Is the MPx a Smartphone Killer?

[David McNamee]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.pocketpcpassion.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=40551&ksp=747' target='_blank'>http://www.pocketpcpassion.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=40551&ksp=747</a><br /><br /></div>Dale (I get the cool stuff before you do) Coffing has posted some nice photos of the upcoming Motorola MPx. Scroll to the end of his post to see the MPx next to the MPx100 and the SPV e200. This is the first Pocket PC Phone Edition (PPC-PE) that actually looks something like a phone. If the MPx is as high-quality as we expect it to be, it will be a real threat to other PDA/phone combos like the Treo. This device will also blur the line between PPC-PE and Smartphone devices even further. Will the MPx and other PPC-PE devices that look and feel more like phones eliminate the market for Smartphones?<br /><br />I have to say that there is no way <i>any</i> PPC-PE will kill the Smartphone market. The reason is very simple: focus. Take a good look at the MPx. That device absolutely screams, "I'm for data entry." That's great, and it looks like it will be a great Pocket PC. But if you're like me and talk more than you type, you'll want a device that screams, "pick me up and start talking!" The Smartphones do just that. They are designed to be phones first, and there will always be a market for that. Someone at Motorola must agree with me, since they will be releasing <i>two</i> Smartphones around the same time they release the MPx.<br /><br />What do you think? Can the MPx lure you away from your Smartphone?

[encece]

Without holding the device...it's hard to say. But a smartphone sized PPCPE sure is tempting as there are NO limitations of the smartphone platform.

My main reason for switching from PPCPE to Smartphone was size in the first place (and I LOVE the smartphone). Now that PPCs are smaller...I may go for the better functionality. Maybe not the MPx...but a similar treo-style would sure be cool.

If there was a device that would lure me away from Smartphones....this would be it.

[possmann]

nope - I'd have to stay with the smartphone instead of switching to this device - again it's based on size for me and functionality for the size. I don't feel like I want to comprimise size to gain a phone...

but thats just me :D

[Arne Hess]

Can the MPx lure you away from your Smartphone?
No! It even can not lure me away from my Xda II. Don't know why everybody is so fascinated of it, I'm not impressed that much.

[Kris Kumar]

Size rules !!

Agreed, MPx has an amazing form factor. I was amazed when I held it for the first time. Didnt expect it to be so small and handy.

BUT I love the MPx 200/100 form factor better (lighter & smaller). Smartphones are phones first, and thats what I need. I have become good at T9, find it better than a keyboard.

Also I am guessing that future Smartphone hardware would be even smaller/lighter.

Kris

[JonnoB]

No! It even can not lure me away from my Xda II. Don't know why everybody is so fascinated of it, I'm not impressed that much.

Arne, I respect your opinion of the XDAII and know that you are a champion of the iMate line for good cause. The reason why many are so enamored with the MPx is probably the same reason I am enamored with it after having had the chance to hold it in my hand and learning more about the features it packs....
- integrated WiFi (for those times that GPRS speeds just does not cut it)
- integrated 1.3mp camera with flash (when lower-res camera phones without flash do not take good pictures, but you don't want to carry a nice dedicated digital camera)
- bluetooth to connect to GPS, headset or other device
- an available SDIO slot that is not taken up by a WiFi card, a BT card, or some other peripheral.
- a thumboard that is easy to use
- dynamic portrait and landscape displays
- small - it is more phone-size instead of PPC size.

Except for an extra 32mb of RAM, I don't know what else the XDA gives me other than a bigger device in my pocket.

[wizardmaster2k]

JonnoB

you said it! this looks like a killer devise.... I think this is perfect, has all the benifits of a ppc, w/o the limitations of a smartphone and has everything else the high end units have (minus RAM)

i will be waiting for this devise :)

[Mike Wagstaff]

Assuming that my network provider (Orange UK) offers the MPx, I'll switch from my E200 in a heartbeat for the following reasons:

* The PPC OS offers so much more freedom in the range and quality of available software
* The MPx is smaller and more practical than the XDA - i.e. it has a screen cover, so I can stuff it in my pocket without needing a case
* The E200's build quality hasn't impressed me (neither, come to mention it, did the original SPV or E-100)

In conclusion, I can't wait for the MPx to arrive. The Smartphone platform isn't a bad platform; it's just nowhere near as good as that of the Pocket PC for my liking.

[ShivShanks]

I personally like the MPx better. Simple reason: Touch screen and better data entry. I hope people realise that they very fact that we are discussing this means that there is problem with having such split personality OSes for mobile devices. There needs to be some sort of unification. Palm OS seems to have taken a much saner approach to keeping the core OS common. Microsoft has a problem at its hands. It isn't nice that the platform, developers and applications as split up in this way. Hopefully more phone centric options will be pushed into PPC and more PDA centric options like touchscreen would be pushed into WM and one day there could be hope of some sort of unification.

[David McNamee]

I personally like the MPx better. Simple reason: Touch screen and better data entry. I hope people realise that they very fact that we are discussing this means that there is problem with having such split personality OSes for mobile devices.

