather-bound Bible from a Christian bookstore then expect them to give you a paperback and two hard-cover Bibles because you already own the leather-bound copy.

I hope this helps. We're always willing to talk about these issues. I remind you that in many cases we're only doing what we're licensed to do. I'll happily answer your questions here or by private email to [email protected].

Craig Rairdin
President
Laridian, Inc.

Mike Temporale
03-21-2005, 02:58 AM
...I hope this helps.

Thanks Craig, it always helps to hear things from the developers side. Given your explanation, the licensing fees certainly sound reasonable to me.

sojourner753
03-21-2005, 04:12 AM
The licensing does make sense.

But it is also important to make the policy clear. Especially when you have existing customers unclear about the status of their existing investment.

But I suppose now we know.

mbranscum
03-21-2005, 04:52 AM
Craig...

I believe your post was very helpful...I use your products on my PPC and plan on purchasing the smartphone product. I have tried the others and I think the Laridian prducts stand head and shoulders above the competition.

Thanks.

MobileRob
03-22-2005, 03:41 AM
I have used Laridian for years on my PPC and have found their support and products top of the line. The Smartphone version is no exception. It is very easy to use, polished, and well thought out. I have been using Olivetree since August in hopes of Laridian releasing this version and I have not been disappointed. They have done an excellent job!!!!

However...

I REALLY want to have access to the Life Application Study Bible Notes that are available on the PPC. Please Laridian, let us have this and your other GREAT study tools on the Smartphone!!

Rob. 8)

Qzic
03-22-2005, 04:17 AM
First, all the Bible and reference book licenses we get from the copyright owners are "per device" not "per user". This is true of all licenses granted to all software developers by all content owners. I've never seen an exception to that.

Hmmm, this issue forced me to respond. I too agree that there is a difference between content and application. When buying a new music player, I don't expect to be required to buy my music all over again.

If you look at many software licenses, they are slightly vague between per user vs. per device. A lot of end user commercial applications are both, allowing one to install an additional copy of the software on a laptop or home machine as long as the secondary machine is for the "primary user" of the first machine, and that the two copies are not used simultanously.

I have no problem paying for another application, but I refuse to pay for another license to the data. Copyright gives me the right to use content I have purchased in new format.

Jonathon Watkins
03-22-2005, 10:34 AM
Hmmm, this issue forced me to respond. I too agree that there is a difference between content and application. When buying a new music player, I don't expect to be required to buy my music all over again.

Exectly. The Bible is the data. I already own it electronically.

A lot of end user commercial applications are both, allowing one to install an additional copy of the software on a laptop or home machine as long as the secondary machine is for the "primary user" of the first machine, and that the two copies are not used simultanously.

This is a very common model. Microsoft, Adobe etc. all use this licence mechanism. It's reasonable and fair.

I have no problem paying for another application, but I refuse to pay for another license to the data. Copyright gives me the right to use content I have purchased in new format.

I have to say I agree with this. I have already bought the Message, the NIV and the LAB for PocketBible on the PPC. It is reasonable to expect to use them on a smartphone when I get one. I will pay for the program, but it is not fair to be asked to pay again for the data which I already own.

Jonathon Watkins
03-22-2005, 11:11 AM
Thanks for joining in Craig. It's appreciated.

First, all the Bible and reference book licenses we get from the copyright owners are "per device" not "per user". This is true of all licenses granted to all software developers by all content owners. I've never seen an exception to that.

I would actually argue that it's usually the other way around. Data is licensed for the user. This line or argument logically says that we will be made to buy the bibles and resources again when PPC2005 comes out - as it's a different 'device', let along operating system. :?

If you have PocketBible running on your Pocket PC with the NIV and NASB, you couldn't legally copy the NIV or NASB onto your Smartphone and view it with PocketBible for WM Smartphone even if they were the same format. You have to have purchase one copy for each device you use it on. So if any of you complaining about the incompatibility between the formats are using PocketBible on both of your devices, then the cost would be no different even if the formats were compatible.

Then how about changing the licensing requirements? They are out of line with other software, common sense and fairness. I am not buying my bibles again for the Smartphone platform. Full stop.

And see this quote from another poster: "their software is much more polished and easier to use than OliveTree".

Maybe, but I'm looking forward the PPC update that will support VGA. It's been a long while since the current version was released....

We didn't anticipate that many people would think their PPC Bibles would work with the Smartphone version, and so far there have been very few who did.

I think a more relevant question would be, why wouldn't it work? You have answered why, but you have previously hinted that the next version of the PPC version of PocketBible will do it's own HTML rendering. I therefore assume that this state of affairs is temporary until you release a new version of PocketBible, at which point the files will be interchangeable between platforms.

Your device is like a binding, not like a room. You can view your printed Bible in any room in your house. But you can't buy a leather-bound Bible from a Christian bookstore then expect them to give you a paperback and two hard-cover Bibles because you already own the leather-bound copy.

I would actually say that the program is the binder. The content (bible) can be transferred between devices. I am very happy to pay for the program. I am not happy to pay for the NIV, Message and the LAB again. I've already spent $65 just on these books, let alone on the PocketBible software that let you view them. I also see that Pocket e-sword are giving the Message away for free, just after I bought it from Laridian. Isn't the idea to make the Word more readily available? I fail to see how restricting the usage will help this.

I understand your points, but respectfully disagree with most of them. I will pay for PocketBible on Smartphone if I can use my existing paid bibles with it. If not, I will not buy PocketBible but will use one of the free alternatives on Smarphones. The current policy is not fair or reasonable.