But isn't that the reason for the split? If your primary concern is with data entry, then the PPC-PE devices are right up your alley. But wouldn't a device geared toward voice communications be more appropriate if talking was more important to you than typing?

[ShivShanks]

I personally like the MPx better. Simple reason: Touch screen and better data entry. I hope people realise that they very fact that we are discussing this means that there is problem with having such split personality OSes for mobile devices.

But isn't that the reason for the split? If your primary concern is with data entry, then the PPC-PE devices are right up your alley. But wouldn't a device geared toward voice communications be more appropriate if talking was more important to you than typing?

No. Why should there be a split in the first place? Why can't we have our cake and eat it too? I never said that my primary concern is with data entry but rather *one* of my concerns. I want the device to have good voice capabilities when I want it *and* good data capabilities when I want it. I don't want to choose one over the other. The point is that if the device is claiming to be smart then it had better have the capability of a touch screen and stylus based input. Otherwise a large class of applications are just not possible or are awkward at best. Where does it say that to have a good voice centric focus you need to sacrifice the touchscreen and stylus based input. Why can't that *also* be be present? You should really take a look at what Palm is doing with its OS to see this. There are Palm based smartphones and they don't sacrifice the touchscreen and stylus. If you don't want to use that feature then don't.

The whole point is to provide better keypad/board integration for a more phone centric app. So why not release an extra API/Layer that allows you to add that for the phone based apps? Or why not just a WM software layer on PPC devices that allows you to use the WM apps on PPC provided you have the keypad with softkeys? I'm sorry but I'm just not convinced that this split is necessarily good in the long run. On the Palm OS smartphones you don't have a limited selection of apps to run since you can run all the existing Palm OS apps. Of course if you need better phone integration then the apps will be lesser but then thats the same for WM. At least in Palm's case you have an out in being able to use any old Palm application and take advantage of them for special purposes when you need more than a phone.

Ultimately in the future there is going to be no such thing as just a phone. When it is truly smart you are going to do so much more on it then just a phone. So then why artificially limit yourself by bounds based on how a device is predominantly used today? Please note that I have nothing against a one handed UI. That is good and can be added to something that has a touch screen and stylus.

[Malte]

Phone first, no doubt.

It's supposed to be mobile. Mobile as in usable in movement, not just movable. Try using a stylus on an on-screen keyboard while walking.

BTW: Isn't the estimated price on the MPx twice that of the MPx100? Isn't that a factor?

[ShivShanks]

Phone first, no doubt.

It's supposed to be mobile. Mobile as in usable in movement, not just movable. Try using a stylus on an on-screen keyboard while walking.

BTW: Isn't the estimated price on the MPx twice that of the MPx100? Isn't that a factor?

Where is it said that that you cannot be phone first even with a stylus and touchscreen? And why in the world would you want to use a stylus while walking? Why oh why cannot people get the simple fact that having a touchscreen and stylus doesn't mean you have to use it all the time :evil: ...

BTW just as awkward it is to use a stylus while walking, I consider using just up down keys for navigating a web page (when you have both hands free) equally awkward. If you had a stylus/touchscreen your brain can immediately grok which link to click with just a direct touch on it. That's much simpler than "down arrow", "down arrow", "down arrow","down arrow", "left arrow", "left arrow". You are not always going to be moving. Frequently (in fact more often than not) you'll be sitting somewhere wanting to check mail/news/weather, listen to music, play games and what-not on your phone. And in a number of those scenarios, having an optional touchscreen and stylus is much superior to being frustrated with that piddly keypad.

[Kris Kumar]

Touch Screen I can see being important for surfin..navigation apps etc.

But Keyboard I think is a temporary arrangement for Smart Devices. It is something that adds bulk to the device.

Voice Recognition is the way to go for a Smart Device. (Though it does have its flaw. You can not compose an email in a subway using VR.)

Its good for a device to be able to do everthing. Not to mention having a device like that is a major Social distraction. I mean I am always tempted to check email at lunch or partys. In between a conversation with someone. Not to mention your boss would expect better results.

But a line has to be drawn. Smartphone and Pocket PC Phone edition have nice demarcation lines. SP for the masses or voice centric usage. PPC-PE for corporate or data centric usage.

[Mike Temporale]

Palm OS seems to have taken a much saner approach to keeping the core OS common.

But Palm has decided that one version just isn't right. They annouced back in February that they are splitting the code to focus on different markets. So they are actually following Microsoft. The underlying code is the same (Windows CE); however the presentation layer varies based on the device type, Pocket PC or Smartphone.


The two versions of the operating system, Palm OS Cobalt and Palm OS Garnet, offer the Palm Powered platform new functionality without compromising the flexibility, ease-of-use and compatibility that are the hallmarks of Palm Powered mobile devices.

Palm OS Cobalt's emphasis on managing the security implications of network connectivity, while continuing to provide a scaleable platform that maintains the Palm OS tradition of flexibility and ease of use will help the Palm OS keep pace with the demands of enterprise IT."

Palm OS Garnet builds on the solid foundation of Palm OS 5 and incorporates new built-in technical features such as standard support for a broad range of screen resolutions, dynamic input area, improved network communication, and Bluetooth. Palm OS Garnet is designed to enable licensees to more efficiently bring Palm Powered handhelds and smartphones to market and reduce development costs.

The full press release can be found here (http://www.palmsource.com/press/2004/021004_cobalt.html)

[Phoenix]

Well this is an easy question...

Can the MPx lure me away?

YES!!!

(It already has).


The End.

[pt-1]

Can I hook up my GPS Unit to the MXP?
I have right now a SPV E100 and it's connected via the serial/usb Port at the bottom of my phone.


Cheers

PT-1

[ShivShanks]

But Palm has decided that one version just isn't right. They annouced back in February that they are splitting the code to focus on different markets. So they are actually following Microsoft. The underlying code is the same (Windows CE); however the presentation layer varies based on the device type, Pocket PC or Smartphone.


Actually what they are doing is quite different than that. They have differentiated between the old Palm OS 5 and the brand new Palm OS 6. Basically they didn't want to lose all the backwards compatibility with 68k apps on Palm OS 5 so they didn't retire it. Palm OS 6 is supposed to be their new fangled OS with multitasking etc with the new way of developing. You can think of the situation somewhat like Win9x vs WinNT that Microsoft had. Though more or less similar at the normal user level, Win9x offered better support for DOS based programs, just like OS 5 offers best support for 68K apps. But both these OSes are similar from a device capabilities point of view in that both of them require a touchscreen and stylus. They haven't made an OS for smartphones that eschews all that and is dumbed down interface with only keypad support. Instead Palm OS also *adds* support for keypads and doesn't subtract anything. IMHO you've got the whole Palm OS thing wrong.

What Microsoft has done is split the OS at a more fundamental level in terms of what apps you can write. We can continue debating whether that was good move or not, but the fact is that it is going to cause pain for developers wanting to easily port applications over from PPC, and it narrows the application availability for WM Smartphone terribly. It will take a couple of years to ramp to the same level of app support as PPC has now. By that time who knows Palm and Java might have captured the market. Look at the huge success of the Treo. Agreed that's a bit bulky but nothing precludes them from shrinking the size further.

[brntcrsp]

Can I hook up my GPS Unit to the MXP?
I have right now a SPV E100 and it's connected via the serial/usb Port at the bottom of my phone.


Cheers

PT-1

Only if the GPS manufacturer creates a way for the connection to physically match the MPx's pin connectors (through some sort of adapter), and if they provide drivers and software. :roll:

Best guess would be no, unless they are a very reputable brand that will put the resources into MPx compatibility.

[Mike Temporale]

IMHO you've got the whole Palm OS thing wrong.

That's very possible. By no means am I a Palm expert. I just remembered seeing something about them splitting the OS in what appeared to be a similar fashion.

[refnulf]

The only thing that's going to make me choose the mpx instead of the mpx220 is its size. I've always been a phone first person and I've never been much of a pocket pc fan (because of the size). But if it does enough as a phone, I might be tempted. Like I said, it's pretty small :)

There's not going to be a problem of having something like the XDA II in my pocket, mpx is way smaller and I guess that's the thing I love about it. Features are also important, but none of the new mpx?? phones are actually suffering from lack of features at the moment.

[encece]

But the MPx220 is probably smaller than the MPx.
So would you choose the PPCPE Phone or the Smartphone?

[refnulf]

Well, what I meant was. The mpx isn't going to be huge, it's a phone edition pocket pc. And there's no plan here, so I'm gonna be paying full price for it, makes changing phones a little hard. One good thing about living in Malaysia is that you get the phones here pretty fast. I guess that's because we don't have contract phones and plans and we gotta pay full price for the phones. So we get em pretty fast. And we get most of the phones that are out.

And the mpx does pack killer features in it. The mpx220 is definitely better than the e200 (which was the phone I was supposed to get in the first place) but I don't think that the difference of size between the mpx and the mpx220 is going to be that big. So it's between those 3 mpx phones. No real feature difference between the mpx220 and the mpx100 cept the candy bar/clam shell design.I have no idea when the mpx220 is going to be released. But I think the mpx and the mpx100 will be released earlier. So it'll probably be the mpx for me.

But you could say that nothing's been decided yet. I've never been a fan of clamshell phones. And the mpx100 looks good to me, the mpx220 till today I have no idea what its going to look like. The mpx looks great, that I can admit. And it's a completely different thing compared to the mpx100 and the mpx220. So it could be anything really. When the phones are going to be released, how much of $$$ I have on me when they are out, what my gf says about the phones, etc.

LOL, and what I hear from these here forums :)

[Mike Temporale]

I saw a post somewhere around the net on Friday that showed the MPx compared to a pack of smokes. They two are almost the same size. I don't know anything about smokes, so I can't tell you if it's a regular or king size pack of smokes.

[refnulf]

All I can say at the moment is, the more I look at the mpx and the more I read about it. The more I want it. LOL

I saw a post on the net as well, it was a comparison between a pack (20s) of marlboro lights and the mpx220. I think anyway, but I doubt it's gonna be that big.